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OT: Current Affairs and Politics

Mojo

Bench
Messages
3,431
First home buyers struggling to save a deposit will have f**k all super, and they are gonna need what ?

$50K=$80K ?

yeah, OK
It's ideological. LNP dont like super because they see it as employers providing for workers' retirement. ALP like super for the same reason. Personally, I see it as individuals providing for their own retirement and I think any sane government should incentivize super as much as possible.

I think the most practical way to free-up the housing market would be to remove penalties (eg; gift taxes and stamp duties etc.) to facilitate the inter-generational transfer of property asset wealth within families. Plenty of so called 'boomers' would love to downsize or realize their property values and provide funds to their kids, but state and fed governments take such a big slice of any such transaction as to make it unviable to do so. As it is, only property developers and investors are incentivized to capitalize on the appreciation of 'boomers' real estate holdings at the expense of the boomers kids.

PS: for clarity, I know there are no gift taxes per se in Australia but there are limits, social security implications and tax implications for the gift recipients.
 
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Mojo

Bench
Messages
3,431
I reckon there might be (in NSW)... I'm feeling more anti-Liberal than usual/three years ago - they're a mob of clowns! I think the downfall of Gladys falling on her own (pork) sword and subsequent replacement by this Dom character might have sapped some remaining good will from some who voted Liberal in recent times? And don't underestimate the effect of Scomo's perceived failure as a leader during the NSW bushfires and floods to have increased anti-Liberal sentiment in NSW seats.
Gladys falling on a pork sword is a very unpleasant mental image.
 

Mojo

Bench
Messages
3,431
These comments seem odd, considering that if you look at recent federal Royal Commissions, one party HAS weaponised them for political gain. The thing is that a sitting government controls the what when how of a RC, whereas a federal ICAC is an independent watchdog.

I might be bias and Put my hand up if anyone thinks that I’m looking at this through a lense of bias, but the terms of reference for these RC were classic political hit jobs by a PM on his opposition.



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The conventional wisdom is that you only call a Royal Commission if you already know what the findings will be.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,631
Mate what policy are u talking about
Sorry I thought you were across things

Labor's housing policy whereby they will pay 30%-40% (existing/new properties) of the home price ..... with some restrictions on overall value of the property (details of which I assume will be flexible and vary over time and per location, but I believe and example was given as Sydney up to $950k)

Do you think this has a similar effect of boosting property prices? ..... I believe its not even restricted to first home buyers
 

Mojo

Bench
Messages
3,431
Sorry I thought you were across things

Labor's housing policy whereby they will pay 30%-40% (existing/new properties) of the home price ..... with some restrictions on overall value of the property (details of which I assume will be flexible and vary over time and per location, but I believe and example was given as Sydney up to $950k)

Do you think this has a similar effect of boosting property prices? ..... I believe its not even restricted to first home buyers

It is restricted to first home buyers - Point 4 below. In fact, in order to qualify, you're not entitled if you own any real estate anywhere in the world. It's also, initially, limited to 10,000.

Am I eligible?​

You will be eligible for Labor’s Help to Buy program if you meet the following criteria:

  • Are an Australian citizen of at least 18 years of age.
  • Earn $90,000 or less per annum for individuals, or $120,000 or less per annum for couples.
  • Live in the purchased home as your principal place of residence.
  • Not own any other land or property – either in Australia or overseas.
  • Have saved the required minimum 2 per cent deposit of the home price and qualify (and can finance) the remainder of the purchase through a standard home loan with a participating lender.
  • Pay for any associated purchase costs like stamp duty, legal and bank fees. Homebuyers will also be responsible for ongoing property costs like rates, strata and any other bills.
I think it's very obvious that the LNP have come-up with their policy only in the last week merely in an effort to counter the ALP's policy. To me this demonstrates very clearly that the LNP are focused only on the politics rather than the actual issue of home affordability for first home buyers.

 
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strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,631

It is restricted to first home buyers - Point 4 below. In fact, you're not entitled if you own any real estate anywhere in the world.

