OT: Current Affairs and Politics

[bazza]

well Turnbull has gone the YES route probably out of spite of his ole mates.

Turnbull was part of the process to come up with the Voice concept in 2017

Dialogues | Referendum Council

www.referendumcouncil.org.au

 

[Chipmunk]

It’s not labor’s issue at all. You make it sound like this referendum is about short term politics. Do you think that Albo is taking this risk because he thinks it would be advantageous ? Let’s be serious, if it was all about political purchase, he’d give it a wide birth.

From time to time there are things that leaders feel that they need to do, or even attempt, even if it is ultimately to their personal detriment. He could have very easily dropped or deferred this for reasons. He leads in the polls and really doesn’t need this shit on his plate right now.

However like the NDIS and the Royal Commission into Institutional Child Sexual Assault with Gillard, somethings can’t be left undone.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

I was responding to a post that said it was Labor Yes, Liberal No, which I was trying to point out wasn't really the case. If it was, you'd think there would be more Yes votes.

Having said that, less people voted Labor than Liberal last election too if we're speaking strictly first preference (which is the equivalent in a referendum).

 

[Chipmunk]

well Turnbull has gone the YES route probably out of spite of his ole mates.

Turnbull was part of the process to come up with the Voice concept in 2017

Dialogues | Referendum Council

www.referendumcouncil.org.au

This is the actual real issue with politicians in my view, and the both Rudd and Turnbull are the prime examples of it.

The reality is that the vast majority of politicians don't actually honestly believe the majority of what their parties view is, but they propogate their cause anyway, because that is the team they have chosen. They do believe in some things that the party stands for, and generally the party they choose is the one that their values and beliefs align closer to. But essentially all politics is, is just a old school debating, where you pick a side and propagate a particular argument. The only issue is that once you pick a side, you can't really join the opposite side (although some do).

In NRL terms, politicians are no different than NRL footballers. An NRL footballer is part of the team and is generally passionate to do the best to make his team win. But once he leaves and joins a new club, he doesn't care about the previous team, and he only cares about the new team and their fortunes.

Politics is just another job after all.

 

[TheRam]

If only Albanese could be as precise and succinct as this. It really is that simple.
He has been appalling at selling the Yes campaign.

For the record, I have no qualms in voting Yes, and will be.

The day this proposed referendum turned to shite was the day Dutton turned it political and made it an us vs them issue, not a "Voice" issue. Basically, Labor Yes and Coalition No.
That is what is dividing the nation at the moment.

That's one way to look at it.

The other way is the coalition finally realized that they are the opposition and don't need to be in lockstep with everything the Labour Government is into, which by the way was their demise in the last election. Believe it or not but there are people out there and millions of them that don't believe in what the Labour party stands for and if the Liberal Party ever really takes that to heart and behaves like it, that will be the day that the Liberal Party will find themselves back in office and stay there for a very, very long time.

Also what hasn't helped the treasonous and evil YES vote is every time more details about it go public. Yep you're right though Gronks bulls*t generalising statement post could/would have fool everyone, but once you get into it and heaven forbid we ask and get details on a referendum pertaining to the Constitution, the full ramifications and obscenity of it all get exposed. Exposed so much so that even opposing Aboriginal tribes get stuck into each other jostling for their chunk of power. When a hard core antagonist and Aboriginal man like Anthony Mundine is vehemently opposed to it you have to sit and wonder.

You and your YES vote mates may say that the details are all lies, but a hell of a lot of the public don't seem to think so. Lies are easy to disprove. A labour Government that has virtually all the budget for this vote, promoting the YES vote and still can't disprove and clearly give the real details of what a YES vote would mean, only strengthens the NO vote who can. Cockroaches love the dark. The light to them is like holy water to a Vampire. Which is what a YES vote would do to our great country, suck the life blood right out of it for good.

Like I said before, this is not a good idea. It is racist and divisive and will only lead to inequality and misery for most Australians including Aboriginals. It comes straight out of the Cloward and Piven strategy handbook and the globalist agenda to destroy the west and setup Global Governance. Strong sovereign nations would never secede their power to an International body, but one that is weak and internally at odds with itself, well they would.

