Our predicted lineup R1

[Old Timer]

No idea what he weighs DQ but he does have some guns which will help with tackling and busting tackles I'd suggest. Good to see. He knew he had to bulk up and he seems to have done so.

He has never had muscles of note so you best start praying he doesn't pull or pop one of his new found attributes.
Interested you say "bust tackles" if you are quick enough you rarely have to do that.
Only time will tell if we have taken the speed and agility out of him by beefing him up because that is exactly what happened to a former light stepping FB we had.

 

[Drag Queen]

Seriously does it matter who's in tbe starting line up and how well we start 2018....weve done that in the past few years built up everyones hopes and dreams only to be slapped in the face from about round 13 onwards....so this year its reverse psychology....start crapp and come home with a wet sail.....saves all the arguing and disappointment later on......glad its basically a winter sport at least not every weekend the grass needs mowing from half time

Don't forget the hedges BSE. You can always take up topiary if things get drastic

 

[BennyV]

He has never had muscles of note so you best start praying he doesn't pull or pop one of his new found attributes.
Interested you say "bust tackles" if you are quick enough you rarely have to do that.
Only time will tell if we have taken the speed and agility out of him by beefing him up because that is exactly what happened to a former light stepping FB we had.

I cant think of many first grade fullbacks who dont have to worry about busting tackles...wingers, maybe, but fullbacks usually need to do that if they want to break the line.

But I agree, there's a real concern with bulking players up too quickly that agility drops (not necessarily speed) and risk of injury increases.

 

[BennyV]

Agree that Dugan could have been used a better way, but are there any examples of where this structure actually works?? Will he be used that way at the Sharks? Will he even play FB??

Last time a team won a comp with a fullback without a recognised passing game was the Roosters in 2013 (Minichello) And that was a team that contained Maloney, Jennings, SBW, RTS etc. All other premiership winning fullbacks in recent times..,,, Boyd, Brett Stewart, Slater, Barba, GI, Coote are all recognised passing FB’s and all had double digit try assists the year they won comps.

No coincidence that successful teams have FB’s with these skills. Agree that Dugan has a different skill set, but at over $800k a year, surely it should have been a part of his game he should have developed better.

Was GI considered a 'ball playing fullback' in 2014? I know he could throw a decent pass when needed (but let's be real, Dugan has the ability to pass, his issue was more his timing of when to pass - his 'instinct' for ball playing) but from memory he was definitely used heavily as a ball runner, and most of his passing came from offloads after busting a few tackles.

 

[BennyV]

I agree with pretty much all of this, excellent post and beautifully articulated. The only thing i'd say is that I actually thought Dufty was quite good under the high ball, seemed really safe and wasn't afraid to attack the ball under pressure. The main things he needs to work on is his kick returns, defence and organisation of the defensive line. First grade experience will give him the confidence to start barking orders at the boys, I can understand how that might be a little bit difficult when you first come into the side.

The other thing i'd say is that whilst you're 100% right about there being a Nathan Gardner for every Ben Barba, Dufty was a clear cut above the competition in NSW Cup, which is not all that far beneath the NRL. It's a clear step up, for sure, but he was carving them up week in week out and his first few games for us he made an immediate impact. I'll be interested to see how he adapts when opposition teams start to figure him out and counter him.

All of this will become moot when Lomax is ready though. Zac wants the fullback spot and when he's ready, he'll get it.

Agree that Dufty held up well under the high ball, but still has work to do - not sure how tested and targeted he was in his games last year but he's secured his spot now, so he has to work. And I'm not convinced he was a cut above in NSW Cup, I thought by the time he eased back from injury I thought he was holding his own and getting very comfortable, never really saw him as dominant.

 

[BennyV]

Whatever Millward states in public forum usually happens. - Dugan to be considered only as a centre = Dugan played centre
- Field to be first choice FB in 2018 then move into halves in latter years = Field will be 1st choice fullback
The grooming for Field at FB started last year in Reserve grade when a well established backline was shuffled around to accomodate Field at FB ..

I don't want to be the one that said I told u so- Dufty will rightly so start at FB this year - if he starts to falter though and Field is healthy he will slot straight in.. Can't see Mcgregor using WIDDOP at FB and jeopardising the halves combination.. Don't underestimate the control Millward has within the club..

