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OT: Current Affairs and Politics

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,910
What about these little facts on this other little topic that you guys hate so much.

Oh sure attack the messenger but don't address the points that they bring to light.

 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,910
It would be nice if the merkin in the video who seeks that we are all equal, could deal with the facts that there ARE disparities in life expectancy, education, incarceration, health and well being, employment etc and that it is NOT a level playing field.


Yes I agree, so lets level it and get them of crippling welfare.

Lets give them a chance ffs! Why do you want them to be like children on subsidies and welfare for all their lives?

You wouldn't want that for your children would you? A life on the dole forever? What sort of life would that be? Or would you?

Why do you hate aboriginals so much. What did they ever do to you? They deserve better and to be treated as fairly as the rest of us.

Shame on you!
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
53,028
Yes I agree, so lets level it and get them of crippling welfare.

Lets give them a chance ffs! Why do you want them to be like children on subsidies and welfare for all their lives?

You wouldn't want that for your children would you? A life on the dole forever? What sort of life would that be? Or would you?

Why do you hate aboriginals so much. What did they ever do to you? They deserve better and to be treated as fairly as the rest of us.

Shame on you!
That's a fairly big shift you've made.

So you acknowledge your previous comments where you suggested that the indigenous population are 'by and large' middle class and no different to whities, do you?

You were wrong about something so simple and easily verified, weren't you?
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
53,028
Lets give them a chance ffs! Why do you want them to be like children on subsidies and welfare for all their lives?

You wouldn't want that for your children would you? A life on the dole forever? What sort of life would that be? Or would you?

Why do you hate aboriginals so much. What did they ever do to you? They deserve better and to be treated as fairly as the rest of us.
You previously suggested that you'd just turn the welfare tap off and restrict it to only women and children that are abused. If you are interested in learning more facts today I suspect you'll find that this is still a significant number. It's in the closing the gap reports if you care to take a look. Might even be a summary of it on YouTube.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,910
That's a fairly big shift you've made.

So you acknowledge your previous comments where you suggested that the indigenous population are 'by and large' middle class and no different to whities, do you?

You were wrong about something so simple and easily verified, weren't you?

The majority are middle class merkin, wtf look!

Can you count?

There are roughly 800K recognized Aboriginals in Australia. The number just keeps growing btw. Amazing considering. But that is for another day.

In Australia, 812,000 people identified as Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander in the 2021 Census of Population and Housing. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people represented 3.2% of the population.

How how many of those do you think are in poverty?

Answer:

About 30 per cent of Indigenous households are in income poverty, which indicates that over 120,000 Indigenous people are living below the poverty line.


Pretty simple maths people.
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
53,028
The majority are middle class merkin, wtf look!

Can you count?

There are roughly 800K recognized Aboriginals in Australia. The number just keeps growing btw. Amazing considering. But that is for another day.

In Australia, 812,000 people identified as Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander in the 2021 Census of Population and Housing. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people represented 3.2% of the population.

How how many of those do you think are in poverty?

Answer:

About 30 per cent of Indigenous households are in income poverty, which indicates that over 120,000 Indigenous people are living below the poverty line.


Pretty simple maths people.
Now do the same thing with white people and compare the two percentages and you'll have gotten somewhere this morning.
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
53,028
Yeah, now do the same with welfare respondents. Might make for some sobering thoughts.
Come on mate I know you love a good distraction, but I need you to focus if you want a schmacko.

What percentage of white Australians are below the poverty line? One more simple calc and you are there mate!

Let me know if the number is higher or lower than 30%.
 
Last edited:

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,910
What is the unemployment rate for non Indigenous people in Australia?


2.07 Employment - AIHW Indigenous HPF


For Indigenous Australians, the unemployment rate decreased between 2016 and 2021, from 15.0% to 10.0%, while for non-Indigenous Australians it decreased from 5.3% to 4.0%.13 July 2023

What is the $75000 payment to aboriginals?

The New South Wales Stolen Generations Reparations Scheme provides ex-gratia payments of $75,000 to living Stolen Generations survivors who were removed from their families and committed to the care of the New South Wales Aborigines Protection or Welfare Boards.

Do Aboriginals get more welfare?

On a per person basis, government welfare expenditure was $13,968 per Indigenous Australian, compared with $6,019 per non-Indigenous Australian in 2012–13—this equates to expenditure of $2.32 per Indigenous person for every $1.00 spent per non-Indigenous person.

Do Aboriginals pay stamp duty?

The Aboriginal people living in social housing are exempt from Stamp Duty as per Section 278 of the Duties Act 1997 (NSW).

Do aboriginals have to pay HECS?

Help with course fees for Australian Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander students who are studying a masters or doctorate. If you're an ABSTUDY masters or doctorate student, we may pay the compulsory course fees. This is the cost of the tuition fees, or student contribution commitment, previously known as HECS.