 

[TheRam]

Marxism is evil. I'd much prefer Ramism.

Ramism is the best.

Abundance for all and two scoops of ice cream on Sundays. Not to mention a Bones On Bones chapter in every neighbourhood.

Life couldn't get any better, could it?

 

[T.S Quint]

Depends on what kind of ice cream it is.

 

[TheRam]

It’s not labor’s issue at all. You make it sound like this referendum is about short term politics. Do you think that Albo is taking this risk because he thinks it would be advantageous ? Let’s be serious, if it was all about political purchase, he’d give it a wide birth.

From time to time there are things that leaders feel that they need to do, or even attempt, even if it is ultimately to their personal detriment. He could have very easily dropped or deferred this for reasons. He leads in the polls and really doesn’t need this shit on his plate right now.

However like the NDIS and the Royal Commission into Institutional Child Sexual Assault with Gillard, somethings can’t be left undone.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

Hahaha....and you think that each way Albo is this kind of man?

Mate Albo has wanted at treaty since he was a young man in his twenties. This is just step to getting there. He is in the camp that all of Australia is Aboriginal land and was stolen by European settlement.

My God it is so easy now to see how Germany the most progressive country in Europe at the time allowed a monster to take them to war and commit all the heinous crimes they did all in the name of a better, stronger, unified Europe. People that can't or won't believe that evil exists and always seeks more power and that it could never happen to them are the reason evil prospers and then it is left for the rest of us to clean up their mess, usually with all our lives.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Ramism is the best.

Abundance for all and two scoops of ice cream on Sundays. Not to mention a Bones On Bones chapter in every neighbourhood.

Life couldn't get any better, could it?

What if I want ice cream on Saturdays FFS!

 

[bazza]

Hahaha....and you think that each way Albo is this kind of man?

Mate Albo has wanted at treaty since he was a young man in his twenties. This is just step to getting there. He is in the camp that all of Australia is Aboriginal land and was stolen by European settlement.

My God it is so easy now to see how Germany the most progressive country in Europe at the time allowed a monster to take them to war and commit all the heinous crimes they did all in the name of a better, stronger, unified Europe. People that can't or won't believe that evil exists and always seeks more power and that it could never happen to them are the reason evil prospers and then it is left for the rest of us to clean up their mess, usually with all our lives.

the totalitarians were supposed to take over during covid

 

[TheRam]

What if I want ice cream on Saturdays FFS!

Come on now, only one scoop on Saturdays. Our Communist comrades wouldn't be happy otherwise would they now?

 

[TheRam]

the totalitarians were supposed to take over during covid

They already have, otherwise they wouldn't of done what they did ffs!

 

[Gronk]

When a hard core antagonist and Aboriginal man like Anthony Mundine is vehemently opposed to it you have to sit and wonder.

Dude research.

Anthony Mundine has called for NO - as has Michael Mansell - because they claim that constitutional recognition DOES NOT GO FAR ENOUGH and they want a treaty.

This article goes back to 2014

We Need Aboriginal Sovereignty Not Constitutional Recognition

Many indigenous leaders believe constitutional recognition will cause divide amongst Australia's First Peoples and provide no real improvements for indigenous communities.

www.vice.com

This article is from Dec 2022.

“The Weakest Proposal for the Advancement of Aboriginal People”: Michael Mansell on the Voice

Palawa lawyer Michael Mansell considers the Voice to Parliament will have a negative effect on Aboriginal advancement and that allocated Aboriginal Senate seats are a way forward.

www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au

Lidia Thorpe wants it call off - because she also wants a treaty.

Lidia Thorpe says voice referendum should be called off and attacks ‘powerless advisory body’

Senator criticises push to enshrine an Indigenous voice to parliament in the constitution, saying it is an ‘insult’ to First Nations people’s intelligence

www.theguardian.com

Both Lidia Thorpe and Anthony Mundine are part of what they call the Blak Sovereign Movement.

The Blak Sovereign Movement have said No to the Voice. Here's what they want instead

Senator Lidia Thorpe and a group of First Nations representatives from around the continent called for more concrete actions for Blak empowerment.

www.sbs.com.au

 

[TheRam]

Dude research.

