OT: Current Affairs and Politics

[TheParraboy]

Saw a FB feed yesterday morning around 7am, saying 110k pre votes have been counted EDIT was a poll not prevotes

86% - No

Agree with Bandwagon, people are confused as hell to the point of making up their own reasons what this vote is about

We pre voted here in Shellharbour, there were 5-6 people wearing VOTE NO tshirts , happy to talk to anyone who wanted to, I didn't see them approaching anyone (they didnt approach us) but many approached them

 

[Gronk]

Saw a FB feed yesterday morning around 7am, saying 110k pre votes have been counted

86% - No

Agree with Bandwagon, people are confused as hell to the point of making up their own reasons what this vote is about

We pre voted here in Shellharbour, there were 5-6 people wearing VOTE NO tshirts , happy to talk to anyone who wanted to, I didn't see them approaching anyone (they didnt approach us) but many approached them

Since when do any election results get released early, before 6pm on Saturday?

Is this new ?

 

[TheParraboy]

Since when do any election results get released early, before 6pm on Saturday?

Good question, just glanced at it.

and my apologies was a poll

and from the site : Vote No Australia

 

[Gary Gutful]

As Thomas Keneally said

Blow that whistle, ref.

 

[TheParraboy]

Me and mum voted Yes, had to help her spell it. Felt like I was cheating for her in an exam

Unfortunately I think No will win easily eg back to what BW said

Then again voting was done in pencil...

 

[Chipmunk]

What’s wrong with accepting responsibility for the past, changing our constitution to recognise our First Nations people and consulting with them on matters that affect them. It’s called a fair go.

As Thomas Keneally said, our constitution and its authors aint as sacred as some people laud it to be, as it was very much written with racist undertones.

Think the constitution is sacred? Meet the men who helped write it | Thomas Keneally

Australia’s founding document was written by fallible, admirable men, limited by the unexamined prejudices of their time

www.theguardian.com

Section 25 of the constitution – as those three men and their fellow framed it – states that “if by the law of any State all persons of any race are disqualified from voting at elections for the more numerous house of the parliament of the state, then, in reckoning the number of people of the state or the commonwealth, persons of that race resident in that state shall not be counted.” This appalling clause, to tell the truth, was partly a sop to states like South Australia, exempting them from paying for the new federal government per head of Aboriginal inhabitant, and was influenced too by the then uncriticised view that Indigenous Australians would die out as a race. Yet it now reads like something belonging to another planet, not just another polity: the total denial of political attention to an entire race.

Of course in 1967 we were brave enough to fix this with a bipartisan referendum which got up by 91%.

My haven’t we changed since the fun loving 60’s.

You'd have to ask those voting No for their specific views on why they wont change the constitution for this reason. I can't help you there.

I don't neccessarily think the Voice is about accepting responsibility of the past (i suspect it is more about the future really), but I can also see why people would be against accepting responsibility for something in the past, if they didn't cause it, and they cannot change anything in the past.

At least 99% of the more than 96% of non-Indigenous population in Australia today didn't cause the issues of the past.

 

[bazza]

Do you think the rest of the world outside of the British just leaves those who were here alone for the next 235 years?

yes - the Indigenous Australian's should just be grateful that the Martians didn't land here first and wipe them off the face of the earth

 

[bazza]

I don't neccessarily think the Voice is about accepting responsibility of the past (i suspect it is more about the future really), but I can also see why people would be against accepting responsibility for something in the past, if they didn't cause it, and they cannot change anything in the past.

I agree
We should get rid of Anzac Day and Australia day because we can't take responsibility for those things that happened in the past and we can't change them

 

[Gronk]

You'd have to ask those voting No for their specific views on why they want change the constitution for this reason. I can't help you there.

I don't neccessarily think the Voice is about accepting responsibility of the past (i suspect it is more about the future really), but I can also see why people would be against accepting responsibility for something in the past, if they didn't cause it, and they cannot change anything in the past.

At least 99% of the more than 96% of non-Indigenous population in Australia today didn't cause the issues of the past.

Yes John Howard made that position very clear.

As did Dutton when he walked out on Rudd's National apology.

 

[Chipmunk]

Yes John Howard made that position very clear.

As did Dutton when he walked out on Rudd's National apology.

What improvements have been made to the lives of everyday Indigenous people as a result of the apology?

 

[Chipmunk]

I agree
We should get rid of Anzac Day and Australia day because we can't take responsibility for those things that happened in the past and we can't change them

Neither ANZAC Day nor Australia Day is about taking responsibility for the past are they?

They're traditionally a national holiday for the same reason that Christmas Day, Easter and Labour Day are holidays, - to commemorate an activity that occurred in the past.

We have a holiday here in the ACT each year along similar lines for activities of the past towards Indigenous people, Reconciliation Day.

 

[Gronk]

What improvements have been made to the lives of everyday Indigenous people as a result of the apology?

There are unquantifiable impacts the National Apology that do not appear in ATAR scores, mortality rates etc in the reports from the Australian Bureau of Statistics. We are talking about steps towards healing.

On quantifiable facts however, as the National Apology took place in Feb 2008, successive minority labor governments then a long term LNP government created a hap-hazard chop n change position of funding and policy depending who was in and who gave an actual f**k. Maybe we need some direction, like the Voice ?

At one point we even had a PM who appointed himself as Indigenous Affairs top dog only to say that our remote indigenous brothers were copping cuts to funding because he didn't want to fund their "lifestyle choices".