How much money does the Australian government give to aboriginals?

Taking into account the $300 million allocated for Indigenous housing and the $177 million underspend in 2021–22, the October 2022–23 Budget provides $1.1 billion more than the March 2022–23 Budget for Indigenous Australians-related matters, averaging $4.2 billion per year over the forward estimates.

How much of Australia is owned by aboriginals?

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples' rights and interests in land are formally recognised over around 50 per cent of Australia's land mass. Connection to land is of central importance to First Nations Australians.



The above is just some of what is already available to them. How much more do we need to give? Remember $30B is one heck of a number to spend annually.
 

Soren Lorenson

First Grade
Messages
7,583
The majority are middle class merkin, wtf look!

Can you count?

There are roughly 800K recognized Aboriginals in Australia. The number just keeps growing btw. Amazing considering. But that is for another day.

In Australia, 812,000 people identified as Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander in the 2021 Census of Population and Housing. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people represented 3.2% of the population.

How how many of those do you think are in poverty?

Answer:

About 30 per cent of Indigenous households are in income poverty, which indicates that over 120,000 Indigenous people are living below the poverty line.


Pretty simple maths people.
So if you're not living in poverty you're middle class, right?
 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
Messages
53,028
The above is just some of what is already available to them. How much more do we need to give?
You posted the percentage of indigenous people below the poverty line 10-15 mins before you posted this. Didn't think it was worth considering again in the context of your new post?

Put simply, despite welfare nearly a third of indigenous people are below the poverty line. A f**king third! How does that compare to the percentage of whities below the poverty line? If you'd finished your earlier assignment you'd know it is much much higher.

I like to focus on outcomes as they are more reliable indicators. The end outcome at the moment is not acceptable. If 30% of whities were below the poverty line there would be outrage.

So now that we've established that there is a problem we can discuss welfare. Clearly it's not working because the scale of the problem is not diminishing. We aren't closing the gap.

Why is that? A key issue for me is that there needs to be more policies and programs that encourage capacity building amongst indigenous communities so that they have a pathway to being self-sustaining. Money alone can only go so far.

So rather than add up all the $ and say 'what more do they want' let's be a bit smarter.

Let's look at outcomes that aren't improving and acknowledge that in light of cold, hard facts only an idiot would say 'what more more do they want' because whatever we are doing isn't working.

Instead, let's think about how we can do things better.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,719

Jacinta Nampijinpa Price says there are no ongoing negative impacts of colonisation on Indigenous Australians. Is that correct?​

RMIT ABC Fact Check
Posted 3h ago3 hours ago
860f38e4a16a5583e5f4c69f22709e4f

RMIT ABC Fact Check presents the latest in fact checking and misinformation.(AAP: Mick Tsikas)
Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article

abc.net.au/news/fact-check-jacinta-nampijinpa-price-colonisation-no-impact/102884690

CheckMate September 22, 2023​

This week, we look at whether the lasting impact of colonisation on Indigenous Australians has been entirely positive, as claimed by a leading No campaigner in the Voice to Parliament referendum.
We also explain why social media posts about carbon emissions and "global greening" don't tell the full story.

Jacinta Price says there are 'no ongoing negative impacts' of colonisation. Here are the facts​

Jacinta Nampijinpa Price speaks at a podium at the National Press Club

Senator Nampijinipa Price also dismissed the notion of intergenerational trauma in her address.(AAP: Lukas Coch )

Ahead of October's Voice to Parliament referendum, Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians Jacinta Nampijinpa Price has sparked controversy for comments made during a recent appearance at the National Press Club.

Asked by a journalist whether she believed the history of colonisation continued "to have an impact on some Indigenous Australians", the senator responded:

"Positive impact? Absolutely. I mean, now we've got running water, we've got readily available food."
Prompted to clarify whether she believed there were negative impacts for Indigenous people, Senator Nampijinpa Price said there were "no ongoing negative impacts of colonisation".

The Nationals senator also dismissed the notion of intergenerational trauma — that is, where a person's traumatic experience affects their children and other descendants — as a result of colonisation.
But experts disagree, and numerous scientific studies and articles contradict her comments.
In a statement drawing on research papers and government documents, researchers from the University of Western Australia's School of Indigenous Studies told CheckMate the impact of colonisation was "far more catastrophic than physically taking control of Country and its Indigenous people".
"Instead, it is the traumatic actions and events that continue long after the initial takeover of lands, like the unprecedented spread of Western diseases that caused death to many communities and/or mass killings of Indigenous peoples during the frontier wars and more," they said.
"Colonisation has a flow-on effect to everyday Australian life, such as law, systems and organisations."
The researchers pointed to a number of papers that found Indigenous Australians who had been subject to policies of colonisation such as the forced removal of children and elders from families and communities consistently suffered adverse outcomes as a result.
A 2018 report from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare (AIHW), for example, found that members of the Stolen Generations were "more likely to be worse off than other Indigenous Australians of the same age on a range of health and socioeconomic outcomes".
Their descendants "were also consistently more likely to have experienced adverse outcomes over a broad range of health, socioeconomic and cultural indicators".
Another report referenced by the UWA researchers illustrated that "children living with members from the Stolen Generations are more likely to experience poor health, experience financial disadvantage and are more likely to experience life stressors".
Dr Tracy Westerman, a clinical psychologist with 25 years of direct experience and publications in Indigenous trauma, suicide and mental health and Nyamal woman, took to X (formerly Twitter) following Senator Nampijinpa Price's speech to share more than a dozen scientific studies and articles countering the senator's assertions.

