OT: Siege in Martin Place

[SharkShocked]

Religion of peace...in what countries?

Oh that's right... the Western world.

 

[azzah72]

Experience tells me Az, that you are 100% correct.

It's very easy for armchair experts, (and there have been plenty) to 'advise' what should and what shouldn't have been done. Specialist Police Squads train for this type of situation and entries. And, the female hostage does come across as ungrateful however might I suggest that she would still be suffering (and possibly will do for some time) from PTSD. No-one can be trained towitness death and not be affected in some way, let alone a member of the public thrown in at the deep end so to speak.

There is one person and one person only to blame for this incident - Man Haron Monis - no-one else.

For the record, I wasn't directing that towards and seige victims. Just the uneducated armchairs.

It just bugs me.

The victims are going to be traumatized, when in that situation, the brain is a weird and wonderful thing. It can make you think, say and do all sorts of things. It May not be right what all of them are saying and even come across a bit ungrateful but we don't know what they went through.

Thats why I refused to watch any of those "specials'. Skewed thoughts and clear ratings bait.

 

[Nuffs]

and if you read her SELECTED quotes, you'd think she was completely ungrateful of what they did. HOWEVER, she did thank them for risking their lives, and said that she thought they should have brought in the army instead of Police

still, I think that it was all crap that they all get paid some money to make the networks richer

 

[glenmoresharkie]

For the record, I wasn't directing that towards and seige victims. Just the uneducated armchairs.

It just bugs me.

The victims are going to be traumatized, when in that situation, the brain is a weird and wonderful thing. It can make you think, say and do all sorts of things. It May not be right what all of them are saying and even come across a bit ungrateful but we don't know what they went through.

Thats why I refused to watch any of those "specials'. Skewed thoughts and clear ratings bait.

What I want to know is....why did we not get to see any CCTV footage? Or are we not legally allowed to watch that?

 

[lolesi]

Firstly, it's before the coroner atm so it's not for public access, just like Marcias statement which she so dearly wants and secondly why do you think you are entitled to watch it ? You aren't a part of the investigation by the police or coroner. If anything you already have seen to much with the bullshit live streaming of the entire event that night. You aren't entitled to anything from this matter.

 

[azzah72]

What I want to know is....why did we not get to see any CCTV footage? Or are we not legally allowed to watch that?

I don't know, I would say it is unlikely we will while the investigation is going on.

Personally I don't know why anyone would want to. What's the point?

 

[lolesi]

I also can see an argument for the victims regarding Stockholm syndrome and it's effects... Though it is widely recognized as being with a victim and the bad guy/s it's also been documented that victims can get it with people who save them, free them from being captured. Pretty interesting.

 

[Gummyman]

This is such an infuriating topic when people who clearly don't look at the FACTS, make these insane comments "that they believe"!

There are a handful of facts that have come out, cold hard facts!

1. The AFP did not know whether he had a bomb attached to him or not, he was wearing a backpack the whole time. If he did & especially if he had a dead man switch, things end badly.

2. The glass was bullet resistant, as all windows in martin place are! What does this mean? It means that a bullet will not go through the window at first go unless they had explosive, armour piercing shells & even then the accuracy drops significantly which means there's still a fair bit of a chance that he could of missed. If they took a shot and missed, he probably would of slauted them all or let off "the bomb" they they didn't know if he had.

3. The inside of the store is made of marble, most bullets ricochet off marble. I hopefully don't have to explain why that's another reason why they didn't shoot. It's how Katrina Dawson died.

4. As someone else said, their mandate is to always try and end things peacefully, until the 2.00am mark, he hadn't hurt anyone, even when most had escaped. Things obviously changed at that point.

5. He requested an ISIS flag, a conversation with Abbott & a helicopter to land in martin place and take him away, we under no circumstances negotiate with Terrorists. Simple.

We were dealing with a murderous criminal with history of Violent crime, fraud, Postal harassment, sexual assaults & accessory to murder.

Combine that with requesting and ISIS flag and saying he has a bomb strapped to him, they did everything that they could causing as minimal collateral damage as possible

There is no substance to shit like bad Pr, or "they should have taken the shot". They always have a mandate and a protocol, and I believe they followed it correctly and got as good of a result as they possibly could.

Mate, I did say "I believe". Are you telling me I can't have an opinion?

Also, negotiations broke down almost immediately so how was it to end?

Are you telling me that two expert TRG snipers couldn't have taken this goose down because of bullet resistant (not proof) glass?

They knew who this lunatic was fairly quickly, therefore chances of a deadman switch was extremely minimal.

If there is no negotiation with terrorists, than how was it to end? The way did it or as I suggested a head and body shot by expert snipers.

