Paul Kent: NRL salary cap isn't working

[Noname36]

Newcastle recently went on a huge player buying binge, they signed like 3 current internationals over two years a long with a shitload of other players coming in those two years so how disadvanteged can they be?

Newcastle's buying spree in the past few seasons is a bit deceptive. Pretty much all the players signed were either locals that wanted to come home, Bennett's boys that would follow him anywhere, or blokes that'd been sacked or unwanted by their clubs.

It's not like we're ever going to sign anyone like a Burgess or an Inglis or really any player that's really in much demand. It takes a vey special 20-something-year-old to be on large money and happy living in Newcastle instead of Sydney.

 

[chrisD]

There is no 600k cap on third party deals. There is a 600k cap on clubs guaranteeing third party deals.

Right, so it's not a club deal, they're not part of any club contract. They are third party deals independent of the club.

As I said, where are all these independent deals that apparently add up to an additional $1.4m for at least one club over the $600k that clubs can organise and include in a playing contract?

Because despite all the talk as though it's a given I'm not seeing an avalanche of dogs or roosters players advertising random shit as I would expect to be the case if this is actually true.

 

[betcats]

Newcastle's buying spree in the past few seasons is a bit deceptive. Pretty much all the players signed were either locals that wanted to come home, Bennett's boys that would follow him anywhere, or blokes that'd been sacked or unwanted by their clubs.

It's not like we're ever going to sign anyone like a Burgess or an Inglis or really any player that's really in much demand. It takes a vey special 20-something-year-old to be on large money and happy living in Newcastle instead of Sydney.

Some good points here about the players you bought but lots of clubs will never have a chance sign a top 5 player. Penrith threw absolutely everything we had at Thurston and couldnt get him. Im not saying some clubs arent disadvantaged but I think it is being overblown a bit. Finding a way to even out FTA exposure would help but there isnt really a better way of doing it. You can't deny players the oppurtunity to earn that third party money.

 

[Noname36]

Some good points here about the players you bought but lots of clubs will never have a chance sign a top 5 player. Penrith threw absolutely everything we had at Thurston and couldnt get him. Im not saying some clubs arent disadvantaged but I think it is being overblown a bit. Finding a way to even out FTA exposure would help but there isnt really a better way of doing it. You can't deny players the oppurtunity to earn that third party money.

I think Penrith is at a disadvantage there to some of the more "glamour" Sydney clubs, but the difference there is that the Knights wouldn't even bother trying to sign someone like Thurston to begin with because they'd know that they would have to offer him like 2million dollars before his manager would even take our call.

For us it's not about crying because we can't sign a top 5 player. That's just not something we've ever dared to dream about because we know it'll never happen. It's the fact that once in a while we produce some very good juniors that we'd like to be able to hang on to. The Bulldogs offered Sione Mata'utia 450k last season when he'd barely played a game of first grade. That was well before he was even talked up as a potential Aussie rep. You can bet there's no way they could afford to have that 450k coming out of their salary cap for an 18-year-old rookie. It was mostly TP. How are clubs like the Knights and Raiders supposed to compete with that type of thing when some clubs are offering nearly half a million dollars to f**king rookies?

 

[betcats]

I think Penrith is at a disadvantage there to some of the more "glamour" Sydney clubs, but the difference there is that the Knights wouldn't even bother trying to sign someone like Thurston to begin with because they'd know that they would have to offer him like 2million dollars before his manager would even take our call.

For us it's not about crying because we can't sign a top 5 player. That's just not something we've ever dared to dream about because we know it'll never happen. It's the fact that once in a while we produce some very good juniors that we'd like to be able to hang on to. The Bulldogs offered Sione Mata'utia 450k last season when he'd barely played a game of first grade. That was well before he was even talked up as a potential Aussie rep. You can bet there's no way they could afford to have that 450k coming out of their salary cap for an 18-year-old rookie. It was mostly TP. How are clubs like the Knights and Raiders supposed to compete with that type of thing when some clubs are offering nearly half a million dollars to f**king rookies?

How does any club compete against Brisbane? Or the Roosters? The comp will never be completely even and this might not be the best way of doing things but I havent seen any better systems yet.

 

[DiegoNT]

When was the last time a side won a premiership with a side packed with brought players? The cap rewards teams that can develop and keep their own players

 

[Noname36]

How does any club compete against Brisbane? Or the Roosters? The comp will never be completely even and this might not be the best way of doing things but I havent seen any better systems yet.