Among those studies, a 2020 systematic scoping review aimed at understanding the impact of historical trauma due to colonisation found that historical trauma "continues to have a profound impact on Indigenous young peoples".
Similarly, a 2016 review of scientific literature found "general consensus that the impact of colonisation on the health of Indigenous people manifests negatively … [and] is experienced intra-generationally and inter-generationally".
Elsewhere, a 2022 report published by the AIHW stated that "colonisation has had a devastating impact on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities and culture".
"Violence and epidemic disease caused an immediate loss of life, and the occupation of land by settlers and the restriction of Aboriginal people to 'reserves' disrupted their ability to support themselves," the report, Determinants of Health for Indigenous Australians, found.
"Together with the forcible removal of Indigenous children from their families and communities, Indigenous Australians have suffered ongoing inter-generational trauma."
A fact sheet published by the Centre of Best Practice in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Suicide Prevention concurs.
"The combined effects of colonisation and oppressive policies and practices have had a profound and enduring impact on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples' health and social and emotional wellbeing," the fact sheet states.
A young Aboriginal man

The negative effects of colonisation can be passed down generations, according to experts.(ABC News: James Dunlevie)
In an email, Jon Altman, an emeritus professor at the Australian National University (ANU), told CheckMate that in short, colonial legacy was "a key explanator" of the disparities between Indigenous Australians and the remaining Australian population.
Professor Altman pointed to a paper he co-authored in 1991 explaining "the exclusion of Aboriginal people from the mainstream provisions of the welfare state until the 1970s", which he said "left a deep legacy reflected in socioeconomic disparity".
This could be seen in differing outcomes for measures such as life expectancy, education and employment, said Professor Altman, who also noted the impact of other factors.
These included remoteness, ongoing neglect, demographic differences and "cultural priorities", such as a desire to stay connected to ancestral lands where governments did not provide services and where there may be no employment prospects.
"So intergenerational disparities in themselves generate poverty for many," he said.
Meanwhile, the Central Land Council (CLC), which represents the Aboriginal peoples of the southern half of the Northern Territory, also rejected Senator Nampijinpa Price's position, describing her remarks as "hurting members of our community and homelands".
"The senator's denial of history and its ongoing impacts is disgraceful," the council said in a media statement.
As for her claims about the positive impact of colonisation in regards to the availability of running water and readily available food, the council noted: "Our families still do not all have access to affordable healthy food, drinkable water and sustainable water supplies.
"Many of our communities live with water stress, food insecurity, exorbitant costs and living conditions that would not be tolerated by any other Australians."

 

Gary Gutful

Post Whore
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53,028

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,910
We are doing you a favour as you can barely even focus properly on one issue.

Why is it that you throw these distraction posts out there? Seems to be a deliberate strategy that you employ when your comments on another topic have been found to be incorrect.

Hey simpleton, learn to chew and walk at the same time why doncha?
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,910
You posted the percentage of indigenous people below the poverty line 10-15 mins before you posted this. Didn't think it was worth considering again in the context of your new post?

Put simply, despite welfare nearly a third of indigenous people are below the poverty line. A f**king third! How does that compare to the percentage of whities below the poverty line? If you'd finished your earlier assignment you'd know it is much much higher.

I like to focus on outcomes as they are more reliable indicators. The end outcome at the moment is not acceptable. If 30% of whities were below the poverty line there would be outrage.

So now that we've established that there is a problem we can discuss welfare. Clearly it's not working because the scale of the problem is not diminishing. We aren't closing the gap.

Why is that? A key issue for me is that there needs to be more policies and programs that encourage capacity building amongst indigenous communities so that they have a pathway to being self-sustaining. Money alone can only go so far.

So rather than add up all the $ and say 'what more do they want' let's be a bit smarter.

Let's look at outcomes that aren't improving and acknowledge that in light of cold, hard facts only an idiot would say 'what more more do they want' because whatever we are doing isn't working.

Instead, let's think about how we can do things better.

You sound like Hilary Clinton. Next thing you know you will ask for donations to your charity to save the aboriginal fund.

Spoken like a true liberal.
 

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