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OT: Olympics.

Meth

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,724
Beavers Headgear said:
Throws in a full face mask, apparently likes to be referred to as they or them …
Click to expand...

ok I don’t really give much of a shit about preferred pronouns. The whole thing is madness to me. But yeah- if you are competing in women’s sport, it shouldn’t be a crime to refer to you as a ‘she’
 
Big Marn

Big Marn

Bench
Messages
2,963
Meth said:
ok I don’t really give much of a shit about preferred pronouns. The whole thing is madness to me. But yeah- if you are competing in women’s sport, it shouldn’t be a crime to refer to you as a ‘she’
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im too old and set in my ways to change now. Cant keep up with way things are now.
TBH i was abit offput by Aotearoa completely replacing New Zealand on the Medals visual on Sky Open this morning. When did that become a thing? No issue with a hybrid look.
 
P

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,453
Meth said:
ok I don’t really give much of a shit about preferred pronouns. The whole thing is madness to me. But yeah- if you are competing in women’s sport, it shouldn’t be a crime to refer to you as a ‘she’
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree. I think it's madness but whatever, it's not a big issue. Or it shouldn't be. Backley did nothing wrong, other than go with 55 years of human conditioning. I believe that this non-binary stuff is an invention that owes solely to the internet and the sharing of shit ideas, I'd wager 20 years ago that not one person thought 'hey I'm neither gender, I don't feel like either, and I wish there was a term so I felt comfortable'. Nah, someone made it up, probably for attention, and it grew from there. Having said that, it's not doing anyone any particular harm, so whatever. I'll call you they if I have to, no biggie for me.

We had people in the other week to work to try to 'educate' us on this sort of stuff, the lead presenter was a non-binary person who said they also had a non-binary child, whilst also presenting all this evidence that people who identify that way have massively detrimental outcomes. I thought to myself, isn't that f**king sad that clearly there's a chance you've pushed that ideology onto your kid (coincidence, right??) when you are out pushing how miserable the lives of these people can be.
 
P

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,453
Big Marn said:
im too old and set in my ways to change now. Cant keep up with way things are now.
TBH i was abit offput by Aotearoa completely replacing New Zealand on the Medals visual on Sky Open this morning. When did that become a thing? No issue with a hybrid look.
Click to expand...
I get this, I just don't care. Aotearoa, NZ, I don't give a f**k. I know who it is. I just hate the arguments, the vitriol, the bullshit that goes along with this sort of thing now. We're all f**king humans, why can't we just try and work together? I don't give a f**k if anyone is Maori, European, Chinese, left or right-leaning/voting, gay, straight, likes cats, ballet, whatever...if you're a decent person you're good with me.
 
Wheeled Warrior

Wheeled Warrior

Bench
Messages
2,958
Old generation with their old ways will never change. The sooner they die off the better so kids today can focus on better shit.
 
P

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,453
Wheeled Warrior said:
Old generation with their old ways will never change. The sooner they die off the better so kids today can focus on better shit.
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Mmmm....that still feels divisive to me. Some people in that generation (and we shouldn't generalise, it ain't all of them) are definitely caught behind the times, in terms of race, gender, politics etc and refuse to change. But again, I don't think the answer is to hope they die soon, or derisively call them Boomers, or anything like that. I've never seen an argument or battle solved by firing shots at each other, or at least not in a good sense.

I just wish we could try and solve a lot of these things maturely. At the moment we have this Maori v Colonials thing going on, a significant left v right thing, a generation v generation thing...what the f**k is the benefit? I agree with Marc Ellis, who said NZ has irreparably changed. We used to be so laid back, we kinda mostly got on as a nation, we had a laugh, we didn't take ourselves too seriously. Can't see that we could claim that now.
 
Wheeled Warrior

Wheeled Warrior

Bench
Messages
2,958
Penrose Warrior said:
Mmmm....that still feels divisive to me. Some people in that generation (and we shouldn't generalise, it ain't all of them) are definitely caught behind the times, in terms of race, gender, politics etc and refuse to change. But again, I don't think the answer is to hope they die soon, or derisively call them Boomers, or anything like that. I've never seen an argument or battle solved by firing shots at each other, or at least not in a good sense.

I just wish we could try and solve a lot of these things maturely. At the moment we have this Maori v Colonials thing going on, a significant left v right thing, a generation v generation thing...what the f**k is the benefit? I agree with Marc Ellis, who said NZ has irreparably changed. We used to be so laid back, we kinda mostly got on as a nation, we had a laugh, we didn't take ourselves too seriously. Can't see that we could claim that now.
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I don't believe things are getting worse just because discussions about race and colonization are becoming more frequent and visible. When Marc Ellis refers to the 'good old days,' what he really means is that we didn’t talk about these issues much because they were deliberately suppressed.

When people say, 'Let's go back to the good old days,' the reality is that those days were never truly good, especially for marginalized groups who never had an equal opportunity to reach their full potential.
 
P

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,453
Wheeled Warrior said:
I don't believe things are getting worse just because discussions about race and colonization are becoming more frequent and visible. When Marc Ellis refers to the 'good old days,' what he really means is that we didn’t talk about these issues much because they were deliberately suppressed.

When people say, 'Let's go back to the good old days,' the reality is that those days were never truly good, especially for marginalized groups who never had an equal opportunity to reach their full potential.
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I should declare, I am 100% for discussions about the rights of Maori, the damage of colonisation, etc. I believe Maori have the right to expect better than they're getting, in certain aspects that this government have denied them.