Am I eligible?​

You will be eligible for Labor’s Help to Buy program if you meet the following criteria:

  • Are an Australian citizen of at least 18 years of age.
  • Earn $90,000 or less per annum for individuals, or $120,000 or less per annum for couples.
  • Live in the purchased home as your principal place of residence.
  • Not own any other land or property – either in Australia or overseas.
  • Have saved the required minimum 2 per cent deposit of the home price and qualify (and can finance) the remainder of the purchase through a standard home loan with a participating lender.
  • Pay for any associated purchase costs like stamp duty, legal and bank fees. Homebuyers will also be responsible for ongoing property costs like rates, strata and any other bills.
So what if you needed to move house? ..... Government gives you an initial hand - you may never really get far - you sell it and only get your own bit back - then you are on your own and in a struggle with the next house?
 

Mojo

Bench
Messages
3,431
So what if you needed to move house? ..... Government gives you an initial hand - you may never really get far - you sell it and only get your own bit back - then you are on your own and in a struggle with the next house?
yes... it's a first home buyers' assistance package.
 
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Angry_eel

First Grade
Messages
8,565
It's ideological. LNP dont like super because they see it as employers providing for workers' retirement. ALP like super for the same reason. Personally, I see it as individuals providing for their own retirement and I think any sane government should incentivize super as much as possible.

I think the most practical way to free-up the housing market would be to remove penalties (eg; gift taxes and stamp duties etc.) to facilitate the inter-generational transfer of property asset wealth within families. Plenty of so called 'boomers' would love to downsize or realize their property values and provide funds to their kids, but state and fed governments take such a big slice of any such transaction as to make it unviable to do so. As it is, only property developers and investors are incentivized to capitalize on the appreciation of 'boomers' real estate holdings at the expense of the boomers kids.

PS: for clarity, I know there are no gift taxes per se in Australia but there are limits, social security implications and tax implications for the gift recipients.
Without Super, Australian Stock and Bond markets would collapse. More money taken away from Super to put into property is to incentivize an unproductive asset over a productive one.

People keeping their money in gold and property is the sign of a 3rd world country.
 

Mojo

Bench
Messages
3,431
Without Super, Australian Stock and Bond markets would collapse. More money taken away from Super to put into property is to incentivize an unproductive asset over a productive one.

People keeping their money in gold and property is the sign of a 3rd world country.
Just to be sure ... we agree. I'm saying taking money out of super to subsidize property is not a good policy.
 

the phantom menace

First Grade
Messages
8,853
The conventional wisdom is that you only call a Royal Commission if you already know what the findings will be.
Or when you're dragged kicking and screaming and forced into it... like this government eventually was with aged care (by the ABC), and with the banking royal commission before that. Old mate here knew which party could be trusted to take meaningful actions after handing in his report:

1652676908525.png
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
78,631
So do you now understand that the government would be an equity partner and is not giving away anything ?
did I ever say otherwise?

all I am saying is that it is props up house prices just like giving people a chunk of their super will

the govt will own a piece of lots of people's houses ..... not sure how that will pan out over time
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
74,083
did I ever say otherwise?

all I am saying is that it is props up house prices just like giving people a chunk of their super will

the govt will own a piece of lots of people's houses ..... not sure how that will pan out over time
Well you did say "give you 40%", but anyway.

If you are saying that more people participating in the market will have an inflationary effect on prices, well yes. But using that logic it there would never be a good time to do that unless the arse fell out of the market.

Circling back and with the current Morrison thought bubble aside, what gives with the libs and their anti super stance ?



Don’t be fooled for a minute into thinking what is building into the biggest attack on superannuation for decades by the government has anything to do with policy.

If it did, Josh Frydenberg wouldn’t have leaked parts of the retirement incomes review, by a panel led by former senior Liberal staffer and Treasury official Mike Callaghan, to friendly journalists at the Financial Review and The Australian ahead of its release last week, or held a media event to discuss it 40 minutes before the release of the actual report on Friday.

Few people on any side come to the debate about superannuation with genuine disinterestedness. Some independent, highly regarded economists — Brendan Coates at the Grattan Institute, and now Saul Eslake — argue against further rises on the basis that they are unnecessary and will detract from wages growth.

Everyone else, pretty much, has a vested interest. And the interest doesn’t come bigger and uglier than that of the Liberal Party.

As Crikey has explained for a long time, the Liberals spent years trying to tilt the super system against industry super funds and in favour of retail funds that used to be owned by the big banks.

That was driven by the huge donations they received from the banks, and by a hatred of industry super funds.

But as their attempts to help retail super funds blew up in their faces, the Liberals’ hatred of industry super hardened into something even more toxic: a growing resentment of the entire superannuation system and the way that it reroutes power away from them and into the hands of large super funds — industry, retail, corporate and public sector.

