Parramatta Stadium Rebuild and other stuff

[Gronk]

Ping @Suitman

Good to see merkins taking on Fitzwhatshisname.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I'm going to get flamed here for saying this but Bandana boy has a point.

Do we really need to knock down all three stadiums and rebuild them?

Can SFS and ANZ be partially renovated instead of being rebuilt?

Do we really need to do anything to the SFS. Is it a just a token inclusion because of some powerful, rich, politically connected whingers?

Could we have rebuilt 2 instead of 3?

Why not make the stadium at Parra a massive big f**k off one that replaces ANZ? Much better access to public transport and facilities given the growth in Parramatta.

On the surface, it doesn't really seem like the best overall option for Sydney and the state of NSW.

The NSW Government is trying to be everything to everyone instead of showing some genuine leadership and long term planning.

 

[Gronk]

Bandana Boy is hanging his hat on the "no demand" claim. Which is total crap.

SFS is full of concrete cancer and offers a poor game day experience with only 15% of seats under cover. It services 3 major teams across 3 codes. with the new light rail opening soon, the Moore Park precinct will be accessable and it is anticipated that patronage to the SFS SCG Hordern Hall Of Industries EQ will increase hugely.

ANZ also offers a poor game day experience and the major city in AU deserves to have a premier stadium. Melbourne have a bunch, Adelaide just spent a trillion and Perth are about to open theirs (below).

This is not about keeping up with the Joneses, it's about recognising that stadia is just as much infrastructure as other services.

Just on schools hospitals etc, FMD look around. Nearly every hospital you drive past is getting new buildings all the time. RHS, Randwick Childrens, Prince of Wales, Westmead and Gosford are all getting huge work done right now. They are just what I have seen and I'm sure that there are many many others.

Mount Druitt and Blacktown Hospitals are undergoing huge works too.

http://www.bmdhproject.health.nsw.gov.au/

Hornsby Hospital $200M project

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...s/news-story/dd181e1247d16adf864d8e443bfbca29

I reckon I could sit here all day and I bet every Hospital is getting work.

There are huge roads works being undertaken with the joining of the M1 to M5 (North Connex), Westconnex .

Rail there is the Castle Hill Line. They are just now starting to build the new Sydney Metro with new lines running amok under Martin Place with new stations all over including Barangaroo.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I agree that his demand comment is stupid but all of my other points are valid.

Something needs to be done to improve the stadium situation. No question about that at all.

But, is knocking down and re-building all 3 the best option?

Where is the stadium master planning and assessment of strategic options for the state? It seems like a largely political decision where 'every child gets a prize'.

$2.5B is being thrown around but I doubt that is where the final number will end up.

Completely rebuilding the 3 main stadiums in quick succession is definitely the 'booyah' approach. Nothing wrong with questioning whether a less political and more structured process might have yielded better plan and resultant outcome.

 

[Gronk]

I agree that his demand comment is stupid but all of my other points are valid.

Something needs to be done to improve the stadium situation. No question about that at all.

But, is knocking down and re-building all 3 the best option?

Where is the stadium master planning and assessment of strategic options for the state? It seems like a largely political decision where 'every child gets a prize'.

$2.5B is being thrown around but I doubt that is where the final number will end up.

Completely rebuilding the 3 main stadiums in quick succession is definitely the 'booyah' approach. Nothing wrong with questioning whether a less political and more structured process might have yielded better plan and resultant outcome.

@Suitman will tell you that renovating / reconfigering structures can cost close to starting again and a reconfigured updated stadium will not have the life of a new build nor would be as good.

Merkins use the MCG and LA Stadiums as examples of stadia that have been updated rather than bulldozed. Very convenient argument except that LA is listed by UNESCO and MCG as a heritage landmark by the AU Gov.

http://www.environment.gov.au/heritage/places/national/mcg

 

[strider]

Bandana Boy is hanging his hat on the "no demand" claim. Which is total crap.

SFS is full of concrete cancer and offers a poor game day experience with only 15% of seats under cover. It services 3 major teams across 3 codes. with the new light rail opening soon, the Moore Park precinct will be accessable and it is anticipated that patronage to the SFS SCG Hordern Hall Of Industries EQ will increase hugely.

ANZ also offers a poor game day experience and the major city in AU deserves to have a premier stadium. Melbourne have a bunch, Adelaide just spent a trillion and Perth are about to open theirs (below).

This is not about keeping up with the Joneses, it's about recognising that stadia is just as much infrastructure as other services.

Just on schools hospitals etc, FMD look around. Nearly every hospital you drive past is getting new buildings all the time. RHS, Randwick Childrens, Prince of Wales, Westmead and Gosford are all getting huge work done right now. They are just what I have seen and I'm sure that there are many many others.

Mount Druitt and Blacktown Hospitals are undergoing huge works too.

http://www.bmdhproject.health.nsw.gov.au/

Hornsby Hospital $200M project

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...s/news-story/dd181e1247d16adf864d8e443bfbca29

I reckon I could sit here all day and I bet every Hospital is getting work.

There are huge roads works being undertaken with the joining of the M1 to M5 (North Connex), Westconnex .

Rail there is the Castle Hill Line. They are just now starting to build the new Sydney Metro with new lines running amok under Martin Place with new stations all over including Barangaroo.