I just hate the shouting matches, the anger, when neither side is listening. No one listens when they're shouted at. I felt that way when we had the Rainbow (their word, not mine) group in the other week. This person kept saying 'you should do this, and it's this way, and you're not doing this, and this this this' and I found myself going nah f**k this, don't tell me what to do. Let's have a conversation, where you hear me, I hear you, then we understand each other and can make our own judgements.

Maybe I should have said let's go back to the good old days, without the prejudice. When you could have a drink at the Sevens, as a sensible adult, and if the 1% were f**kwits, you found a way to get rid of them - not to knock it on the head completely. Where you could have someone in a gimp mask on a TV program because it was funny. Where if someone made a mistake - like 'misgendering' someone - you could just say hey do better would you, not 'let's get this guy banned' etc. A commentator was banned earlier in the Olympics for a misogynistic comment, which wasn't great...but it's not necessary to ban them. Just educate them, explain to them.

I'm a teacher, and if a kid gets something wrong, I don't rip shit into them, embarrass them, treat them like scum etc...I have boundaries and consequences, but if I jump down their throat for everything they do that isn't considered right, they'll soon stop listening to me. I'll just be another angry voice for them to rail against.
 
Matua

Matua

First Grade
Messages
5,112
Penrose Warrior said:
I should declare, I am 100% for discussions about the rights of Maori, the damage of colonisation, etc. I believe Maori have the right to expect better than they're getting, in certain aspects that this government have denied them.

I just hate the shouting matches, the anger, when neither side is listening. No one listens when they're shouted at. I felt that way when we had the Rainbow (their word, not mine) group in the other week. This person kept saying 'you should do this, and it's this way, and you're not doing this, and this this this' and I found myself going nah f**k this, don't tell me what to do. Let's have a conversation, where you hear me, I hear you, then we understand each other and can make our own judgements.

Maybe I should have said let's go back to the good old days, without the prejudice. When you could have a drink at the Sevens, as a sensible adult, and if the 1% were f**kwits, you found a way to get rid of them - not to knock it on the head completely. Where you could have someone in a gimp mask on a TV program because it was funny. Where if someone made a mistake - like 'misgendering' someone - you could just say hey do better would you, not 'let's get this guy banned' etc. A commentator was banned earlier in the Olympics for a misogynistic comment, which wasn't great...but it's not necessary to ban them. Just educate them, explain to them.

I'm a teacher, and if a kid gets something wrong, I don't rip shit into them, embarrass them, treat them like scum etc...I have boundaries and consequences, but if I jump down their throat for everything they do that isn't considered right, they'll soon stop listening to me. I'll just be another angry voice for them to rail against.
Click to expand...
We have a govt who used race relations as a wedge issue, something they do every few cycles to (try) regain power. As @Wheeled Warrior notes their's an undercurrent of racism in NZ that NZers like to pretend doesn't exist and in fact NZers are smug in "our race relations are better than other colonised countries". Better doesn't mean squat, it's not good, just slightly better than other countries. I think every NZer should have to listen to the Aotearoa History Show podcast episode on the Native Land Court to find out just how the wealth of this country was transferred from Maori to Pakeha outside of raupatu.

On the subject of pronouns (just in general, not responding to you directly here) I think it's shit to reprimand a commentator for getting it wrong, unless of course they're doing it on purpose. But, I think peeps having a hissy fit over them is just silly, just call people what they want to be called. If they don't want to use a preferred pronoun then just say their name, it's not hard.

On the subject, how much of a legend is Carrington? What a machine.
 
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Philip_Smith007

Philip_Smith007

Coach
Messages
17,763
Penrose Warrior said:
I should declare, I am 100% for discussions about the rights of Maori, the damage of colonisation, etc. I believe Maori have the right to expect better than they're getting, in certain aspects that this government have denied them.

I just hate the shouting matches, the anger, when neither side is listening. No one listens when they're shouted at. I felt that way when we had the Rainbow (their word, not mine) group in the other week. This person kept saying 'you should do this, and it's this way, and you're not doing this, and this this this' and I found myself going nah f**k this, don't tell me what to do. Let's have a conversation, where you hear me, I hear you, then we understand each other and can make our own judgements.

Maybe I should have said let's go back to the good old days, without the prejudice. When you could have a drink at the Sevens, as a sensible adult, and if the 1% were f**kwits, you found a way to get rid of them - not to knock it on the head completely. Where you could have someone in a gimp mask on a TV program because it was funny. Where if someone made a mistake - like 'misgendering' someone - you could just say hey do better would you, not 'let's get this guy banned' etc. A commentator was banned earlier in the Olympics for a misogynistic comment, which wasn't great...but it's not necessary to ban them. Just educate them, explain to them.

I'm a teacher, and if a kid gets something wrong, I don't rip shit into them, embarrass them, treat them like scum etc...I have boundaries and consequences, but if I jump down their throat for everything they do that isn't considered right, they'll soon stop listening to me. I'll just be another angry voice for them to rail against.
Click to expand...

There is a few interesting science papers on the whole intergender/sex situation.
MRIs show some issue with the connections that recognise self (when you look in a mirror you know its you).
When groups start getting paid for service, then agendas get in the way.
But as you said the best way to educate is to discuss, not tell.
Those pushed out/punished can become radicalised and may explain a few things going on around the world.

But it's a discuss that never goes well online or when you can't hear context in people voices. You often will read it in the mood you are in, and it's normally not a good mood if it is something you don't agree with.
 
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