Penrith 3 2 1s

[Valheru]

We got well beaten in the end but there are positives to take from that IMO and that was one of our better performances of recent especially the first half.

Penrith brought a high level of intensity and I thought we hung in there well in the first 35 minutes with some stoic defence and doing the hard yards with the ball. Our number one issue which prevented us from possibly making a game of it was errors when Penrith gave us none. There was none more telling than the lodge one where we finally got a chance to attack and he rushes the play the ball... heads drop and they score length of the field and heads drop further... game over.

The 2nd half was what it was, we were on a hiding to nothing and they stuck in there well enough to not let things get out of hand.

A few points on individuals...

Sitilli is come along very nicely.

Toops was a welcome addition and he provided a good 1 2 punch with Pauga.

Both teddy and keary look like they are finding their mojo slowly.

Manu... what is going on? His defence was putrid, especially that one where he cuddled a 2nd rower and just let him run through. I really hope playing FB next week invigorates him

We definitely missed Smith and rads in that game, that is the exact type of game those 2 would thrive on.

3 sitilli
2 toops
1 JWH

Play like that first half more often and good things will start to happen.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

We got well beaten in the end but there are positives to take from that IMO and that was one of our better performances of recent especially the first half.

Penrith brought a high level of intensity and I thought we hung in there well in the first 35 minutes with some stoic defence and doing the hard yards with the ball. Our number one issue which prevented us from possibly making a game of it was errors when Penrith gave us none. There was none more telling than the lodge one where we finally got a chance to attack and he rushes the play the ball... heads drop and they score length of the field and heads drop further... game over.

The 2nd half was what it was, we were on a hiding to nothing and they stuck in there well enough to not let things get out of hand.

A few points on individuals...

Sitilli is come along very nicely.

Toops was a welcome addition and he provided a good 1 2 punch with Pauga.

Both teddy and keary look like they are finding their mojo slowly.

Manu... what is going on? His defence was putrid, especially that one where he cuddled a 2nd rower and just let him run through. I really hope playing FB next week invigorates him

We definitely missed Smith and rads in that game, that is the exact type of game those 2 would thrive on.

3 sitilli
2 toops
1 JWH

Play like that first half more often and good things will start to happen.

At what stage does Robbo come under pressure @Valheru? The last two years his squad has seriously underperformed its potential and he isn’t the revered figure he once was.

 

[marshall stalin]

At what stage does Robbo come under pressure @Valheru? The last two years his squad has seriously underperformed its potential and he isn’t the revered figure he once was.

All depends on where you rate the Roosters squad - people say it's the best or one of the best but to my mind it isn't though.

It's safe to say the so called spine is the creator of points and point scoring opportunities as they handle the ball more than most.

Usually a team with a top 2 spine has gone on to win the comp - last 5 years for an example- those spines were either 1 or 2 in the rankings

2018/2019 - Roosters - Tedesco/ Keary/Cronk/Friend - Verrills
2020 -Storm - Papenhuyzen/Munster/Hughes/Cameron Smith- Brandon Smith
2021 and 2022 - Penrith - Edwards/ Luai/Cleary/ Koroisau-Kenny

If you look at the current spines I would rank them as follows - Storm would be number 1 if Papenhuyzen was playing

1. Penrith
2. Storm
3. Souths
4. Brisbane

Then you have the 13 other teams battling for 5th and so on in the spine rankings - not sure the Roosters would be 5th even

Roosters
Parramatta
Cowboys
Sharks
Warriors
Manly
Dolphins
Titans
Knights
Dragons
Bulldogs
Raiders
Wests Tigers

Sure your defence is important as well but if you are struggling to score points then it puts a lot of pressure on your D.

The issues the Roosters have in their spine is well known - two running halves and no organising and game management type half.

Neither Keary and Walker when he was playing have distance kicking games either to kick the team out of trouble when not making yardage-Important when playing against your Penrith's grind game which is built around Defence and dominating the yardage and field position.

I wasn't surprised when Walker was dropped as his running game had deserted him - one KPI they look at is pass to run ration for running halves - Walkers was 6 i.e 6 passes for every run. - Running halves are usually 2 to 3 max in this KPI.

Jury is out on whether Brandon Smith is a dummy half ( sure he won a Dally M as hooker of the year) as at 94 plus kg he won't be an 80 minute type dummy half - 50 max would be the optimum minutes.

If he wants to be a dummy half he needs to shed KG's - play at 86 kg or so - Walker at 78 or so kg needs to put on 10 or so kg's.

The Roosters will need to find a organising and game management type half or add this to Walkers games as it's too late to add this to Keary's game.

The only organising and game management type halves the Roosters have are Drew Hutchison and Sandon Smith.

I think Sandon will get his chance this week to start at I hope 7 - came on late vs Penrith and went okay

Sandon has come through the Roosters system - Central Coast Roosters and Sydney Roosters Junior Pathways - From SG Ball in 2021 to NSW Cup last year with North Sydney Sydney in 2022.

Of course that is only one aspect of their game they need to improve on but one of the hardest - you can improve your defence but much harder to improve your offense.