You can't have it all mate. You have your opinions (and that is what they are) and I have mine.

 

[jc155776]

Mate, I did say "I believe". Are you telling me I can't have an opinion?

Also, negotiations broke down almost immediately so how was it to end?

Are you telling me that two expert TRG snipers couldn't have taken this goose down because of bullet resistant (not proof) glass?

They knew who this lunatic was fairly quickly, therefore chances of a deadman switch was extremely minimal.

If there is no negotiation with terrorists, than how was it to end? The way did it or as I suggested a head and body shot by expert snipers.

You can't have it all mate. You have your opinions (and that is what they are) and I have mine.

Ah the old 'it's my opinion so it's bullet proof against criticism approach'.

What a load of shit. You have no idea what you are talking about. Your opinion is that of someone with no law enforcement experience or knowledge about such things beyond movies and video games you have played.

My favourite part is people calling some of them Heros because they 'thought' about trying to overpower him. I'm gonna think of curing cancer, better give me a noble prize.

Traumatic experience yes, but the criticism of what happened is unjustified and coming from people with 20/20 hindsight.

Quick, call Captain Hindsight!

 

[Craigshark]

Mate, I did say "I believe". Are you telling me I can't have an opinion?

Also, negotiations broke down almost immediately so how was it to end?

Are you telling me that two expert TRG snipers couldn't have taken this goose down because of bullet resistant (not proof) glass?

They knew who this lunatic was fairly quickly, therefore chances of a deadman switch was extremely minimal.

If there is no negotiation with terrorists, than how was it to end? The way did it or as I suggested a head and body shot by expert snipers.

You can't have it all mate. You have your opinions (and that is what they are) and I have mine.

You have no idea..

Go make a cup of coffee and sit back down in your armchair.

 

[azzah72]

Mate, I did say "I believe". Are you telling me I can't have an opinion?

Also, negotiations broke down almost immediately so how was it to end?

Are you telling me that two expert TRG snipers couldn't have taken this goose down because of bullet resistant (not proof) glass?

They knew who this lunatic was fairly quickly, therefore chances of a deadman switch was extremely minimal.

If there is no negotiation with terrorists, than how was it to end? The way did it or as I suggested a head and body shot by expert snipers.

You can't have it all mate. You have your opinions (and that is what they are) and I have mine.

Um..... Wow! I have no words....

I didn't even express an opinion at all other than thinking they did what they could.

 

[Gummyman]

Ah the old 'it's my opinion so it's bullet proof against criticism approach'.

What a load of shit. You have no idea what you are talking about. Your opinion is that of someone with no law enforcement experience or knowledge about such things beyond movies and video games you have played.

My favourite part is people calling some of them Heros because they 'thought' about trying to overpower him. I'm gonna think of curing cancer, better give me a noble prize.

Traumatic experience yes, but the criticism of what happened is unjustified and coming from people with 20/20 hindsight.

Quick, call Captain Hindsight!

And you do, oh please great one expand on your experience.

 

[Gummyman]

You have no idea..

Go make a cup of coffee and sit back down in your armchair.

White with two sugars, please.

 

[Gummyman]

Um..... Wow! I have no words....

I didn't even express an opinion at all other than thinking they did what they could.

You indicated you were presenting the facts, "thinking they did what they could" - is sir, an opinion.

 

[azzah72]

You indicated you were presenting the facts, "thinking they did what they could" - is sir, an opinion.

Based on the facts ...... sir

 

[jc155776]

And you do, oh please great one expand on your experience.

I do. There are people in this forum that know me and could attest. I won't expand beyond saying people who have never dOne the job always know better how it should be done.

 

[Gummyman]

I do. There are people in this forum that know me and could attest. I won't expand beyond saying people who have never dOne the job always know better how it should be done.

I don't know you mate, so I have no idea of your level of expertise. But please don't tell me you are general duties cop and therefore I should bow to your knowledge.

This issue is highly emotive and it is probably not a great idea to discuss on a footy thread.

 

[coolumsharkie]

The only thing I thought was a bit strange was the back door leading into the adjacent building where a few escaped earlier. Why the f**k didnt they have a TR outfit coming through the backdoor to take him out
? Considering the few that got out pretty easily and undetected..

 

[jc155776]

They didn't get out undetected though. The piece of shit knew and blasted one in the skull.

All came down to him threatening to have a bomb. If he had one everyone dies.

Until the time of the first shot no one had been killed. Generally the longer these things go the more likely of hostages not being hurt.

If weak as piss magistrates had him locked up in the first place would never have happened.

 

[Card Shark]

That's it in a nutshell!