Peter Beatte NRL 360 - expansion

[titoelcolombiano]

Absolutely different. The NRL is top flight. It has been spawned by well recognised and established Sydney clubs. To disrespect there 'place in the sun' is completely ignorant.

The Shute Shield was once top flight RU and is full of well recognised and established Sydney clubs. The whole competition was demoted from their place in the sun and fans (particularly those in Manly) attending in numbers.

 

[Stallion]

The Shute Shield was once top flight RU and is full of well recognised and established Sydney clubs.

To compare it to the Sydney rugby league is laughable!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Ofcourse I do. And I find your questing insulting. (par for the course amongst you blokes))To this day I have not objected to the existence of clubs in the top flight outside of Sydney. So once again your point is mute!

How about respect for the BRL? Do you have any respect for the tradition, history and clubs of that defunct competition? Or was that ok to die?

 

[Stallion]

I agree that the game is nowhere near where it should be. Let's define where it should be... I'll go first:

An NRL team in Perth, a second NRL team in Brisbane, a second NRL team in New Zealand, a national, fully professional second division (no direct P&R but applications to be looked at on merit and strategy) with no affiliations to NRL clubs, stadia strategy already in place in Sydney, address the oversaturation of the Sydney market so that the larger Sydney clubs can beome the massive sporting brands that they should be.

Your turn, let me know what it should be for you...

With regards to 'respectful', in our exchanges you are the only one that throws insults around.

Lol. I think you should be having a good look at the proponents proposing implosion of the code in Sydney! Their rhetoric has been insulting well ahead of my responses

How about respect for the BRL? Do you have any respect for the tradition, history and clubs of that defunct competition? Or was that ok to die?

Adept administrators in Brisbane should have looked after that. From what I gather there exists a competition in Brisbane/Queensland? Remembering the important point that these Brisbane clubs were nowhere near the notoriety or exposure afforded Sydney's very popular Big League! A point continuously forgotten by some in this discourse!

 

[Stallion]

The Shute Shield was once top flight RU and is full of well recognised and established Sydney clubs. The whole competition was demoted from their place in the sun and fans (particularly those in Manly) attending in numbers.[/QUOTE

Lol!!!!!!

 

[Stallion]

I think the code has been strengthened by creating room for Melbourne to join the comp by reducing the clubs in Sydney.

If you think the code wouldn't be strengthened by losing two sydney clubs and replacing them with perth and Brisbane2 you are a lost cause! Perth and Brisbane has been weakened and other codes along with AFL have been enjoying the free invitation/ride! If you can't work this outime? That's your blinkered ignorance coming through.

@stagnationwillbethedeathofthegame

MelBourne was not created out of the loss of a Sydney club. The demise of Perth, Adelaide Rams and Hunter. Mariners gave Melbourne it's great start. And I'm fully supportive of the Melbourne Storm.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

From what I gather there exists a competition in Brisbane/Queensland? Remembering the important point that these Brisbane clubs were nowhere near the notoriety or exposure afforded Sydney's very popular Big League! A point continuously forgotten by some in this discourse!

So what you are saying is that they have been relegated to a second dividsion, but that is ok because they still exist and maintain their identity.

 

[Stallion]

So what you are saying is that they have been relegated to a second dividsion, but that is ok because they still exist and maintain their identity.

With all due respects it's the Sydney competition that earnt and took the widespread notoriety and popularity! You may not know that plenty of footballers That's in the Brisbane comp aspired to make it in the Big League of Sydney! This is a fact being ignored by some in this discourse by some. The Sydney competition had the exposure and notoriety. The Brisbane comp didn't have that. A crucial difference.

 

[Stallion]

I agree that the game is nowhere near where it should be. Let's define where it should be... I'll go first:

An NRL team in Perth, a second NRL team in Brisbane, a second NRL team in New Zealand, a national, fully professional second division (no direct P&R but applications to be looked at on merit and strategy) with no affiliations to NRL clubs, stadia strategy already in place in Sydney, address the oversaturation of the Sydney market so that the larger Sydney clubs can beome the massive sporting brands that they should be.

Your turn, let me know what it should be for you...

With regards to 'respectful', in our exchanges you are the only one that throws insults around.