All the players need to improve though without doubt.

I thought for the bulk of the game vs Penrith they matched them - Lodge's play the ball mishap when it good position in offense - I think Penrith scored in the next set for a 10-0 lead at half time

3 converted tries in 6 minutes pushed it out to 28-0 and that was the game- could well have been 50 plus but they did compete for the rest of the remaining 28 minutes of that half.

No Tedesco or Collins next game - Manu to full back one assumes - Billy Smith to return - who plays right centre ?

1. Manu
2. Toops
3. Billy Smith
4. ??
5. Pauga
6. Keary
7. Sandon Smith
8. JWH
9. Turpin
10. Baker/May( May is on the outer though)
11. E Butcher
12. N Butcher
13. Brown
14. Hutchison
15. Sitili
16. Crichton
17. Lodge
18. Whyte
19. Wong

 

[Valheru]

At what stage does Robbo come under pressure @Valheru? The last two years his squad has seriously underperformed its potential and he isn’t the revered figure he once was.

It's a fair question and one we have discussed here.

I think we are all pretty much unanimous that he at minimum gets this year and next to try and turn things around and build our next premiership core. He deserves that as a 3 time winner.

Through all this there hasn't been the slightest inkling of player discontent, from all reports they revere him as a father figure and he has string recruiting pull. That's not a reason to keep him around forever so if his time ultimately is up I reckon he will got a coaching director role.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

The dumping of Stuart for Bennett that didn’t eventuate will still sting in the mind of Politis. Only way Robbo gets dumped is if a solid replacement is signed and sealed first. Only the calibre of a Bellamy or Fitzy coming back could dislodge him before his contract is up and none of those scenarios are likely. He deserves time for the reasons @Valheru already pointed out.

Having said that, he’s failed to keep up with the new rules compared to his peers which has had an effect on our discipline imo. I know there were circumstances but letting Latts go was a failing. Succession in key positions appears to be another failing but tbf, Friend/Cordner retiring well before their time didn’t help the situation. I think he was too quick to resign Teddy when you’d think the negotiation advantage would lie with him given Manu is ready to take over the position. The risk was losing a player that was on the decline as opposed to Latrell for example, who was still growing in stature and where the f**k was Teddy gonna go anyway! Signing Jared again is another mystery. Great club man but playing less minutes, not as intimidating as he once was and even more ill disciplined if that’s even possible.

I think he genuinely doesn’t know how to get us out of the hole we find ourselves in and therefore, it’s a 2016 repeat for me. I still want him at the club, though and happy to let him get on with the rebuild with hopefully some lessons learnt along the way.

Saturday night went as expected for me. We’d stay in the game, on the scoreboard at least, for a while before being worn down by a team that’s clearly on a different level. I couldn’t see where our points were coming from and had no confidence when we were camped on their line. No surprises with the errors and ill discipline. I deadset don’t know if we’ll win another game either. I’m obviously a-glass-half-empty kinda guy so happy for the team to surprise me. We’ve had a good run and the window is closed for now but I wouldn’t bet on us not coming back at some point. Sad that this form has coincided with a new stadium and membership record.

 

[Valheru]

The dumping of Stuart for Bennett that didn’t eventuate will still sting in the mind of Politis. Only way Robbo gets dumped is if a solid replacement is signed and sealed first. Only the calibre of a Bellamy or Fitzy coming back could dislodge him before his contract is up and none of those scenarios are likely. He deserves time for the reasons @Valheru already pointed out.

Having said that, he’s failed to keep up with the new rules compared to his peers which has had an effect on our discipline imo. I know there were circumstances but letting Latts go was a failing. Succession in key positions appears to be another failing but tbf, Friend/Cordner retiring well before their time didn’t help the situation. I think he was too quick to resign Teddy when you’d think the negotiation advantage would lie with him given Manu is ready to take over the position. The risk was losing a player that was on the decline as opposed to Latrell for example, who was still growing in stature and where the f**k was Teddy gonna go anyway! Signing Jared again is another mystery. Great club man but playing less minutes, not as intimidating as he once was and even more ill disciplined if that’s even possible.

I think he genuinely doesn’t know how to get us out of the hole we find ourselves in and therefore, it’s a 2016 repeat for me. I still want him at the club, though and happy to let him get on with the rebuild with hopefully some lessons learnt along the way.

Saturday night went as expected for me. We’d stay in the game, on the scoreboard at least, for a while before being worn down by a team that’s clearly on a different level. I couldn’t see where our points were coming from and had no confidence when we were camped on their line. No surprises with the errors and ill discipline. I deadset don’t know if we’ll win another game either. I’m obviously a-glass-half-empty kinda guy so happy for the team to surprise me. We’ve had a good run and the window is closed for now but I wouldn’t bet on us not coming back at some point. Sad that this form has coincided with a new stadium and membership record.