Lol only just noticed this. Early entry for the Nathan Blacklock award for Backflip of the Year?!

 

[Crush]

He has never had muscles of note so you best start praying he doesn't pull or pop one of his new found attributes.
Interested you say "bust tackles" if you are quick enough you rarely have to do that.
Only time will tell if we have taken the speed and agility out of him by beefing him up because that is exactly what happened to a former light stepping FB we had.

Damned if you do damned if you don't here. He was too light to play NRL so he put on some muscle and now that he has done so you say hope he hasn't lost his speed. Well if he has lost some speed then so be it because its better than being a lightning quick never was.

 

[giboz71]

Was GI considered a 'ball playing fullback' in 2014? I know he could throw a decent pass when needed (but let's be real, Dugan has the ability to pass, his issue was more his timing of when to pass - his 'instinct' for ball playing) but from memory he was definitely used heavily as a ball runner, and most of his passing came from offloads after busting a few tackles.

Yep, GI wasn’t a recognised passer but he still had 11 try assists the year Souths won the comp (13 the year after).

He wasn’t a classic ball playing fullback but do remember some nice passes on sweep plays that led to tries those years.

As I’ve stated, he had the ability to add that bow to his arsenal and being the running threat he was, his ability to set up his wingers allowed him more room when he wanted to run ( thus scoring 13 tries in 2014 as well).

It’s a formula Josh should have used as well, but never did for us (yes he did have a passing game at the Raiders). But when it came down to it his tries and try assists totals compared to other elite fullbacks was pitifully low.

 

[Drag Queen]

Damned if you do damned if you don't here. He was too light to play NRL so he put on some muscle and now that he has done so you say hope he hasn't lost his speed. Well if he has lost some speed then so be it because its better than being a lightning quick never was.

I'm not questioning his speed mate but the manner in which he has muscled up too quickly. As Benny pointed out he is now at an increased risk of injury.

 

[possm]

Agree
lomax will be our long term centre with in two years imo

I'd say Lomax will be our centre/winger from mid 2018 this season. He will then become our long term fullback from 2019 on.

I really don't know what is in store for Field and Dufty given that there are a good few young outside backs with size and speed coming through. I just hope that form is the main criteria for selection in any position in first grade.

 

[dragonssamy61]

I'd say Lomax will be our centre/winger from mid 2018 this season. He will then become our long term fullback from 2019 on.

I really don't know what is in store for Field and Dufty given that there are a good few young outside backs with size and speed coming through. I just hope that form is the main criteria for selection in any position in first grade.

Possm
I agree re hopefully form is the main criteria.
But lomax is a long term centre.imo
He will replace lafai.
His finishes the end 2019.
I hope lomax gets a run on the wing then to the centres.
But only after he has played 6 games in revs.
Anyway we both agree he is a our future.

 

[Overseas dragon]

I'm not questioning his speed mate but the manner in which he has muscled up too quickly. As Benny pointed out he is now at an increased risk of injury.

No chance of injury if Mary has his way again throw the ball to mcslowcoach dufty no chance of getting hurt .......

 

[Dragon66]

I've watched and waited to see all my fellow poster's options and opinions before I ventured my thoughts about a Round 1 lineup. I expect there will be some disagreement on my line up, but hey, it's only my opinion! Blast away.

ROUND 1:

NRL SIDE RESERVE GRADE

1. M. Dufty 1. S Marsters
2. N McDonald 2. J Pereira
3. P Herbert 3. Z Lomax
4. T. Lafai 4 .K Mann
5. J. Nightingale 5. R Garrick
6. G Widdop 6. J Field
7. B Hunt 7. D Nicholls

8. J Graham 8. M Allgood
9. C McInnes 9. R Robson
10. P Vaughan 10 J Latimore
11. T Frizzell 11. J Kerr
12. T Simms 12. B Lawrie
13. J De Belin 13. H Sele

14. L AhMau 14. J. Ford
15. J Host 15. ?
16. L Leilua 16. ?
17. E. Aitken 17. T Sailor


I think that Patrick Herbert night be a smokey for a start.
He joined the first grade squad in 2016, was a Junior KIWI 2016 & 2017. Played the whole 2017 season in Intrust Cup, despite being eligible for NYC. Has played several first grade trails already, and is 21 years old and a sizeable 94kg. 2016 he scored 20 trys, last year he never missed a game and scored 8 trys, had a whopping 84 line breaks, made 250 tackles with 41 of those one on one, his tackle efficiency for the season was 73% but he was still an u/20, so no surprise He played 14 games as a centre and was involved in 11 try causes during that time. Pretty good.

