OT: Current Affairs and Politics

Discussion in 'Parramatta Eels' started by Gronk, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. Poupou Escobar

    Poupou Escobar Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    56,667
    Likes Received:
    8,014
    That's right, we all know how Maslow's heirarchy works. We have Google.

    Therefore we know security is near the bottom. Merkins without money are aware of their lack of individual security. This is why they cling to tribalism, and the proscriptive shared values of their tribe. These values are often at odds with the more modern value of tolerance.
     
  2. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    49,086
    Likes Received:
    7,378
    Rubbish. Middle America’s unemployment rate is like 3.5%. They have plenty of *security*, yet they are intolerant as f**k. Please go on.
     
  3. Poupou Escobar

    Poupou Escobar Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    56,667
    Likes Received:
    8,014
    Having a low paying job doesn't make anyone feel secure. Maybe they need to get off the opioids?
     
  4. Bandwagon

    Bandwagon Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    21,092
    Likes Received:
    6,963
    Yeah, I'd have to agree there, having a full time job that pays so well you need a second job to make ends meet aint exactly ideal.
     
  5. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    49,086
    Likes Received:
    7,378
  6. hindy111

    hindy111 Referee

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    28,623
    Likes Received:
    5,814
    Security would be owning your own home and having money up your sleeve.
    Or paying a home and a high paying job with a good education.
     
  7. Poupou Escobar

    Poupou Escobar Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    56,667
    Likes Received:
    8,014
    What's the difference? Losing what you've got hurts no matter who you are.

    Anyway, everyone in America thinks they're middle class. 'Working class' is shorthand for welfare class over there, and few people want to admit to being in that boat.
     
  8. Poupou Escobar

    Poupou Escobar Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    56,667
    Likes Received:
    8,014
    Nah, working in a steel mill or some shit means you're middle class, at least until the steel mill relocates to Bangladesh.
     
  9. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    49,086
    Likes Received:
    7,378
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Poupou Escobar

    Poupou Escobar Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    56,667
    Likes Received:
    8,014
    You're the one who claims middle America is doing as well as the coastal elites, citing articles in the NYT and WaPo. I disagree but even if your argument were true I showed how it doesn't matter.
     
  11. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    49,086
    Likes Received:
    7,378
    Ok let’s rewind a bit. Your hypothesis was that people who live on struggle street have good reason to have flexible values and tolerance. The two articles rebutted that premise and shows that the support for Trump runs deeper than your superficial driver being wealth.

    i say their intolerance is ingrained, reinforced and condoned by the republican party and their media arm, Murdoch. Trump indeed has motivated the long held undercurrent of bias hate and racism to move from the margins to the mainstream.

    The same premise can be applied here with the far right in politics, legitimising and normalising intolerances with gaslighting the masses, convincing them that their status is under threat.
     
  12. Gary Gutful

    Gary Gutful Immortal

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Messages:
    30,757
    Likes Received:
    8,688
    Definitely some truth in that.
     
  13. Bazal

    Bazal Post Whore

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    70,935
    Likes Received:
    16,927
    Yeah there is, but Gronk's assumption is that the intolerance comes purely from being intolerant, not from legitimate social factors.

    Which is hilariously incorrect
     
  14. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    49,086
    Likes Received:
    7,378
    Well instead of taking pot shots from the grassy knoll, perhaps you might expand ?
     
  15. Poupou Escobar

    Poupou Escobar Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    56,667
    Likes Received:
    8,014
    No I said the well-to-do display these traits.
    Except you've overlooked that this applies all over the world, and not just in the USA. Poorer people in every culture on the planet are tribal and conservative. The Republican party and Fox News have nothing to do with it.

    This stuff is all grass roots, with media organisations and political parties filling demand. It's childish to blame Rupert Murdoch or Donald Trump. This has been going on since long before either of them.
     
  16. Bazal

    Bazal Post Whore

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    70,935
    Likes Received:
    16,927
    I already have, pages ago.
     
  17. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    49,086
    Likes Received:
    7,378
    No surprise that we are going around in circles here. Ok so now the well-to-do have loose values. Who are the well-to-do by your reckoning from a socioeconomic standpoint and what evidence to you have that they have no conscience ?
    Trump was the context of this whole conversation. Don't @ me for bringing up him and the media that protect and fuel it.
     
  18. Poupou Escobar

    Poupou Escobar Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    56,667
    Likes Received:
    8,014
    It's a bit dishonest of you to imply I claimed they have no conscience. They just have more fluid values. The evidence is that progressive values are driven by the elites - members of the establishment have very different values today than they did 50, 100 or 200 years ago. Meanwhile poor people are very slow to change in this area.
    My point is that Trump is not the cause but another symptom. The bloke himself isn't even conservative. His values are as fluid as anybody's. However he wasn't elected for who he is but for what he promised.
     
  19. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    49,086
    Likes Received:
    7,378
    Just because you say it, does not make it fact. What core values do the well-to-do abandon, compared to the less well off ? And how does this link to the original concept of tolerance, with tolerance actually being a core value of many and promoted by the tribe ?
    Well we agree on that.
     
  20. Poupou Escobar

    Poupou Escobar Post Whore

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    56,667
    Likes Received:
    8,014
    Off the top of my head there's attitudes toward abortion and nationalism.
    Tolerance is absolutely not a tribal value. Judging and controlling the behaviour of its members is how the tribe maintains the distinction between the in group and out groups. This is even true of modern ideological 'tribes'. An example is 'hate speech'. Speaking hate against people based on characteristics like race and gender is unacceptable in some cases yet encouraged in others. There is little tolerance within the tribe for anyone questioning this inconsistency.
     

Share This Page