OT- NZ Election

[JJ]

People are always going to perceive these things in different ways - to be honest I think both parties are as guilty, and they've largely remained on point - nothing English has said (nor the funny ad) has been any more disingenuous than Labour's rhetoric

I certainly don't look at the BS social media from sycophants on either side.

Labour needs to present something credible imo, and as I said above since Clark and Cullen walked away they've had nothing IMO - and that's what this is all about, our opinions, the people will speak, and as Winston loves to say only one poll matters

 

[Meth]

Today's developments suggest perhaps they are - 9 years in opposition and they still can't develop a policy - 50% backflip and the argument that this is what they meant all along FFS they are incompetent beyond belief - Helen Clark and Michael Cullen were a long time ago

Yeah I more meant that they weren't the difference between them winning or losing the election.

The general voter doesn't decide based on a discerning consideration of policy. They base their decision on personality, or values, or they respond to inducements.

In my view, the only reason Ardern won't defeat English in this election is that she wasn't afforded a realistic time frame to do so, and she doesn't have a strong support team (Kelvin Davis, the Greens) behind her.

 

[JJ]

English is growing on people - he's actually a pretty nice guy by all accounts

Ardern's time will/might come, but as you note her team is shithouse beyond belief, and in reality she's achieved very little in politics until the last few weeks - and she's now being found out a bit

 

[Meth]

English is growing on people - he's actually a pretty nice guy by all accounts

Ardern's time will/might come, but as you note her team is shithouse beyond belief, and in reality she's achieved very little in politics until the last few weeks - and she's now being found out a bit

+ it looks like her and Robertson aren't quite on the same page right now. Not good a week out from the election.

 

[Meth]

I think English is a nice guy. Always has been. Just lacks the strength of charisma that you typically need to get the top job. And now, more than ever.

Key had it.

Arden has it too, though not quite enough to pull off the full Lazarus perhaps.

 

[Juju]

I agree also that English seems like a genuine person who wants whats he thinks is best for the country. I just don't think he has very modern values.
In a way I think would't it be good if he could stay on as finance minister.

John Key was a piece of $hit. The flag referendum and bringing back knighthoods were pure egotism.

 

[TheDMC]

I'll vote for you DMC.

My thoughts, put simply, are that the country is well off.
Stable government, low unemployment, low balance of payments, high level of exports.
Like it or not our economic wellbeing is tied to the success of our farming sector.
We are now in a position where can spend more on education and education.
But I am not a fan of spending millions on trivial things - that can drive you broke.
If you want to rock the boat and put some fringe coalition into power that's your right.
But don't do it because you think the country's in a mess.

Thanks mate, I'd vote for me too. I come from a farming background so am definitely for it, but my work is environment related, so I see the value of green growth approaches, esp for farming in nz.

Macro economic indicators might all be swell Rich, but they are a pretty narrow measurement of well being of a country/or a person in my opinion.

Time for gross national happiness !

Probably won't end up voting, will just complain about whoever is in power. I don't see a lot of difference between labour and national these days.

 

[ozbash]

John Key was a piece of $hit. The flag referendum and bringing back knighthoods were pure egotism.

JK will go down as one (if not,the) of our greatest leaders.
He dragged this country out of the Labour induced shit we were stagnating in.

He had 2 major earthquakes to deal with as well as finding billions of dollars settling treaty greviences to name just a couple.
And at the end of the 9 years we are one of the most "livable " country's on the planet, our books are in the black and there are jobs for anyone who wants one.

Go back to Labour ?
You must be f**king joking...

 

[Juju]

JK will go down as one (if not,the) of our greatest leaders.
He dragged this country out of the Labour induced shit we were stagnating in.

He had 2 major earthquakes to deal with as well as finding billions of dollars settling treaty greviences to name just a couple.
And at the end of the 9 years we are one of the most "livable " country's on the planet, our books are in the black and there are jobs for anyone who wants one.

Go back to Labour ?
You must be f**king joking...

He's already remembered as PM who wouldn't make a stand on anything.

* Couldn't remember where he stood in 81.
* Made a promise to Pike families and quit on them.
* Pulled young girls pony tails.
* A whole generation priced out of the Auckland housing market.
* Hospitals chronically underfunded.
* The flag debacle.
* Stripped NZ of its assets.

 

[JJ]

LOL - Key, like some others will be remembered as a great leader I think - the thing that's likely forgotten is that he had a great team behind him and English was front and centre there. Clark was obviously great too, in different ways, and had a great team as well - have to disagree with oz there - but the Labour National difference has been ridiculously small across those two centrist Goverrnments

Ardern has much less substance than Key - and has a bunch of idiots and zealots behind her - and I think is an idiot zealot herself....