I think one of the simplest ways is to introduce salary cap exemptions for juniors ( and better ones for long-term club players) so even if clubs like the Knights, Penrith, Raiders, Tigers, Dragons, etc can't compete with the third party money being thrown around they still are in with a real chance of holding onto their players due to part of the money not counting under the cap. Better yet make part of their contracts NRL funded as well so it encourages more clubs to invest in development to also get the advantages.

It shouldn't be only for local juniors because obviously some clubs like the Roosters are disadvantaged there from the start but I think the longer a player has been developed by a club the more their salaries should be exempt from the cap when they make first grade. I also think the NRL should consider capping or maybe even standardising the amount of money kids are allowed to receive before hitting first grade as at the moment most of the poaching is occurring just before they hit first grade.

 

[betcats]

I think one of the simplest ways is to introduce salary cap exemptions for juniors ( and better ones for long-term club players) so even if clubs like the Knights, Penrith, Raiders, Tigers, Dragons, etc can't compete with the third party money being thrown around they still are in with a real chance of holding onto their players due to part of the money not counting under the cap. Better yet make part of their contracts NRL funded as well so it encourages more clubs to invest in development to also get the advantages.

It shouldn't be only for local juniors because obviously some clubs like the Roosters are disadvantaged there from the start but I think the longer a player has been developed by a club the more their salaries should be exempt from the cap when they make first grade. I also think the NRL should consider capping or maybe even standardising the amount of money kids are allowed to receive before hitting first grade as at the moment most of the poaching is occurring just before they hit first grade.

I agree about the juniors exemption thing though I see it as a seperate issue. It will help the clubs like Canberra and Newscastle who dont have the same TPA oppurtunities as some other clubs but it would also help the Broncos and the Roosters, these 'rich' clubs bring plenty of kids through HM and SG ball as well. Even in Sydney it helps Penrith and Parra alot more then it does the sharks.

So again I really want long term exemptions for players a club develops it might not make the comp any more fair. Atleast it will encourage clubs to invest in their juniors which is a good thing.

 

[Noname36]

I agree about the juniors exemption thing though I see it as a seperate issue. It will help the clubs like Canberra and Newscastle who dont have the same TPA oppurtunities as some other clubs but it would also help the Broncos and the Roosters, these 'rich' clubs bring plenty of kids through HM and SG ball as well. Even in Sydney it helps Penrith and Parra alot more then it does the sharks.

So again I really want long term exemptions for players a club develops it might not make the comp any more fair. Atleast it will encourage clubs to invest in their juniors which is a good thing.

I certainly agree that it would still help some of the bigger clubs but I'm not looking for a solution that's going to hurt the Roosters, Brisbane, Parra, etc but rather one that might just help the Newcastles and Canberras of the competition hold onto some of the players they produce. I think we can both agree that the comp is never going to be 100% fair but we simply can't keep going under the current structure where some clubs are producing a lot of players only for another with a heap of TP money to come through and poach them the moment they make, or just before they make FG.

It may make clubs like the Bulldogs that just throw money at established players but ignore development rethink their strategy and invest a little more into junior development if they feel other clubs are getting an advantage there (which like you said can only be a good thing).

 

[Craig Johnston]

There is no 600k cap on third party deals. There is a 600k cap on clubs guaranteeing third party deals.

Or an existing club sponsor

 

[Craig Johnston]

Cap exceptions are essentially an increase in the cap, cap increases are primarily driven at this time by what the nrl can afford to distribute in club grants

 

[Noname36]

I don't think the NRL is struggling for funds at the moment. Smith was almost gloating about how he has the power to pay millions to bring high profile players into the game and place them as he sees fit.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Really? Then why was the Salary Cap brought in for the 1990 season and the draft not until 1991?

I know why the salary cap was introduced as I read the actual press release from the NSWRL when it came out, and it mentioned financial prudence as THE reason.

You are more correct then I am. But I still stand that the NSWRL wished to - and had club approval - to introduce the salary cap and player draft to keep clubs, the players and the code financially sound and to even out the talent.

I did some digging, so there's some interesting stuff about the cap and draft.

I believe the the first draft was undertaken at the end of the 1990 season on November 20th.

I'll reference A Centenary of Rugby League 1908-2008 - page 497:

According to the NSWRL board, the draft and salary cap were necessary measures to combat an inflationary spiral in the game and to help spread talent across the clubs. The salary cap came in to effect in 1990...


However, this was written in 2007.