As for Aitken, we know he can play in the backs, but his style of play means he could also be used as an interchange forward as well. Meaning a backline injury is covered, but four extra forwards can be rotated.
Aitken or Sims can go into the middle if needed.

I still have reservations about McDonald and Lafai, and we know that Widdop can go to fullback if required, so its up to our youngsters to shine in the reserves.
The reserve grade backline has all the players in the their right positions to be able to gain experience and make a statement for inclusion in the NRL side. And, finally, I think that Darren Nicholls steering the reggies around is going to be a big advantage for the development of our very talented juniors.

Plus we have plenty of first grade quality forwards in the reggies so depth should not be a problem.

All in all, even though my opinion of McGregor is low based on his record and the performance of the team since he has been in charge, I think this could well be our break out year,

I'm excited!!!

 

[Dragonslayer]

Possm
I agree re hopefully form is the main criteria.
But lomax is a long term centre.imo
He will replace lafai.
His finishes the end 2019.
I hope lomax gets a run on the wing then to the centres.
But only after he has played 6 games in revs.
Anyway we both agree he is a our future.

Agree Ds61
Lomax has centre written all over him and yes he'll replace either Lafai or Aitken depending on form etc. Our fullback situation is well covered with Dufty, Mann, Field and Masters (who is my long term choice but lets see in 2019 onwardsand is a junior Kiwi at 17) and if worst comes to worst we can utilize Widdop.
Lomax may get a run on the wing replacing probably Nighty (but maybe Nene if he doesnt show anything).
The trial game against Hull will be very interesting as i'm sure Hull will want to prove themselves so its a good opportunity to test some of these youngsters in Lomax, Herbert, Garrick and co to get a run and showbus where they're at. Same with the CS a week later.
Then we will have a clearer picture of where they are in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Old Timer]

Agree Ds61
Lomax has centre written all over him and yes he'll replace either Lafai or Aitken depending on form etc. Our fullback situation is well covered with Dufty, Mann, Field and Masters (who is my long term choice but lets see in 2019 onwardsand is a junior Kiwi at 17) and if worst comes to worst we can utilize Widdop.
Lomax may get a run on the wing replacing probably Nighty (but maybe Nene if he doesnt show anything).
The trial game against Hull will be very interesting as i'm sure Hull will want to prove themselves so its a good opportunity to test some of these youngsters in Lomax, Herbert, Garrick and co to get a run and showbus where they're at. Same with the CS a week later.
Then we will have a clearer picture of where they are in the grand scheme of things.

The only last years trials showed us was the coach has no idea whatsoever and we were in for a long hard year and I expect it to be a simple cut and paste this year.
Our trials will again be waisted and very little opportunity will be given to anyone not on Mc Fookknuckle's radar and that radar is all about so called experience with Latimore already being hailed as a >100 game veteran and he is being pushed forward in the media as if he is some player of importance.

 

[Crush]

I'm not questioning his speed mate but the manner in which he has muscled up too quickly. As Benny pointed out he is now at an increased risk of injury.

Well lets hope if he is to be our longterm fullback he isn't as injury prone as Dugan was!

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

I hearing about how good McDonald will be now we have Hunt to cross kick to his wing.....thats fine but the first thing he needs to work on is his ability to catch the ball instead of this habit he has of either jumping and missing it completely or batting it backwards on most occassions to nobody.....on a side note I keep looking at our backline for this season and with the exception of Widdop and Hunt theres still nothing there to get me excited....I hope Im wrong but I seriously have my doubts

 

[BennyV]

I've watched and waited to see all my fellow poster's options and opinions before I ventured my thoughts about a Round 1 lineup. I expect there will be some disagreement on my line up, but hey, it's only my opinion! Blast away.

