Peter Beatte NRL 360 - expansion

[Perth Red]

Stop looking back and let’s look forward. We will know in 11 months what the nrl is going to do with expansion. I suspect nothing at nrl level.

Lol. I would retract that statement concerning insults! You have accused me of using other aliases! Now that's an outright lie and insult . I feel more sorry for the people you have dismissed as not being real!
My short term NRL structure would be with all existing established clubs plus two short term additions in Brisbane 2 and the Central Coast Bears Then after due diligence and appropriate development work a club from WA and another from either Melbourne or Adelaide. That will be a twenty team top flight competition. I would then revisit a conference format for further additional clubs into the longterm future (twenty years from now) The four additional clubs would be phased in with two easier clubs over-three years or so and the other clubs within the decade or so.

Where do you think the NRL will get $60mill plus a year from to pay for this model of expansion?

 

[Perth Red]

Do you think it’s fair that a League fan, Someone who has passionately supported a team all his life. (good times and bad) should have his team suddenly ripped from under him. All so you and others supporters can have your own team.

Where is the logic the common sense? Its’ like Doc trying to explain it all off as progress or good business sense. We are not all like Doc. We can’t change clubs like we change our underwear.

Surely a much better outcome would be for both lots of supporters to have a team. Better for the fans and better for rugby League.


I showed you the numbers for the merged clubs the other day, as did somebody else. Crowds were the only measurement available and fan were lower for both, home and away.


If people lose there team many are lost to the game. Many might come back. But most of those would never have the same enthusiasm, the same zest for the game that they once did.

And as I said in my previous post, the Swans regularly get 70-80 thousand NSW viewers for a Friday night game. Ad when the Lions were doing well. They got similar.


Swans crowds at the outset of the war,


1994:10k

95: 16k

96: 25k


Today: 34k

+ GWS


The 100’s of millions the AFL are spending shows just how serious/desperate they are. They would love nothing more than to pick up some disgruntled fans and it seems we are falling over ourselves to give them away.


At no time did I or say or imply that AFL had taken over North Sydney.
Though they have become stronger in that area.


And how many years does it take for a non-established, non-heartland club to start showing some type of return?

I think the code needs to grow or all will suffer. Is it fair? No. Is it necessary, maybe. Time will tell

Swans fans last year of Bears existence (1999) 35K
First year after Bears merger (2000) 28k
10 years after bears exiting all together (2012) 24k
15 years after Bears demise (2017) 33k

Factor in Sydney's population growth in that 15 year period and its laughable to suggest the demise of the Bears has led to a surge in AFL support.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I think the code needs to grow or all will suffer. Is it fair? No. Is it necessary, maybe. Time will tell

Swans fans last year of Bears existence (1999) 35K
First year after Bears merger (2000) 28k
10 years after bears exiting all together (2012) 24k
15 years after Bears demise (2017) 33k

Factor in Sydney's population growth in that 15 year period and its laughable to suggest the demise of the Bears has led to a surge in AFL support.

Yeh, swans fans are pretty much made up of Vic Expats and Union fans sick of watching such dull local teams...

The idea of people "rage quitting" anything is laughable. Something can only inspire rage in people if they care. You cant MAKE yourself stop caring. The fact that we still hear people complaining that the Bears are gone PROVES people don just abandon the sport if their teams dies.

And the idea of losing them to VFL? hahahahha. If they didnt watch that shit before, o you really think theyre gonna force themselves to sit through it just to spite the NRL? F*cking laughable.

Obviously some of these fans are less involved and engaged than they used to be, but that if more a failure of Gallop's NRL; they never actively tried to reengage these fans with new teams (Rep teams are the obvious ones).

 

[tri_colours]

If we're talking about Perth, NZ and Brisbane, I think the better comparisons would be Capital cities (Brisbane, Auckland and Melbourne).

Auckland bring in something like $150m alone, so they would be the single most valuable club to the comp. (Obviously every new NZ team would see diminishing returns, but still thats a great place to start)

Brisbane get EVERY friday game, so they are obviously important to C9. (Even if the Broncos still keep all the FTA spots, that just makes Bris2 more valuable to Fox getting Brisbane subscribers)

Melbourne are probably the most valuable team for Fox. Its not a coincidence that almost every Storm game is on PTV, they want to force NSW/QLD/NZ expats in Victoria to buy Fox to watch their local team. (WC Pirates team would see a similar situation with the expats in Perth)

How much money do the suburban Sydney teams bring to the TV deal???

9/Fox pays $400m a year for there 8 matches

I really wouldn’t know what part of the $400m the Sydney clubs are responsible for bring in , a considerable chunk I would guess. But what I do know is that 8 teams would bring in a lot more than 4 or 5.

 

[tri_colours]

I think the code needs to grow or all will suffer. Is it fair? No. Is it necessary, maybe. Time will tell

Swans fans last year of Bears existence (1999) 35K
First year after Bears merger (2000) 28k
10 years after bears exiting all together (2012) 24k
15 years after Bears demise (2017) 33k

Factor in Sydney's population growth in that 15 year period and its laughable to suggest the demise of the Bears has led to a surge in AFL support.

"t no time did I or say or imply that AFL had taken over North Sydney.
Though they have become stronger in that area"



Swans crowds at the outset of the war,


1994:10k

95: 16k

96: 25k


Today: 34k

+ GWS



I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[Stallion]

Stop looking back and let’s look forward. We will know in 11 months what the nrl is going to do with expansion. I suspect nothing at nrl level.


Where do you think the NRL will get $60mill plus a year from to pay for this model of expansion?

New clubs can and are able to generate new income as well as growing the code! Something you don't consider in your fanciful rants?!

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

9/Fox pays $400m a year for there 8 matches

I really wouldn’t know what part of the $400m the Sydney clubs are responsible for bring in , a considerable chunk I would guess. But what I do know is that 8 teams would bring in a lot more than 4 or 5.

But if we had 8 Sydney teams (instead of 9) and say 1 more NZ team or 1 Perth team, you admit that the networks would probably pay more?

We would still be selling 8 games, but we would be selling an audience in another Capital instead of just a Sydney Suburb with 8 other teams nearby.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

New clubs can and are able to generate new income as well as growing the code! Something you don't consider in your fanciful rants?!

But if Sydney clubs are running at a loss and always need to be bailed out, how can the NRL afford teams in new areas?

 

[Stallion]

But if Sydney clubs are running at a loss and always need to be bailed out, how can the NRL afford teams in new areas?

The new clubs will generate their own income. The Sydney clubs are worth the effort as they give the competition it's impetus and longtime credibility. These things matter to the public. To counter your move to rid another Sydney club, I truelly believe that the Central Coast Bears is a win/win for rugby league in the northern part of Sydney. It will bring back disenfranchised Bears fans, the North Sydney fan base(Australia wide) and add the Central Coast as a participant in the top flight. More than just win/win. It's win/win/win! That move in itself will gain and secure an underserviced area as far as top.flight rugby league is concerned. A massive amount of business interest and rekindled fan support that has been lost is to be gained/regained. More money from the influential CBD of North Sydney cannot be a bad thing? Surely !

 

[Stallion]

But if we had 8 Sydney teams (instead of 9) and say 1 more NZ team or 1 Perth team, you admit that the networks would probably pay more?

We would still be selling 8 games, but we would be selling an audience in another Capital instead of just a Sydney Suburb with 8 other teams nearby.

And whats wrong with 9 games. As alluded to before the infrastructure and juniors are already in place for two additional clubs namely Central Coast Bears and Brisbane2. Not hard to do but seems too difficult for some!? The added game will gain increased revenues from various sources I suggest.

 

[The Great Dane]

"t no time did I or say or imply that AFL had taken over North Sydney.
Though they have become stronger in that area"



Swans crowds at the outset of the war,


1994:10k

95: 16k

96: 25k


Today: 34k

+ GWS



I don't know what else to tell you.

The Swans growth spurt also coincides with the start of them being a legitimate contender for the premiership after a down period, and doesn't really explode until they actually win the damn thing, and the AFL hasn't allowed them to fail since then (they learnt their lesson from the Lions).

Are you honestly saying that if the Swans are cellar dwellers or even just a bog average team over that same time period that they see anywhere near the same amounts of growth as they have had?

 

[The Great Dane]

And whats wrong with 9 games. As alluded to before the infrastructure and juniors are already in place for two additional clubs namely Central Coast Bears and Brisbane2. Not hard to do but seems too difficult for some!? The added game will gain increased revenues from various sources I suggest.

I've been wondering for I while if you know, but the Central Coast Bears bid doesn't exist anymore... The Bears gave up on the CC a couple years ago, now they just wait for a club to fall over and try to buy their license.

 

[Stallion]

The Swans growth spurt also coincides with the start of them being a legitimate contender for the premiership after a down period, and doesn't really explode until they actually win the damn thing, and the AFL hasn't allowed them to fail since then (they learnt their lesson from the Lions).

Are you honestly saying that if the Swans are cellar dwellers or even just a bog average team over that same time period that they see anywhere near the same amounts of growth as they have had?

So why would you put rugby league in the precarious and vulnerable situation it is in northern Sydney. By only having one top flight club in Manly Warringah the code is at the mercy of this one clubs. 1.2 million people plus the Central Coast population demand another top flight team! So when Manly suffers so does rugby league.Just like the winning scenario you have alluded to for the Swans in Sydney. