Pacific Championships 2024

[taste2taste]

Rather than write a new post I'll just copy and paste my post from the NZ section version of this thread. With obligatory congratulations to Tonga first since this is an all comers thread.

Two days later and I'm still pee-d off at this result. Rant incoming.

That was a pathetic display from selections down to the poor game management at the end.

I 100% do not buy into any claims we were the underdogs due to a weakened team. Even with a weakened team we should have won. The fact is we got to within 1 point after a first half where we shed 24 points and could barely complete a set without an error and then we should have put the game away before the Tongans got their drop goal.

It was rank stupidity to go into this series with a plan to play a fullback who had an average season as our starting 6, instead of a guy who genuinely had a good season at 6. Love Stacey as a player but getting Kidwell vibes from him as a coach.

The big names in our pack didn't fire a shot in the first half, then came right in the second, if they'd done it from the start we'd have won that.

We made Tui look like a competent half in that first 40, and fat Taumololo look like he was good again.

AFB was never going to pass that close to the line, why hang off him? They did it late in the game too, just hit him when he starts dancing around. TBF getting him to the ground is easier said than done but at least freaking try.

Why was Niukore playing and Riki sitting in the stands. Niukore living off a couple of good years rep, he was mostly mud this year when not injured.

The NZ crowd was pathetic. Turn up for the Warriors yet allow Tonga to take over the ground for test rugby.

Rant over (for now).

Good things. Loved the passion that Crossland showed playing for the Kiwis, he seems like another Foran who will give his all for us despite being raised in Oz. Neame has had great impact. Kini is a talent, a pity he was expected to play 1 and 6 at the same time.

Other things. I dislike Ka Mate so much prefer the Kiwis own haka.

I don't care about Origin from the point of view of players playing for Tonga. There's not many in that team I consider genuine players who really wanted to be Kiwis, Fat Taumalolo yep back in the day, but even a guy like AFB is tenuous, he only used us because he wasn't picked by Tonga. Our NZ Samoans have mostly stayed loyal too. But I think since we're getting beaten by supposed tier 2 teams then is should be opened up to NZers and Origin, therefore guys like Howarth and Ponga could play origin and NZ.

Was going to go to the game next week (Commbank is a great stadium) but my two mates have both said they're not keen after that display. So now, I'm not sure what I'll do. The ticket price would have been fine for two games, but I'll likely bugger off after the Kiwis match as I hate both those two teams playing the final.

In fairness Tonga were coming off a weeks rest, they had all the running in the first half, just like Australia will be all over Tonga in the final with a week off. Don’t underestimate how big a week off is, that’s why teams 1 and 2 are rewarded with a week off in the nrl. The current model is deeply flawed until we have 4 teams.

Its arguable if Kodi would have been better at 6, in attack he would have been much better but defensively he’ll be targeted and Tonga would have got quick play the balls.

This game was played at breakneck speed, it was spectacular to watch, a lot of the mistakes or miss tackles you talk about happened under extreme fatigue. We see the same in origin towards the back end of halfs players making poor decisions. At least we didn’t have a repeat of the cam Murray try in the WC were b.smith was too gassed to even put an arm out.

i agree its a poor showing by NZ fans not to show up for the national team, the only excuse is higher ticket prices ? Or maybe the sell out warriors crowds are largely made up of Samoans and Tongans ??

I agree about the coach, turning down Bennett was insanity. And thinking Madge was going to undermine the team ror origin was also cuckoo.

 

[Wb1234]

Kini was useless at one should’ve been cnk

Nikorima is dangerous at six and they brought him on late and he made a difference

Getting j.hughes back next year will paper over the cracks but nz were awful. Their forwards got monstered

 

[mikail-eagle]

Didn’t Laybutt play yesterday?

Kyle Laybutt played.
His brother Zac Laybutt from the Cowboys did he ACL early in the NRL Season.

 

[Matua]

The Final is the 4pm game.

That's flippin weird.

 

[RedVee]

That's flippin weird.

Correct.
It seems a channel 9 decision so that the Kangaroos lead into their 6pm News.

 

[Billythekid]

Disagree. Giving Fiji, PNG & Cook Islands and hopefully later other the chance to win their way to playing against the best countries in the world is a great point of difference for this competition.

Even if NZ or Tonga got relegated, those nations playing the Bowl against Fiji and PNG or whichever way it falls is still the pinnacle for NZ/Tonga and a great opportunity for the other nations.

If it was automatic relegation I’d be against it. I.e. bottom of Cup drops down and top of Bowl goes up but having the playoff game means nations have to earn their place.