Anyway, we're lucky to have these discussions so openly, and I trust nobody takes offence (although the left often seem to - their hypocrisy is often rather breathtaking)

 

[Leber]

Two ticks blue.

End thread.

 

[Shaun Hewitt]

Unable to vote on election day has led me to vote early.

I trust we are all voting.

 

[Juju]

(although the left often seem to - their hypocrisy is often rather breathtaking)

The Hypocrisy of the right is hilarious too.
Now just imagine if Labour had a Chinese Spy in their ranks.

Key is the only PM I have heard being roundly boo'd at a sporting event in my life time.

 

[TheDMC]

My problem with the 'right' is the seemingly entrenched refusal to acknowledge that neoliberal capitalism, which in recent decades has dominated in most of the western world including NZ, is creating huge inequalities and absolutely plundering the natural resource base to such a degree that the shit is really going to hit the fan.

But I can understand the right's reluctance to take the left seriously sometimes too. Remember when the Green's main policy was or seemed to be decriminalising marijuana and rastafari Nandor Tanczos was the man? I mean, I am all for legalising weed, but seriously? I think they have come a fair way since then though.

 

[JJ]

My problem with the 'right' is the seemingly entrenched refusal to acknowledge that neoliberal capitalism, which in recent decades has dominated in most of the western world including NZ, is creating huge inequalities and absolutely plundering the natural resource base to such a degree that the shit is really going to hit the fan.

But I can understand the right's reluctance to take the left seriously sometimes too. Remember when the Green's main policy was or seemed to be decriminalising marijuana and rastafari Nandor Tanczos was the man? I mean, I am all for legalising weed, but seriously? I think they have come a fair way since then though.

Sure, the things is the 'right' (National) and the 'left' (Labour) are largely indiscriminable from each other especially given the recent U turn on tax - the rest is largely rhetoric and they're battling for centre NZ with policies that are largely the same - Labour simply has little depth or credibility at the moment - Adern has more TV presence than English, but the rest of them are numpties, and her political career has been stellar for it's mediocrity until now. And at heart there's a worry that her and some others are relatively extreme socialists, which few want.

For disclosure, I will certainly vote Blue this time, but have voted Labour several times, and think the Clark government was excellent, as was/is the Key one - none are perfect of course, and Clark's people implemented some excellent policies that helped Key's government - New Zealand remains a largely great place to live - certainly not perfect but better than most, by a long way - the inequities are a worry, but there's no quick fix there - the current Labour group, aside from funky soundbites and pre-mentioned lipstick seem to have nothing (IMO of course). To me they need to provide credible policies, and establish that they actually have useful contributing politicians - with Annette King gone they are terribly thin...

Of course the beauty of democracy is that the people will decide, and then likely Winston will (and he'll likely be relatively sensible about it)

 

[TheDMC]

Sure, the things is the 'right' (National) and the 'left' (Labour) are largely indiscriminable from each other especially given the recent U turn on tax - the rest is largely rhetoric and they're battling for centre NZ with policies that are largely the same - Labour simply has little depth or credibility at the moment - Adern has more TV presence than English, but the rest of them are numpties, and her political career has been stellar for it's mediocrity until now. And at heart there's a worry that her and some others are relatively extreme socialists, which few want.

For disclosure, I will certainly vote Blue this time, but have voted Labour several times, and think the Clark government was excellent, as was/is the Key one - none are perfect of course, and Clark's people implemented some excellent policies that helped Key's government - New Zealand remains a largely great place to live - certainly not perfect but better than most, by a long way - the inequities are a worry, but there's no quick fix there - the current Labour group, aside from funky soundbites and pre-mentioned lipstick seem to have nothing (IMO of course). To me they need to provide credible policies, and establish that they actually have useful contributing politicians - with Annette King gone they are terribly thin...

Of course the beauty of democracy is that the people will decide, and then likely Winston will (and he'll likely be relatively sensible about it)

Can't argue with any of that JJ, great post.

Except IMO, Winston is a bit of a tool.

 

[JJ]

Can't argue with any of that JJ, great post.

Except IMO, Winston is a bit of a tool.

He's a tool for sure lol but once in Govt he tends to be more sane.

 

[TheDMC]

And Rich and Ozbash, although we may have different political leanings, would definitely buy the beers and let you guys take me fishing up north regardless. f**k I miss fishing. Kills me.

 

[JJ]

And Rich and Ozbash, although we may have different political leanings, would definitely buy the beers and let you guys take me fishing up north regardless. f**k I miss fishing. Kills me.

That's it eh. Good people are good people, some take this political ideology so seriously especially at election time and it's kind of pointless getting too upset

 

[ozbash]

And Rich and Ozbash, although we may have different political leanings, would definitely buy the beers and let you guys take me fishing up north regardless. f**k I miss fishing. Kills me.

I'm sure something can be arranged