Anthony Mundine has called for NO - as has Michael Mansell - because they claim that constitutional recognition DOES NOT GO FAR ENOUGH and they want a treaty.

This article goes back to 2014

We Need Aboriginal Sovereignty Not Constitutional Recognition

Many indigenous leaders believe constitutional recognition will cause divide amongst Australia's First Peoples and provide no real improvements for indigenous communities.

www.vice.com

This article is from Dec 2022.

“The Weakest Proposal for the Advancement of Aboriginal People”: Michael Mansell on the Voice

Palawa lawyer Michael Mansell considers the Voice to Parliament will have a negative effect on Aboriginal advancement and that allocated Aboriginal Senate seats are a way forward.

www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au

Lidia Thorpe wants it call off - because she also wants a treaty.

Lidia Thorpe says voice referendum should be called off and attacks ‘powerless advisory body’

Senator criticises push to enshrine an Indigenous voice to parliament in the constitution, saying it is an ‘insult’ to First Nations people’s intelligence

www.theguardian.com

Both Lidia Thorpe and Anthony Mundine are part of what they call the Blak Sovereign Movement.

The Blak Sovereign Movement have said No to the Voice. Here's what they want instead

Senator Lidia Thorpe and a group of First Nations representatives from around the continent called for more concrete actions for Blak empowerment.

www.sbs.com.au

Well I don't follow the guy, so I wouldn't know what else he stands for. I just saw him say he was totally against it because it would harm aboriginals not help them and I agree with that statement.

Now if he wants a treaty, then he can go get f**ked on that.

 

[Gronk]

Best not to use Mundine (both of them) as what Indigenous people want and think.

Good bloke Ernie Dingo has a lot to say in this thread and happily engages with even the most cranky old white fellas.

 

[TheRam]

Best not to use Mundine (both of them) as what Indigenous people want and think.

Good bloke Ernie Dingo has a lot to say in this thread and happily engages with even the most cranky old white fellas.

He is a joke and a traitor in my opinion to all Australians. He has a lot of hate towards the white fella.

 

[TheRam]

@Gronk If you really want to know what the Globalist want to do to us then look no further then this segment from the Alex Jones Show today. Especially at the 16th minute mark at an EU presentation. Hard to deny or obfuscate what she is saying. She literally states in just over 2 mins the evil that is coming for us by 2030.

If you even begin to dismiss or defend her, you are a clown that deserves everything you get or are just plain evil yourself.

For those who want to actually learn something and don't fear knowledge or truth, then the whole thing will blow your minds. The bald professor lays out the whole plan that has thus far transpired and what they will be doing in the not to distant future. Remember people or look up who(what) DARPA is.

https://www.banned.video/watch?id=64f8fd73edc7d9b0f2161de2

 

[TheRam]

And for those that couldn't be bothered going to the 16th min, Here it is direct.

Pandemic Treaty Will Enable WHO To Seize Jurisdiction Over Everything In The World - Wide Awake Media

Dr. Meryl Nass explains how the WHO's proposed pandemic treaty will enable the WHO "to take over jurisdiction of everything in the world by saying that climate change, animals, plants, water systems [and] ecosystems are all central to health". In addition to that, it will remove human rights...

wide-awake-media.com

 

[Gronk]

OPINION: What is the real question at the heart of the Voice referendum?

These national opinion polls inspire nerves and anxiety because it forces the country take an honest look at itself, writes Ian Hamm.

www.sbs.com.au

There's differing positions in our community, and across the country, on what the Voice referendum is truly about.

To get a better idea, let's first discuss what it's not about.

It's not about sovereignty (or ceding it). Nor is it about Bla(c)k advocacy.

It's not about extra chambers of parliament, who MPs represent or endless High Court litigation.

It's not about costs, the finer points of the constitution and it's definitely not about endless rice pudding.

It relates to some of these matters, but none of them are what the referendum is truly about.

Who are we?​

I'll speak simply, because I'm a simple bloke. I think most Australians are, even though we like to project that we are a sophisticated and worldly bunch. We like things simply put; it clears the BS.

Firstly, what is a referendum?