You talk about giving opportunities to countries like PNG but you could achieve that by just having them in the pacific cup in the first place. The way to get teams like PNG up to speed with the other countries isn’t to try to make them earn their way in with a 1 off match that they’re unlikely to win, you just put them in there and let them improve. I feel the logic here is counterintuitive, the only way to earn their right to play the teams you need to play to improve is to be good enough to beat them already.

To me it seems like the difference between how union and league approach this. When union wanted to add Italy to the six nations or Argentina to the four nations they didn’t make them have a playoff for the tournament right?

To me it just seems ludicrous that we don’t have PNG in the cup already at the very least. They have a good local comp, a QLD cup team and likely soon an NRL team. They also add potentially a lot of fans and interest in this tournament. Improving PNG on the international stage is hugely beneficial to the game of league so we should be pushing for their inclusion not just hoping they magically catch up.

IMO if you want a tournament where the teams have to earn their place you watch the World Cup.

 

[Wb1234]

Trying to avoid mismatches

Cooks and Fiji would struggle against nz and aus

Samoa and Tonga are the only ones that come close to giving them a good game

PNG isn’t far off though

 

[RedVee]

Trying to avoid mismatches

Cooks and Fiji would struggle against nz and aus

Samoa and Tonga are the only ones that come close to giving them a good game

PNG isn’t far off though

And PNG to give a good game to Fiji

 

[RedVee]

Watching PNG this year has given me some more confidence about team 19

 

[Billythekid]

Avoiding mismatches whilst watching Cook Islands get toweled up. It’s pretty unfair to compare PNG and Fiji to the Cook Islands. I’d say they’re both closer to Tonga and Samoa than Cook Islands is to them.

PNG also has a huge amount of potential and the risk of a few blowouts is well worth it IMO.

I guess if you add PNG then Fiji kinda misses out but how much opportunity did they get anyway? They got to thrash the Cook Islands and play one game against PNG. You could just have Fiji play PNG in the lead up to the cup and they’re getting about as much opportunity.

 

[Bulldog2020]

I know it doesn't fit the Pacific name. But bringing in, say France & Lebanon. And having two comps of four teams would have been much better

 

[wain]

If we want to keep it based on teams that border the Pacific Ocean (which makes sense), here's what id propose.
Most be 4 teams in each, IMO. That gives 4 games a weekend. Fri night, Sat arvo, Sat night, Sun arvo. Id host most games in Aus/NZ for finance reasons, with the other nations getting one home match per comp. For the bowl, you could look to move games around a little more...but probably still have final and relegation match in Aus/NZ.

Cup (4 teams from 5, with one of these to either host or visit Eng every year):
Aus
NZ
Samoa
Tonga
PNG


Bowl (4 teams):
Fiji
Cook Is
USA
Japan/Philippines/Singapore

 

[Perth Red]

I know it doesn't fit the Pacific name. But bringing in, say France & Lebanon. And having two comps of four teams would have been much better

Cook Is are on same level of France and Lebanon you'd think?
We need another nation at same level as PNG and Fiji
then you have the 5 top nations

in terms of competitive games

 

[Billythekid]

If we want to keep it based on teams that border the Pacific Ocean (which makes sense), here's what id propose.
Most be 4 teams in each, IMO. That gives 4 games a weekend. Fri night, Sat arvo, Sat night, Sun arvo. Id host most games in Aus/NZ for finance reasons, with the other nations getting one home match per comp. For the bowl, you could look to move games around a little more...but probably still have final and relegation match in Aus/NZ.

Cup (4 teams from 5, with one of these to either host or visit Eng every year):
Aus
NZ
Samoa
Tonga
PNG


Bowl (4 teams):
Fiji
Cook Is
USA
Japan/Philippines/Singapore

This is a ludicrous setup IMO. Just add Fiji to the cup and scrap the bowl.

Cook Is are on same level of France and Lebanon you'd think?
We need another nation at same level as PNG and Fiji
then you have the 5 top nations

in terms of competitive games

Adding teams from the NH doesn’t seem like the solution to me. Just increases costs whilst doing little to add interest to the tournaments.

The only way I can see us incorporating more NH teams is if we do something like the old four nations where it alternates hemispheres and you change teams each time (like say alternating PNG and France each year or something).

I feel like it’s all overcomplicted. This year we have the cup and the bowl which only have like 3 games each and have the weird setup where teams don’t play every week. Just simplify it into one tournament.

