Our predicted lineup R1

[Dragonslayer]

Dont mind the line up and I agree on Herbert being ready when his chance comes. Not sure of the value of Aitken off the bench, and still disagree with Nightingale being a walk up starter but thats all been done before.

But my real question for these line ups where Simms starts in teh second row - what's the bench strategy? Other than Ah Mau, you've got got 2 specialist edge backrowers, one of whom is most effective as a long-minute player, and a centre being converted to a forwards (which would be far more effectively done with increase game time in reserve grade) who's never played in the middle and presumably will fill a role of 'in case of injury'.
Is the plan to play either Host or Leilua at prop? Because neither of them are anywhere near our 4th best prop.
Is the intention to rotate Simms or Friz to the middle? If so, why are they wasting their energy in the opening exchanges only to then be expected to maintain high intensity as a prop after 20 mins? Would be far better for them to start on the bench.
Or are we thinking of playing with a 3 prop, 4 backrow rotation? And who is to cover McInnes?

All well and good to say 'rotate 4 forwards' but there needs to be some logic behind it with only 8 interchanges. No point having a beast of a forward pack if we dont know how to use it.

At thIs stage Sims has to be the bench prop along with LAM. Host should get first crack at the edge forward roll IMO.
If we go with 4 forwards on the bench then i'd have Leilua and Sele as the other 2.

 

[Dragonslayer]

I've watched and waited to see all my fellow poster's options and opinions before I ventured my thoughts about a Round 1 lineup. I expect there will be some disagreement on my line up, but hey, it's only my opinion! Blast away.

ROUND 1:

NRL SIDE RESERVE GRADE

1. M. Dufty 1. S Marsters
2. N McDonald 2. J Pereira
3. P Herbert 3. Z Lomax
4. T. Lafai 4 .K Mann
5. J. Nightingale 5. R Garrick
6. G Widdop 6. J Field
7. B Hunt 7. D Nicholls

8. J Graham 8. M Allgood
9. C McInnes 9. R Robson
10. P Vaughan 10 J Latimore
11. T Frizzell 11. J Kerr
12. T Simms 12. B Lawrie
13. J De Belin 13. H Sele

14. L AhMau 14. J. Ford
15. J Host 15. ?
16. L Leilua 16. ?
17. E. Aitken 17. T Sailor


I think that Patrick Herbert night be a smokey for a start.
He joined the first grade squad in 2016, was a Junior KIWI 2016 & 2017. Played the whole 2017 season in Intrust Cup, despite being eligible for NYC. Has played several first grade trails already, and is 21 years old and a sizeable 94kg. 2016 he scored 20 trys, last year he never missed a game and scored 8 trys, had a whopping 84 line breaks, made 250 tackles with 41 of those one on one, his tackle efficiency for the season was 73% but he was still an u/20, so no surprise He played 14 games as a centre and was involved in 11 try causes during that time. Pretty good.

As for Aitken, we know he can play in the backs, but his style of play means he could also be used as an interchange forward as well. Meaning a backline injury is covered, but four extra forwards can be rotated.
Aitken or Sims can go into the middle if needed.

I still have reservations about McDonald and Lafai, and we know that Widdop can go to fullback if required, so its up to our youngsters to shine in the reserves.
The reserve grade backline has all the players in the their right positions to be able to gain experience and make a statement for inclusion in the NRL side. And, finally, I think that Darren Nicholls steering the reggies around is going to be a big advantage for the development of our very talented juniors.

Plus we have plenty of first grade quality forwards in the reggies so depth should not be a problem.

All in all, even though my opinion of McGregor is low based on his record and the performance of the team since he has been in charge, I think this could well be our break out year,

I'm excited!!!

Your 2 missing bench for reverve grade ag thus stage will probably come from TJ Uele/Jay Gallagher as the prop and Ryan Fletcher as the bench hooker.