Remote communities are 'lifestyle choices', says Tony Abbott

PM says it is right to axe funding for remote Indigenous communities in Western Australia if cost of providing services outweighs benefits

www.theguardian.com

 

[Chipmunk]

There are unquantifiable impacts the National Apology that do not appear in ATAR scores, mortality rates etc in the reports from the Australian Bureau of Statistics. We are talking about steps towards healing.

On quantifiable facts however, as the National Apology took place in Feb 2008, successive minority labor governments then a long term LNP government created a hap-hazard chop n change position of funding and policy depending who was in and who gave an actual f**k. Maybe we need some direction, like the Voice ?

At one point we even had a PM who appointed himself as Indigenous Affairs top dog only to say that our remote indigenous brothers were copping cuts to funding because he didn't want to fund their "lifestyle choices".

Remote communities are 'lifestyle choices', says Tony Abbott

PM says it is right to axe funding for remote Indigenous communities in Western Australia if cost of providing services outweighs benefits

www.theguardian.com

All of those things would've have occurred, with or without a National apology.

Your first point on the unquantifiable steps towards healing, does not improve the everyday lives of the most disadvantaged Indigenous.

 

[Gronk]

Your first point on the unquantifiable steps towards healing, does not improve the everyday lives of the most disadvantaged Indigenous.

Well then your grasp of mental health concepts is quite poor.

I think you need to find out how deeply the stolen generations impacted the first nations people. How the butterfly effect rippled through communities and tore them apart. How it perpetuated mistrust with authority.

It started the healing process. More steps need to be taken. #yes

Between 1910 and 1970 thousands of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children were forcibly removed from their families and communities by churches, welfare organisations and governments. The exact number is not known. However, is estimated that, anywhere from 1 in 10 to 1 in 3 Indigenous children were forcibly removed from their families and fostered or adopted by non-Indigenous families or raised in institutions. These children are known as the Stolen Generations. Many experienced neglect, physical and sexual abuse and exploitative labour, and were denied contact with their families.

Apology to Australia's Indigenous Peoples

Apology to Australias Indigenous Peoples

www.aph.gov.au

 

[Chipmunk]

Well then your grasp of mental health concepts is quite poor.

I think you need to find out how deeply the stolen generations impacted the first nations people. How the butterfly effect rippled through communities and tore them apart. How it perpetuated mistrust with authority.

It started the healing process. More steps need to be taken. #yes

Between 1910 and 1970 thousands of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children were forcibly removed from their families and communities by churches, welfare organisations and governments. The exact number is not known. However, is estimated that, anywhere from 1 in 10 to 1 in 3 Indigenous children were forcibly removed from their families and fostered or adopted by non-Indigenous families or raised in institutions. These children are known as the Stolen Generations. Many experienced neglect, physical and sexual abuse and exploitative labour, and were denied contact with their families.

Apology to Australia's Indigenous Peoples

Apology to Australias Indigenous Peoples

www.aph.gov.au

View attachment 80605View attachment 80606

I'd like to see a survey conducted of every Indigenous person in the country on whether they feel their everyday life has improved purely as result of the National Apology, and if so, what do they think those improvements are.

I suspect the result would be a very resounding No.

 

[Twizzle]

I suspect the result would be a very resounding No.

it sounds to me like that is what you want it to be

it's hard to comprehend how you cannot see the benefits of the apology

 

[JokerEel]

There are unquantifiable impacts the National Apology that do not appear in ATAR scores, mortality rates etc in the reports from the Australian Bureau of Statistics. We are talking about steps towards healing.

On quantifiable facts however, as the National Apology took place in Feb 2008, successive minority labor governments then a long term LNP government created a hap-hazard chop n change position of funding and policy depending who was in and who gave an actual f**k. Maybe we need some direction, like the Voice ?

At one point we even had a PM who appointed himself as Indigenous Affairs top dog only to say that our remote indigenous brothers were copping cuts to funding because he didn't want to fund their "lifestyle choices".

Remote communities are 'lifestyle choices', says Tony Abbott

PM says it is right to axe funding for remote Indigenous communities in Western Australia if cost of providing services outweighs benefits

www.theguardian.com

Iam sorry but what unquantifiable is just some BS for nothing changed...

 

[JokerEel]

Well then your grasp of mental health concepts is quite poor.

I think you need to find out how deeply the stolen generations impacted the first nations people. How the butterfly effect rippled through communities and tore them apart. How it perpetuated mistrust with authority.

It started the healing process. More steps need to be taken. #yes

Between 1910 and 1970 thousands of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children were forcibly removed from their families and communities by churches, welfare organisations and governments. The exact number is not known. However, is estimated that, anywhere from 1 in 10 to 1 in 3 Indigenous children were forcibly removed from their families and fostered or adopted by non-Indigenous families or raised in institutions. These children are known as the Stolen Generations. Many experienced neglect, physical and sexual abuse and exploitative labour, and were denied contact with their families.

Apology to Australia's Indigenous Peoples

Apology to Australias Indigenous Peoples

www.aph.gov.au

View attachment 80605View attachment 80606

Are you a politician? Only ask as you talk some shit like they do..

 

[Chipmunk]

it sounds to me like that is what you want it to be

it's hard to comprehend how you cannot see the benefits of the apology

Not at all, why would I want it to be? It's not going to impact me either way. I'm just making the observation.

I didn't say that the apology didn't have benefits itself. I just said it didn't ever improve the everyday lives of the vast majority of Indigenous people.

 

[eels_fan]

Anyone want to take a bet there will be an escalation in local related Israel issues here in Australia come Sunday to take the front page focus off Albo and his abject failure