I think, at some point this season we will figure out things to some degree and go on a run. Whether that is enough to make the 8 or not who knows but it doesn't really matter either, we ain't winning anything this season. As you have said before, the finishing position is no longer important, what is important is getting out of this slump, finding our best combinations and moving forward with some confidence next year because we will have the team to be competitive in 2024. Even in 2016 which was more dire than this IMO, we won the last 4 games I think it was which clearly gave some confidence for 2017 which was a bounce back season and ultimately 2018/19. Given the tightness of the competition, we may well still make finals and that's all well and good but that is only for the sake of experience as we ain't beating Penrith, Brisbane, Souths or Melbourne in the finals.

On Jared, I will go in to bat for him a little bit, I alluded to this in the gameday thread but he is still passionate about success and putting in as best he can. Not what he was for sure but a decent bench player and I would much rather have him for one more year than Lodge. Collins/Leniu will be the starting props next year you would think. He also has 11 games to go to reach 300 which would be an amazing achievement for him. We only have 11 games left in the season (if we don't make finals) and it's hard to see him playing all the remaining games this season be it through injury or suspension. Whenever he reaches the milestone, I hope Robbo does a Sticky and ensures he plays it at the SFS because the place will be absolutely feral for it.

 

[morley101]

Turpin 3
Pauga 2
Sitilli 1

 

[Black Panther]

We got well beaten in the end but there are positives to take from that IMO and that was one of our better performances of recent especially the first half.

Penrith brought a high level of intensity and I thought we hung in there well in the first 35 minutes with some stoic defence and doing the hard yards with the ball. Our number one issue which prevented us from possibly making a game of it was errors when Penrith gave us none. There was none more telling than the lodge one where we finally got a chance to attack and he rushes the play the ball... heads drop and they score length of the field and heads drop further... game over.

The 2nd half was what it was, we were on a hiding to nothing and they stuck in there well enough to not let things get out of hand.

A few points on individuals...

Sitilli is come along very nicely.

Toops was a welcome addition and he provided a good 1 2 punch with Pauga.

Both teddy and keary look like they are finding their mojo slowly.

Manu... what is going on? His defence was putrid, especially that one where he cuddled a 2nd rower and just let him run through. I really hope playing FB next week invigorates him

We definitely missed Smith and rads in that game, that is the exact type of game those 2 would thrive on.

3 sitilli
2 toops
1 JWH

Play like that first half more often and good things will start to happen.

JWH 1 Point?? What the f**k dI’d he do. Went missing big time until the game was done, then started trying to play tough guy.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Latrell "going" was not on Robinson. Remember Latrell was the one who signed with Souths whilst he still had 12 months left on his contract with us. He was allowed to do so under the signing rules, but the club decided to cut him as, in the minds of the powers that be, they questioned his commitment to the club when everyone knew he'd be leaving for Souths. I know that there have been plenty of times where Robinson has been over-ruled on stuff like this (e.g. When James Maloney was let go - Robinson wanted to keep him, it was O'ullivn who wanted to let him go, Politis sided with O'Sullivan).

Additionally, whilst he is good with ball in hand, to have installed Latrell as fullback as Teddy's successor would have meant retooling the playing structure of the entire squad to account for his lack of work on kick returns.

As to Brandon Smith, I think his issues have come about thru lack of time for the spine to build combinations in training due to the 2022 World cup and due to injuries. Too many people are writing him off as a dummy half based on his disjointed season to date. Go back to 2021 when he played in 24 games, starting 2 at lock and 22 at hooker and was considered good enough on his efforts to win the Dally M Hooker of the year award (Harry Grant was off the bench in only 15 games that season for the Storm). So he does have the ability, but when you consider those factors, plus injuries to Keary and Walker as well, it is not really a surprise to me the team has struggled.

Lack of effort in defence is a bigger issue, with many players seeming to give up when they first get beaten. Outside of Jared, there is little second effort to do clean up work to cover for people missing a tackle. Also as one pundit pointed out, in attack, our team is often one out or at best has one player looming in support. We rarely have multiple bodies in motion, unlike Penrith who have multiple players in motion.

 

[Captain Apollo]

The one player who has been below par all year is Jospeh Manu. He has not looked anywhere near the playing levels of the last 2-3 seasons in just about any game he's played this season regardless of what position he's played.

 

[Valheru]

The one player who has been below par all year is Jospeh Manu. He has not looked anywhere near the playing levels of the last 2-3 seasons in just about any game he's played this season regardless of what position he's played.

100% this

There is a narrative doing the rounds that Robbo has turned the best centre in the game in to an average 5/8. That is revisionist BS as a) The media and fans (myself included) were calling for him to move to 5/8 and b) he was bog average in the 4 to start the season.

We will see what happens with him at fullback this week.

 

[H.H]

3 - Turpin
2 - Sitili
1 Pauga

I was there at the game, was a tough watch. That try just before halftime was SO disappointing after all that work to hold them to 4 - 0.

All that said, hard to argue with anything written above and I will say that the Panthers will make it a 3-peat this year if they remain healthy, I have absolutely no doubt about that.

What they throw at you in attack, set after set, tackle after tackle just gives the opposition zero respite. Their defence is as good as you'll see and let's be honest, they were only half interested. They're in a completely different class to us and we have a long road back before we challenge again.