 

[watatank]

I think that the team posted is a good prediction of what McGregor will do but it would be a mistake to go with that forward rotation. If we go with that rotation we should start games really well but then we will just drop off like many times in the past. We need something more balanced. I'm probably the only one that thinks this but I would swap Ah Mau (starting prop) and Graham (interchange prop) and swap Sims (to play interchange prop) and Host (starting edge forward) to give the squad better balance.

 

[giboz71]

I think that the team posted is a good prediction of what McGregor will do but it would be a mistake to go with that forward rotation. If we go with that rotation we should start games really well but then we will just drop off like many times in the past. We need something more balanced. I'm probably the only one that thinks this but I would swap Ah Mau (starting prop) and Graham (interchange prop) and swap Sims (to play interchange prop) and Host (starting edge forward) to give the squad better balance.

Agree with Host starting and Sims to the bench (as prop), but what value is LAM starting with Graham on the bench??

 

[watatank]

Agree with Host starting and Sims to the bench (as prop), but what value is LAM starting with Graham on the bench??

Balance.

Ah Mau's role doesn't change that much no matter where he plays but I think that the team could benefit from Graham's defence and experience in the middle of games. We have had a tendency to drop off then and we don't seem to have this problem at the start of games. Also helps us when we are trying to develop players like Lawrie and Sele who aren't ready to start games.

 

[possm]

Balance.

Ah Mau's role doesn't change that much no matter where he plays but I think that the team could benefit from Graham's defence and experience in the middle of games. We have had a tendency to drop off then and we don't seem to have this problem at the start of games. Also helps us when we are trying to develop players like Lawrie and Sele who aren't ready to start games.

I would prefer a Vaughan / Graham start and a Sims / Ah Mahau bench mainly because I think Vaughan and Graham will get us on top in the forwards early and wear out the opposition. Sims will had thrust to our bench and Ah Mahau will hold firm just as always.

My preference was always for a fourth first grade prop to be purchased for 2018 with Sims and Frizell starting and Host and Leilua on the bench..

 

[RufusRex]

We have 2 x 80 minute back rowers in Sims/Frizell ... So people naming 3 back rowers on the bench ie host/leilua/Aitken are pretty much as bad as Mary in team selection an potential use of the bench.

Hunt will turn Frizz into the best right edge forward in the NRL (if he isn't already) .. playing him in the middle is just loony tunes.


Two props, an impact back rower and a hooker/util on the bench please ...

So that means - Ah Mau, ???, Leilua, ???

Our squad is still missing players. Otherwise we will just name blokes like Mann on then bench, not use him and wonder why we are run over at the end with tiring forwards.

Two bench props - straight swaps at the 20 minute and 60 minute mark ... 4 interchanges used and all 4 props play 40 minutes ... That is 4 of the 8 interchanges down

A bench hooker/lock type can come on and give breaks to McInnes/DeBelin ... We were so stupid to get rid of Havili ... That is 2-3 more interchanges used

A tactical use of the bench to inject a bloke like Leilua in for impact ..



We were so shit at the end of last year because we did things like play Frizz in the middle and waste 3 interchanges on him and then wonder why we have bench players with just 5 and 10 minutes used.

Ideally we have a player like Young starting at hooker play 15min there to open then bring on McInness and have the starting hooker move to lock to give JDB a break then sub off. 2 interchanges and you get 30 min from the starting hooker, 65 min from McInnes and DeBelin with the half time break also giving them a breather.

Do this and you ensure 40 minutes from 2 of our bench players, 65 from your third and a tactical injection from the 4th ...

 

[Carlton]

If you have an elite fullback commanding top $$, I think that fullback should have the capacity to adapt his game to suit the best game plan available, rather than everyone else having to adapt to him.

GI, Slater, RTS and Tedesco all good examples. All natural ball runners who developed passing games to suit modern attacking structures.

Shame Dugan didn't have it in him to do the same.

If you have a player that has a unique skill set you dont try to change that you develop a game plan that uses that players skills and the rest of the teams skills (you dont try to change them either) taking into consideration the oppositions strengths and weaknesses.