There's plenty of technical details that I’ll let the experts and constitutional lawyers explain. But in the Australian context, a referendum is a rare and uncomfortable moment.

Why? Because it’s a moment that makes us ask 'Who are we really? What do we really stand for?'

It makes us nervous because, deep down, we know these real underlying questions of referenda are not something we can hide or run away from.

Nowhere to hide​

Case in point – the 1967 referendum. An obvious example, but it’s probably the best example of a us being posed a real underlying question about who we are.

On the surface, two questions were posed: whether Aborigines should be counted in the reckoning of the population (the census); and whether the Commonwealth should be able to make laws in relation to Aborigines.

But these weren’t the real questions that Australia had to confront.

Given the well-known and appalling history of Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal relations, Australia had to ask itself the real questions: Do Aboriginal people belong in this country? Do they have a place in the future of this nation?

No qualifiers, no detail, no ‘what if’ implications of what might occur. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

Only Yes or No.

And Australia said Yes.

The real question​

What does this mean for the referendum of 2023?

It means looking beyond all the noise, the leaders, the lawyers, the experts and the commentators and getting to what the ordinary punter wants to know: what is this really about? What is the real underlying question?

Again, we know the surface questions being asked: whether there should be an Aboriginal voice that will advise parliament and government, the details of which parliament will work out.

But the real questions are these: should Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people be able to speak about the things that affect them? Or should we maintain the silence of the blacks?

Tough, uncomfortable, confronting stuff: nowhere to run and nowhere to hide.

Australia, our nation, our country, and each of us as voters, stand naked in front of the mirror of truth, forced to look at our reflection. Some are trying hide under the deceptive cloak of ‘more detail’, or fog it up with the hot breath of litigation, or blind its gaze by throwing a blanket of ‘treaty or nothing’ over it.

But in the end there's just a single question burning in our national and individual souls.

Should Indigenous people be able to speak: yes or no?

Why a Voice at all?​

Most Australians know of the appalling life measures for Aboriginal people: shorter lives, poorer health, greater poverty, inequality before the law.

But many Australians don't understand why it is so.

One of the main reasons is that parliaments, governments, ministers and bureaucracies can sometimes make really rubbish decisions, and they do so without taking the time to talk with us. They make decisions about us, without bothering to talk to us.

Would any other part of Australian society tolerate this? Probably (and hopefully) not. They would be outraged and demand the right to be heard.

And yet, this situation has continually occurred when it's Aboriginal people.

Imagine if they did talk with and listen to us though – we may find that government makes better decisions that contribute to improvements in our lives.

Giving voice to Aboriginal dreams​

Our peak Aboriginal bodies (NACCHO, SNAICC, NAILS) are fantastic, but they don’t pick up issues or concerns beyond their remit – and nor should they. They have enough to do without also having to be representatives of broadly everything.

This is what the Voice is for: a mechanism to articulate the things that ordinary Aboriginal people want to talk about, beyond gaps and deficits.

It will allow us to talk about everything beautiful about being Aboriginal; what our hopes, dreams, and aspirations are; what we can contribute to the nation and most importantly, what parliament and government can do to support us make all these things a reality.

 

[TheRam]

The full presentation.

 

[Gronk]

And for those that couldn't be bothered going to the 16th min, Here it is direct.

Pandemic Treaty Will Enable WHO To Seize Jurisdiction Over Everything In The World - Wide Awake Media

Dr. Meryl Nass explains how the WHO's proposed pandemic treaty will enable the WHO "to take over jurisdiction of everything in the world by saying that climate change, animals, plants, water systems [and] ecosystems are all central to health". In addition to that, it will remove human rights...

wide-awake-media.com

Who is she mate ? You're suggesting that she writes policy for WHO ?

Maine Physician Suspended for COVID Misinformation

Licensing agency says Meryl Nass must undergo neuropsych exam for her claims about COVID vaccine

www.medpagetoday.com

Group connected to RFK Jr. is bankrolling Maine doctor’s fight to get her license back

Meryl Nass is welcoming the publicity and even claims victory over turning her disciplinary hearings into a "spectacle."

www.bangordailynews.com