ROUND 1:

NRL SIDE RESERVE GRADE

1. M. Dufty 1. S Marsters
2. N McDonald 2. J Pereira
3. P Herbert 3. Z Lomax
4. T. Lafai 4 .K Mann
5. J. Nightingale 5. R Garrick
6. G Widdop 6. J Field
7. B Hunt 7. D Nicholls

8. J Graham 8. M Allgood
9. C McInnes 9. R Robson
10. P Vaughan 10 J Latimore
11. T Frizzell 11. J Kerr
12. T Simms 12. B Lawrie
13. J De Belin 13. H Sele

14. L AhMau 14. J. Ford
15. J Host 15. ?
16. L Leilua 16. ?
17. E. Aitken 17. T Sailor


I think that Patrick Herbert night be a smokey for a start.
He joined the first grade squad in 2016, was a Junior KIWI 2016 & 2017. Played the whole 2017 season in Intrust Cup, despite being eligible for NYC. Has played several first grade trails already, and is 21 years old and a sizeable 94kg. 2016 he scored 20 trys, last year he never missed a game and scored 8 trys, had a whopping 84 line breaks, made 250 tackles with 41 of those one on one, his tackle efficiency for the season was 73% but he was still an u/20, so no surprise He played 14 games as a centre and was involved in 11 try causes during that time. Pretty good.

As for Aitken, we know he can play in the backs, but his style of play means he could also be used as an interchange forward as well. Meaning a backline injury is covered, but four extra forwards can be rotated.
Aitken or Sims can go into the middle if needed.

I still have reservations about McDonald and Lafai, and we know that Widdop can go to fullback if required, so its up to our youngsters to shine in the reserves.
The reserve grade backline has all the players in the their right positions to be able to gain experience and make a statement for inclusion in the NRL side. And, finally, I think that Darren Nicholls steering the reggies around is going to be a big advantage for the development of our very talented juniors.

Plus we have plenty of first grade quality forwards in the reggies so depth should not be a problem.

All in all, even though my opinion of McGregor is low based on his record and the performance of the team since he has been in charge, I think this could well be our break out year,

I'm excited!!!

Dont mind the line up and I agree on Herbert being ready when his chance comes. Not sure of the value of Aitken off the bench, and still disagree with Nightingale being a walk up starter but thats all been done before.

But my real question for these line ups where Simms starts in teh second row - what's the bench strategy? Other than Ah Mau, you've got got 2 specialist edge backrowers, one of whom is most effective as a long-minute player, and a centre being converted to a forwards (which would be far more effectively done with increase game time in reserve grade) who's never played in the middle and presumably will fill a role of 'in case of injury'.
Is the plan to play either Host or Leilua at prop? Because neither of them are anywhere near our 4th best prop.
Is the intention to rotate Simms or Friz to the middle? If so, why are they wasting their energy in the opening exchanges only to then be expected to maintain high intensity as a prop after 20 mins? Would be far better for them to start on the bench.
Or are we thinking of playing with a 3 prop, 4 backrow rotation? And who is to cover McInnes?

All well and good to say 'rotate 4 forwards' but there needs to be some logic behind it with only 8 interchanges. No point having a beast of a forward pack if we dont know how to use it.

 

[Drag Queen]

Well lets hope if he is to be our longterm fullback he isn't as injury prone as Dugan was!

I'm keeping an open mind Crush. It's apples and oranges at this stage. Can't compare because Dugan has a few more years experience and hence more injuries.

 

[Dragonslayer]

The only last years trials showed us was the coach has no idea whatsoever and we were in for a long hard year and I expect it to be a simple cut and paste this year.
Our trials will again be waisted and very little opportunity will be given to anyone not on Mc Fookknuckle's radar and that radar is all about so called experience with Latimore already being hailed as a >100 game veteran and he is being pushed forward in the media as if he is some player of importance.

Oh absolutely 100% agree.
The term "we" was referring to us the fans.
Im positive McGregor is salavating at the prospect of having another 100+ game veteran in the team.