Referencing some old newspapers I had, I found this.

The Daily Telegraph Mirror - Thursday, September 14th 1995 - page 44 (a pull out - Blood, Sweat and 14 Years - the Winfield Cup Story 1982-1995)

This part is from 1991:

The legal climate surrounding the game didn't help matters either as forces opposed to the Players' Draft took the NSWRL to court to have the fledgling system abolished.

After only one year in operation that's exactly what happened, and the salary cap became the only brake, albeit an imperfect one, on the never-ending spiral of player payments.

So perhaps if introduced in conjunction, the cap was to keep the clubs fiscally sound and the draft to spread the talent. Perhaps, after the draft was kiboshed then the Salary Cap remained to keep the clubs fiscally sound and the powers that be maintained that the draft was to keep the talent spread...I know the Gallop era this was pretty much the argument.

I found this 2010 article from the Courier Mail with the architect of the cap and draft, John Quayle, discussing the cap's introduction:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl/quayle-says-cap-must-stay/story-e6frep5x-1225874736337

Here is a link to a May 28, 1989 SMH article about Quayle introducing the cap and draft:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=DegDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5397,2230033&hl=en

I might take some time out to research more of the sports columns in the period of 1989/90 about the draft and cap.

However, as a side point, I checked Wikipedia and they note the NRL Salary Cap begun in 1998 :

The National Rugby League adopted a hard salary cap model in its first season in 1998. The NRL's stated purposes for having a salary cap are "to assist in spreading the playing talent" and "ensure that clubs are not put into positions where they are forced to spend more money than they can afford in terms of player payments, just to be competitive."

NOTE: I know...it's wikipedia, so I'd like to do more searches.

The NRL website notes this about their salary cap:

http://www.nrl.com/nrlhq/referencecentre/salarycap/tabid/10434/default.aspx

Why have a Salary Cap?
The NRL Salary Cap serves two functions:
1. It assists in "spreading the playing talent" so that a few better resourced clubs cannot simply out-bid other clubs for all of the best players. If a few clubs are able to spend unlimited funds it will reduce the attraction of games to fans, sponsors and media partners due to an uneven competition. Allowing clubs to spend an unlimited amount on players would drive some clubs out of the competition as they would struggle to match the prices wealthy clubs could afford to pay.
2. It ensures clubs are not put into a position where they are forced to spend more money than they can afford, in terms of player payments, just to be competitive.

 

[oikee]

When was the last time a side won a premiership with a side packed with brought players? The cap rewards teams that can develop and keep their own players

Hello, Rooster said hi.
Jennings, Maloney, Sonny Bill.
Bought not bred.

 

[MARSHALL ZHUKOV]

The salary cap needs to be scrapped and let market forces determine players wages and the clubs ability to pay and maintain their financial viability long term just like any other business does in any industry.

Too many leaners and not enough lifters as Uncle Smokin' Joe said

 

[Bulldog Force]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...-the-competition/story-fnp0lyn3-1227265183141

Can't really disagree with any of this.

The cap is obviously broken. Is there a solution though?

The NRL can't just go around picking and choosing who gets help signing top tier players. Talk about a can of worms.

This again? Slowy news day ay Paul K*nt?

 

[oikee]

Penriths previous management had scrapped junior development. The club has invested heavily in our juniors since gus arrived, its what he is pinning his hopes on.

Fair enough, but dont try to make out you have them now.
Wallace, Soward, Kite and Manu and many more, bought not bred.
Taylor, Segeyaro, Lattimore, Lewie Brown, Idris Kaourisou, gee whiz, have ya got any juniors.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

Hello, Rooster said hi.
Jennings, Maloney, Sonny Bill.
Bought not bred.

To be fair, Jennings got kicked out of Penrith which was lucky for us and one of them had been out of the game for 5 years. All three players bought were pretty much criticised by all and sundry on LU as dud purchases too.

 

[Craig Johnston]

I don't think the NRL is struggling for funds at the moment. Smith was almost gloating about how he has the power to pay millions to bring high profile players into the game and place them as he sees fit.

it's via a bunker fund or something described as a war chest, something the new commission cited as a key requirement once the new broadcast deal was signed off, the money was always going to get stashed away in case something like superleague2/yawnion raid etc broke out. so they can't reallocate that to grants. what the nrl clubs are suspect on is how much of their profit could be chewed up at the moment on a massive payroll of committee and admin executives

 

[The Engineers Room]

How many clubs have gone bankrupt....it's working.