This crap about Dugan cant pass was because the sweep play we ran was so clunky and this was not Dugans fault alone. It started inside him with slow indecisive play from the halves and outside him with a lack of speed or block busting finishers to give the ball to.

 

[Old Timer]

I think that the team posted is a good prediction of what McGregor will do but it would be a mistake to go with that forward rotation. If we go with that rotation we should start games really well but then we will just drop off like many times in the past. We need something more balanced. I'm probably the only one that thinks this but I would swap Ah Mau (starting prop) and Graham (interchange prop) and swap Sims (to play interchange prop) and Host (starting edge forward) to give the squad better balance.

We have 2 x 80 minute back rowers in Sims/Frizell ... So people naming 3 back rowers on the bench ie host/leilua/Aitken are pretty much as bad as Mary in team selection an potential use of the bench.

Hunt will turn Frizz into the best right edge forward in the NRL (if he isn't already) .. playing him in the middle is just loony tunes.


Two props, an impact back rower and a hooker/util on the bench please ...

So that means - Ah Mau, ???, Leilua, ???

Our squad is still missing players. Otherwise we will just name blokes like Mann on then bench, not use him and wonder why we are run over at the end with tiring forwards.

Two bench props - straight swaps at the 20 minute and 60 minute mark ... 4 interchanges used and all 4 props play 40 minutes ... That is 4 of the 8 interchanges down

A bench hooker/lock type can come on and give breaks to McInnes/DeBelin ... We were so stupid to get rid of Havili ... That is 2-3 more interchanges used

A tactical use of the bench to inject a bloke like Leilua in for impact ..



We were so shit at the end of last year because we did things like play Frizz in the middle and waste 3 interchanges on him and then wonder why we have bench players with just 5 and 10 minutes used.

Ideally we have a player like Young starting at hooker play 15min there to open then bring on McInness and have the starting hooker move to lock to give JDB a break then sub off. 2 interchanges and you get 30 min from the starting hooker, 65 min from McInnes and DeBelin with the half time break also giving them a breather.

Do this and you ensure 40 minutes from 2 of our bench players, 65 from your third and a tactical injection from the 4th ...

Since when has Sims & Frizzell been 80 minute players?
Frizzell may be a chance when fully fit and of course so is De Belin but Sims is anything but an 80 minute player.

 

[RufusRex]

In 2 minutes of searching

Round 9 - Friz 80 minutes vs Storm ... 84 minutes vs the Roosters the week before
Round 23 - Sims 80 mins vs the Titans ... 80min vs the Broncs the following week ... Both games he was listed as playing front row but he played edge with Friz playing middle.

JDB plays 60-65 most weeks.

 

[RufusRex]

Sims 80 min round 25 as well .. only 72 in round 26 as Sele needed his 8 minutes ... (f**k YOU MARY)

 

[RufusRex]

I do concede that Sims could play 40 min prop from the bench and satisfy that part of the prop rotation with Host playing 80 at left edge.

I think though that Sims is our 2nd best edge forward in front of Host ... He is potentially our 4th best prop as well so that makes his selection open to interpretation.

The bigger issue is the 4th bench spot and ensuring we don't burn McInnes out ... his output waned throughout the season and running game definitely suffered at times because of it. Can play 80 but should play 65

 

[watatank]

In 2 minutes of searching

Round 9 - Friz 80 minutes vs Storm ... 84 minutes vs the Roosters the week before
Round 23 - Sims 80 mins vs the Titans ... 80min vs the Broncs the following week ... Both games he was listed as playing front row but he played edge with Friz playing middle.

JDB plays 60-65 most weeks.

What site? Just asking cos the nrl.com doesn’t have that info available at the moment

 

[RufusRex]

What site? Just asking cos the nrl.com doesn’t have that info available at the moment

nrlstats ... I had old cached links of games from last season in my browser.

 

[watatank]

Fair enough

 

[giboz71]

If you have a player that has a unique skill set you dont try to change that you develop a game plan that uses that players skills and the rest of the teams skills (you dont try to change them either) taking into consideration the oppositions strengths and weaknesses.