Sorry but fixing the run down shit public hospitals we have with new buildings is a necessity ... and the problem is they are just upgrading what we have while the population goes nuts ... the health system already struggles

And the transport upgrades are so overdue it is ridiculous ... and all they do is solve a fraction of the existing issues for a few parts of the city ... with the ridiculous amount of development going on, give it another 10 yrs and we will be behind the 8 ball again and up shit creek

Sorry, but making new stadiums is f**king low priority in my books ... and before you say it again, yes opera houses and libraries are too

 

[strider]

@Suitman will tell you that renovating / reconfigering structures can cost close to starting again and a reconfigured updated stadium will not have the life of a new build nor would be as good.

Merkins use the MCG and LA Stadiums as examples of stadia that have been updated rather than bulldozed. Very convenient argument except that LA is listed by UNESCO and MCG as a heritage landmark by the AU Gov.

http://www.environment.gov.au/heritage/places/national/mcg

There is nothing technically wrong with the olympic stadium ... boo f**king hoo i sit too far away .... parra is done fairly cheap, so be it ... if allianz is as bad as people say with concrete cancer then fine go for it, but ANZ is not necessary

 

[Twizzle]

There is nothing technically wrong with the olympic stadium

it has been reported that the structural integrity has been affected by the calcification of some of the concrete structure, so technically there is

as to whether it requires demolishing and rebuilding may be another issue

 

[Gary Gutful]

it has been reported that the structural integrity has been affected by the calcification of some of the concrete structure, so technically there is

as to whether it requires demolishing and rebuilding may be another issue

You imagine that when it was built it was expected to last longer than 19 years.

Can they chase the construction company if it is inspected and determined that it should be demolished?

 

[Twizzle]

You imagine that when it was built it was expected to last longer than 19 years.

Can they chase the construction company if it is inspected and determined that it should be demolished?

building life cycles are generally about 20 years, so there is virtually no chance of going after the builder or structural engineer after 19 years

although most building are still in use after 20 years and if financially viable they may get a make over, but they dont all of a sudden just fall down

when we do inspections if we think the calcification is bad we xray it and determine from there

although I've never inspected ANZ I seriously doubt it is about to fall over next year, Strider has a point but no doubt this is a politically motivated decision

 

[Gary Gutful]

building life cycles are generally about 20 years, so there is virtually no chance of going after the builder or structural engineer after 19 years

although most building are still in use after 20 years and if financially viable they may get a make over, but they dont all of a sudden just fall down

when we do inspections if we think the calcification is bad we xray it and determine from there

although I've never inspected ANZ I seriously doubt it is about to fall over next year, Strider has a point but no doubt this is a politically motivated decision

Thanks mate. Makes sense.

 

[strider]

it has been reported that the structural integrity has been affected by the calcification of some of the concrete structure, so technically there is

as to whether it requires demolishing and rebuilding may be another issue

So BOTH allianz and anz are falling apart? .... i call bullshit

 

[forward pass]

Sorry but fixing the run down shit public hospitals we have with new buildings is a necessity ... and the problem is they are just upgrading what we have while the population goes nuts ... the health system already struggles

And the transport upgrades are so overdue it is ridiculous ... and all they do is solve a fraction of the existing issues for a few parts of the city ... with the ridiculous amount of development going on, give it another 10 yrs and we will be behind the 8 ball again and up shit creek

Sorry, but making new stadiums is f**king low priority in my books ... and before you say it again, yes opera houses and libraries are too

Not totally disagreeing but the 2.5 billion being spent on these stadiums will (according to Govt figures) bring in over 10 billion of revenue into the state through events etc that we can not currently cater for.

That will give the State up $10billion potentially to spend on hospitals and schools - rather than 2.5 billion - less what it would cost to fix up those two grounds (at least 500 million?). Sounds like a pretty good investment in my opinion.

 

[Gary Gutful]

So BOTH allianz and anz are falling apart? .... i call bullshit

The concrete cancer appears contagious.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Not totally disagreeing but the 2.5 billion being spent on these stadiums will (according to Govt figures) bring in over 10 billion of revenue into the state through events etc that we can not currently cater for.

That will give the State up $10billion potentially to spend on hospitals and schools - rather than 2.5 billion - less what it would cost to fix up those two grounds (at least 500 million?). Sounds like a pretty good investment in my opinion.

I've seen that mentioned before but I'd be interested in see the studies that underpin such a claim. I'm not saying it's bullshit but it does seem a little far fetched.

 

[Twizzle]

I'd say its being put forward as a convenient argument for political gain

 

[Gary Gutful]

Yep if all the so called benefits of these major government projects had materialised in the last 20 years we'd be the wealthiest country in the world.

 

[forward pass]

I've seen that mentioned before but I'd be interested in see the studies that underpin such a claim. I'm not saying it's bullshit but it does seem a little far fetched.

Well at the very least - it will ensure the NRL Grand Final stays in Sydney so potentially a billion or so in that (yes I have plucked that figure from my arse - agreed).

Plus it would host major football (soccer) matches that would normally be hijacked by Melbourne.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Well at the very least - it will ensure the NRL Grand Final stays in Sydney so potentially a billion or so in that (yes I have plucked that figure from my arse - agreed).

Plus it would host major football (soccer) matches that would normally be hijacked by Melbourne.

You did pluck it out of your arse but it is probably still more robust that any of the NSW Government's numbers

 

[Gronk]

The Vic Gov spend $70m per year for the F1 rights plus another $50m to stage it. So over 10 years they would have spent the same as a new $1.5b ANZ stadium. They actually have no infrastructure to show for it, however the income it brings in far out weighs the expenditure.