The Liberals are terrified of the growing power of super funds and the way funds of all stripes have used it to pursue policies like net-zero emissions targets — contrary to its own business model of taking donations from large corporations in exchange for influencing policy.

The Liberal policy on retirement incomes is therefore pretty simple: kill super. It’s only a slightly more sophisticated version of the Nationals threatening to destabilise the entire financial system because banks are refusing to lend to their coal industry donor mates.


Not all super would be targeted, of course: every Liberal MP attacking super has a 15.4% super contribution rate. Don’t expect them to cut their super contributions back to 9.5% any time soon.

The Liberal plan to kill super has two parts: first, stop increases in compulsory super payments, possibly including the increase to 10% scheduled for just seven months’ time. Then, “open up” super so that members can draw down on their balances — which has proven highly successful in the context of the pandemic.

Both will be sold as being all about the interests of members. The removal of further increases in compulsory super will be all about wages growth and the good of the economy post-COVID. Opening up super will be sold as giving Australians greater freedom and allowing young Australians to get into the housing market.

In both cases, the arguments presented are missing key pieces of information. The wage stagnation that Australian workers have endured for years has nothing to do with super rises, but much to do with government policies. It is this government that has demonised unions, refused to support minimum pay rises, supported penalty rate cuts, turned a blind eye to the epidemic of wage theft for years, and slashed its one direct, powerful tool for increasing wages — public service pay rises.

The wage price index for the year to September was just 1.4%, a new record low. The Reserve Bank doesn’t expect wages growth to reach 2% again until at least 2023.

Halting further compulsory super rises won’t do a thing to restore even the tepid wages growth of recent years. Instead, it will effectively transfer income from workers’ retirement accounts to businesses, because there’ll be no magical compensating wage rise if super is kept at 9.5%.

If the government really cared about wages growth, it would dump its new (and mostly ignored by the media) linking of public sector wages to private sector growth, which guarantees overall wages growth will be significantly lower in coming years (the average difference between private and public wages growth since 2016 has been 0.3 points a year). And it would support minimum wage rises.

And helping Australians raid their super will just pump more money into the housing market, driving up prices accordingly — and leaving young people with no retirement incomes to show for it. But that would be good for News Corp, which owns 61% of realestate.com.au, and Nine Entertainment, which owns 58% of Domain.

If the government really wanted to improve affordability, it could axe negative gearing. But that assumes the Liberals are interested in policy outcomes. The only outcome the Liberals want is to destroy super.

The review also laments the cost of super tax concessions, which are “projected to grow as a proportion of GDP and exceed that of age pension expenditure by around 2050. This is due to earnings tax concessions. The increase in the SG rate to 12% will increase the fiscal cost of the system over the long term”.

The costliest ever change to super tax treatment was by Peter Costello in 2007, when he removed tax on super earnings for people over 60 and the superannuation surcharge. Mike Callaghan was Costello’s chief of staff when those changes commenced in 2007. Too bad Mike didn’t say something then.
 
Messages
15,639
First home buyers struggling to save a deposit will have f**k all super, and they are gonna need what ?

$50K=$80K ?

yeah, OK

It’s probably time we re-think the whole
residential property show here @Twizzle meister.

I’m talking shielding the market from speculation, limited foreign ownership, long term low interest govt loans and other solutions.

There’s no reason why the government can’t enter the construction business, provide nice homes and neighbourhoods in an decentralised and environmentally conscious way.

Death taxes on the very wealthy, corporates to pay their fair share and shift the burden to those who can afford it.

I just need Google etc behind me.

Ps re Rupert : Chomsky says there’s simply a shift in old media power to the newer internet czars.

He thinks the web hasn’t actually made the social changes people thought it might.
 
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Angry_eel

First Grade
Messages
8,565
Just to be sure ... we agree. I'm saying taking money out of super to subsidize property is not a good policy.
I know I was possitively commenting :)

This may be the dumbest thing by Scomo. Don't invest in technology, don't invest in up and coming businesses(despite LNP being business friendly) and don't do the hard work to make housing affordable but use people's retirement money to buy houses, great policy.
 
Messages
15,639
Ah death taxes. That will be popular.

Well I could introduce it once in office.

My program kicks off with $10m in property, then a modest 5% or something. Indexed.

If you’re worth $10m and don’t want to pay 5% extra to the country that gave you or helped you get your wealth, you’re a grub.

The beneficiaries will just have to make do lol
 
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