This crap about Dugan cant pass was because the sweep play we ran was so clunky and this was not Dugans fault alone. It started inside him with slow indecisive play from the halves and outside him with a lack of speed or block busting finishers to give the ball to.

Ummm...Nighty managed 5 try assists last year in his limited appearances at FB. Dufty managed 3 in 6 games. Both would have ended up with double digit TA’s if they played a full season at FB (which should be par for a FG fullback). All with the same players and same coach.

So no, I don’t agree with you. The lack of success running backline moves with Josh at FB was largely on him I’m afraid.

 

[Old Timer]

In 2 minutes of searching

Round 9 - Friz 80 minutes vs Storm ... 84 minutes vs the Roosters the week before
Round 23 - Sims 80 mins vs the Titans ... 80min vs the Broncs the following week ... Both games he was listed as playing front row but he played edge with Friz playing middle.

JDB plays 60-65 most weeks.

With all due respect a couple of instances dies not make them “80 minute” players and further more Frizz ended up badly busted so all the more reason too use him wisely not indiscriminately.
De Belin I think in 2016 plated 80 minutes a fair bit ( could be wrong) and has shown his fitness levels and endurance are more suited to 80 than almost everyone else but again he got busted last year on the back of the extra workload he took on as everyone around him got even more busted.
The rotation is not easy but relying on a couple of 80 minute players to get it right is a very dangerous plan IMO.

 

[BennyV]

I do concede that Sims could play 40 min prop from the bench and satisfy that part of the prop rotation with Host playing 80 at left edge.

I think though that Sims is our 2nd best edge forward in front of Host ... He is potentially our 4th best prop as well so that makes his selection open to interpretation.

The bigger issue is the 4th bench spot and ensuring we don't burn McInnes out ... his output waned throughout the season and running game definitely suffered at times because of it. Can play 80 but should play 65

As I've mentioned, the drop from Simms to our next best edged back rower (Host) is far les than our drop to our next best prop. Plus Host wouldnt need to play 80mins on the edge, he would be building to that but ideally you'd use that spot to rotate him and Leilua until you can find a way for Leilua to provide impact in the middle.

 

[RufusRex]

its more than a couple though and I understand what you are saying ... I also do not know what the root of Frizell's injury was - was it impact or stress .. I know that when he struggled to play minutes the bench rotations went pear shaped and we lost a lot of momentum/consistency.

If you go host as the starting back rower and Sims off the bench as a prop and you lost one of Friz/Host early then you could put sims in there and rely on Graham/Vaughan playing longer minutes or use Leilua
for more than a 20 minute impact cameo.

Also I have no doubt that Friz/Sims/Host could play centre if we lost one of them early in the game.

To me though, the bench player we must have and don't is the one who can play Hooker/Lock ... It completes the puzzle and gives us a reasonable amount of flexibility. I do prefer a Havili style util on the bench over a Mann style one.

I will be interested to see how Havili goes at Canberra - hoping that he proves Mary to be a dolt (although not when he plays us).

 

[BennyV]

With all due respect a couple of instances dies not make them “80 minute” players and further more Frizz ended up badly busted so all the more reason too use him wisely not indiscriminately.
De Belin I think in 2016 plated 80 minutes a fair bit ( could be wrong) and has shown his fitness levels and endurance are more suited to 80 than almost everyone else but again he got busted last year on the back of the extra workload he took on as everyone around him got even more busted.
The rotation is not easy but relying on a couple of 80 minute players to get it right is a very dangerous plan IMO.

PLaying 80mins as an edge backrower and 80mins as a lock are two very different beasts. Friz is definitely an 80minute edge backrower, the only time he gets substituted is when McMoron playing him in the middle for strange reasons.

PLaying JDB for 80 minutes all season would result in a monstrous burnout, and quickly (similar to McInnes). He's got the ability to pull it off if needed but you'd be mad to rely on it all year.