 

[Jim from Oz]

A News Corpse report today says 6000 tickets were sold within hours of Tonga's win over New Zealand in Auckland on Saturday night …

 

[Perth Red]

This is a ludicrous setup IMO. Just add Fiji to the cup and scrap the bowl.

Adding teams from the NH doesn’t seem like the solution to me. Just increases costs whilst doing little to add interest to the tournaments.

The only way I can see us incorporating more NH teams is if we do something like the old four nations where it alternates hemispheres and you change teams each time (like say alternating PNG and France each year or something).

I feel like it’s all overcomplicted. This year we have the cup and the bowl which only have like 3 games each and have the weird setup where teams don’t play every week. Just simplify it into one tournament.

Few things at play. Competitiveness of games. Blow outs dont help the Int games rep. Fiji and PNG would probably be cannon fodder for the other 3.

Govt funding. Feds have funded a lot of the this and wants games played in PNG and Fiji accordingly.

Next year they could have a 5 nations. PNG,NZ, Tonga, Samoa and Fiji. Plus the ashes series. That'd make for great viewing with 3mens games and some women's games each weekend.

Instead it'll likely be NZ, Tonga and Samoa and same three in the bowl with likely same bowl results.

 

[Billythekid]

Few things at play. Competitiveness of games. Blow outs dont help the Int games rep. Fiji and PNG would probably be cannon fodder for the other 3.

Govt funding. Feds have funded a lot of the this and wants games played in PNG and Fiji accordingly.

Next year they could have a 5 nations. PNG,NZ, Tonga, Samoa and Fiji. Plus the ashes series. That'd make for great viewing with 3mens games and some women's games each weekend.

Instead it'll likely be NZ, Tonga and Samoa and same three in the bowl with likely same bowl results.

I’m confused by your post. You seem
To be disagreeing with me but you essentially suggested exactly what I did which was to include PNG and Fiji alongside NZ/Tonga/Samoa. I’m also not sure how that stops games being played in PNG and Fiji. If anything both teams would get more games and more opportunities to play at home.

As for the competitiveness affecting the international game badly there is no actual evidence of that. I also think PNG and Fiji and can put up a better fight against some of these teams than is being implied (Fiji got within a try of beating NZ last World Cup right?). It’s not like both Samoa and Tonga haven’t had some really poor results in recent years as well.

PNG have a local comp and soon potentially an NRL team if any team outside of NZ/Australia/England deserves to keep a spot in these tournaments it’s them.

 

[Matua]

I know it doesn't fit the Pacific name. But bringing in, say France & Lebanon. And having two comps of four teams would have been much better

I think Lebanon makes sense as the majority of the players are in Oz anyway.

I don't think the Pacific name means too much, technically Oz has a tiny point of Tasmania that "officially" touches the Pacific.

 

[jim_57]

Trying to avoid mismatches

Cooks and Fiji would struggle against nz and aus

Samoa and Tonga are the only ones that come close to giving them a good game

PNG isn’t far off though

Fiji this year? Sure, but not really fair to lump them in with Cook Islands IMO. Last 2 times Fiji have played NZ they won by 2 and lost by 6.

Fiji have many Fijian born players and aren’t purely reliant on heritage guys. The Catch 22 is I don’t see the likes of Koroisau, Bula & the Saifitis helping out often whilst Fiji are in tier 2, but without players like them Fiji will likely never make it out of tier 2. Of all the Island nations they seem to get the least commitment from the heritage guys.

These things go in waves though, in 5 years Samoa and/or Tonga’s heritage buy-in might drop off, likewise Fiji’s could increase.

 

[Perth Red]

I’m confused by your post. You seem
To be disagreeing with me but you essentially suggested exactly what I did which was to include PNG and Fiji alongside NZ/Tonga/Samoa. I’m also not sure how that stops games being played in PNG and Fiji. If anything both teams would get more games and more opportunities to play at home.

As for the competitiveness affecting the international game badly there is no actual evidence of that. I also think PNG and Fiji and can put up a better fight against some of these teams than is being implied (Fiji got within a try of beating NZ last World Cup right?). It’s not like both Samoa and Tonga haven’t had some really poor results in recent years as well.

PNG have a local comp and soon potentially an NRL team if any team outside of NZ/Australia/England deserves to keep a spot in these tournaments it’s them.

I can see why they havent done it, but I agree with you a 5nations format would be better. and nows the best time to do as Aus is over in UK next year, then RLWC then NZ are allegedly going to tour UK so that means you could have a pacific 5 nations in 2025 and 2027. Looks like we are stuck with the current format though.

You could have a 3 nations with France, Cook Is and Lebanon as well but probably not going to happen due to cost v ROI. .