Lol. I would retract that statement concerning insults! You have accused me of using other aliases! Now that's an outright lie and insult . I feel more sorry for the people you have dismissed as not being real!
My short term NRL structure would be with all existing established clubs plus two short term additions in Brisbane 2 and the Central Coast Bears Then after due diligence and appropriate development work a club from WA and another from either Melbourne or Adelaide. That will be a twenty team top flight competition. I would then revisit a conference format for further additional clubs into the longterm future (twenty years from now) The four additional clubs would be phased in with two easier clubs over-three years or so and the other clubs within the decade or so.

 

[tri_colours]

lol have you seen the AFL tv audiences, crowds for GWS and genuine registered playing numbers in Sydney? They have literally spent hundreds of millions of $'s on getting very little back. NS hasn't become an AFL stronghold. The swans crowds are no bigger now than they were when NS was cut from the comp. The tv audiences are no different now than when NS got cut. The evidence simply does not stack up that people in NS became AFL fans because the Bears now play in the second tier.


The game has strengthened and grown despite losing some foundation clubs, it will continue to do so as time marches on. Its as inevitable as you using the word dilution.

Do you think it’s fair that a League fan, Someone who has passionately supported a team all his life. (good times and bad) should have his team suddenly ripped from under him. All so you and others supporters can have your own team.

Where is the logic the common sense? Its’ like Doc trying to explain it all off as progress or good business sense. We are not all like Doc. We can’t change clubs like we change our underwear.

Surely a much better outcome would be for both lots of supporters to have a team. Better for the fans and better for rugby League.


I showed you the numbers for the merged clubs the other day, as did somebody else. Crowds were the only measurement available and fan were lower for both, home and away.


If people lose there team many are lost to the game. Many might come back. But most of those would never have the same enthusiasm, the same zest for the game that they once did.

And as I said in my previous post, the Swans regularly get 70-80 thousand NSW viewers for a Friday night game. Ad when the Lions were doing well. They got similar.


Swans crowds at the outset of the war,


1994:10k

95: 16k

96: 25k


Today: 34k

+ GWS


The 100’s of millions the AFL are spending shows just how serious/desperate they are. They would love nothing more than to pick up some disgruntled fans and it seems we are falling over ourselves to give them away.


At no time did I or say or imply that AFL had taken over North Sydney.
Though they have become stronger in that area.


And how many years does it take for a non-established, non-heartland club to start showing some type of return?

 

[tri_colours]

Im wondering if Stallion is actually a computer program dedicated to trolling...

He cannot form full sentences or understand debate. He just keep generating buzzwords and meaningless sentences.

Surely no one is actually so thick...

I don't know,. I 've read a few of your posts!

 

[King hit]

Stop talking to yourself stallion lol

take your own advice

 

[Stallion]

Do you think it’s fair that a League fan, Someone who has passionately supported a team all his life. (good times and bad) should have his team suddenly ripped from under him. All so you and others supporters can have your own team.

Where is the logic the common sense? Its’ like Doc trying to explain it all off as progress or good business sense. We are not all like Doc. We can’t change clubs like we change our underwear.

Surely a much better outcome would be for both lots of supporters to have a team. Better for the fans and better for rugby League.


I showed you the numbers for the merged clubs the other day, as did somebody else. Crowds were the only measurement available and fan were lower for both, home and away.


If people lose there team many are lost to the game. Many might come back. But most of those would never have the same enthusiasm, the same zest for the game that they once did.

And as I said in my previous post, the Swans regularly get 70-80 thousand NSW viewers for a Friday night game. Ad when the Lions were doing well. They got similar.


Swans crowds at the outset of the war,


1994:10k

95: 16k

96: 25k


Today: 34k

+ GWS


The 100’s of millions the AFL are spending shows just how serious/desperate they are. They would love nothing more than to pick up some disgruntled fans and it seems we are falling over ourselves to give them away.


At no time did I or say or imply that AFL had taken over North Sydney.
Though they have become stronger in that area.


And how many years does it take for a non-established, non-heartland club to start showing some type of return?

Added to this I have commented that northern Sydney is now becoming more popular for other codes .Especially AFL and ofcourse union! Rugby league is absolutely not regarded as a growth sport in this vast area that the NRL has left to one club namely Manly Warringah! 1.2 million people and you "implosion ' people can't see a corelation! ? Oh wait! Just snap some fingers and magically the Bears fans become Sea Eagles fans. Yeah that will work.NOT!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Lol. I would retract that statement concerning insults! You have accused me of using other aliases! Now that's an outright lie and insult . I feel more sorry for the people you have dismissed as not being real!
My short term NRL structure would be with all existing established clubs plus two short term additions in Brisbane 2 and the Central Coast Bears Then after due diligence and appropriate development work a club from WA and another from either Melbourne or Adelaide. That will be a twenty team top flight competition. I would then revisit a conference format for further additional clubs into the longterm future (twenty years from now) The four additional clubs would be phased in with two easier clubs over-three years or so and the other clubs within the decade or so.

No, I have suspected you of having multiple accounts which shouldn't bother you if you don't, hardly and insult.

I don't mind your plan, but do you acknowledge that there will be questions around the NRL's ability to fund 20 + teams? Not impossible but the question at least needs to be asked. Where would you propose that the additional funds and talent come from?

Our plans differ but not by that much. May I ask why you feel the need to attack mine with your catch phrases rather than just question and debate the weaknesses you see in it without resorting to nostaliga but actually using facts, stats and data?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Lol!!!!!!

Lol? Is that all you've got? Everything in my post was true and the more affluent parts of Sydney have always been RU heartlands, why would that not continue to be the case? Other sports growing or maintaining their hold in Sydney doesn't automatically equate to RL dying. Both can happen at the same time you know. RL is growing significantly in Melbourne but that doesn't mean that AFL is dying.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

If people lose there team many are lost to the game. Many might come back. But most of those would never have the same enthusiasm, the same zest for the game that they once did.

Is "zesty" money worth more than regular money?

I mean, these clubs have always and will always get smaller crowds than the expansion areas. So is their zesty money just worth more?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Lol. I think you should be having a good look at the proponents proposing implosion of the code in Sydney! Their rhetoric has been insulting well ahead of my responses


Adept administrators in Brisbane should have looked after that. From what I gather there exists a competition in Brisbane/Queensland? Remembering the important point that these Brisbane clubs were nowhere near the notoriety or exposure afforded Sydney's very popular Big League! A point continuously forgotten by some in this discourse!

By implosion you mean rationalising so that the game as a whole including the biggest and best Sydney clubs can grow into giants of Australian sport as they should be like the big Melbourne AFL clubs?

Your point about Brisbane RL is an arrogant Sydney-centric view. The Brisbane clubs had huge notoriety in Brisbane... but that doesn't matter does it, because Brisbane is not in Sydney. The Sydney clubs were richer because of pokies money and bought all of the top players and then eventually entered a Brisbane team in their league (not backed by or even with the blessing of the QRL). It is arrogant comments and attitudes like yours that motivated the beginnings of State of Origin and the fact that you still carry these attitudes today makes me happy that we flogged you for the better part of 13 years.

 

[tri_colours]

Is "zesty" money worth more than regular money?

I mean, these clubs have always and will always get smaller crowds than the expansion areas. So is their zesty money just worth more?

I know your very big on progress. So wouldn't TV money be of greater concern here?.

Expansion clubs such as Canberra or the Gold Coast do you mean?

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I know your very big on progress. So wouldn't TV money be of greater concern here?.

Expansion clubs such as Canberra or the Gold Coast do you mean?

If we're talking about Perth, NZ and Brisbane, I think the better comparisons would be Capital cities (Brisbane, Auckland and Melbourne).

Auckland bring in something like $150m alone, so they would be the single most valuable club to the comp. (Obviously every new NZ team would see diminishing returns, but still thats a great place to start)

Brisbane get EVERY friday game, so they are obviously important to C9. (Even if the Broncos still keep all the FTA spots, that just makes Bris2 more valuable to Fox getting Brisbane subscribers)

Melbourne are probably the most valuable team for Fox. Its not a coincidence that almost every Storm game is on PTV, they want to force NSW/QLD/NZ expats in Victoria to buy Fox to watch their local team. (WC Pirates team would see a similar situation with the expats in Perth)

How much money do the suburban Sydney teams bring to the TV deal???

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I know your very big on progress. So wouldn't TV money be of greater concern here?.

Expansion clubs such as Canberra or the Gold Coast do you mean?

Just further on this point: If TV is what matters, why is it important if these clubs stay in Sydney?

If the most important fan is the one watching from the couch, what is the difference between the Sea Eagles streamed from Perth, Gosford or Manly? Whats the difference between the Sharks streamed from Wellington of Cronulla?

Moving from SFS to ANZ obviously didnt hurt Souths viewing figures. Why would relocation hurt any other Sydney club?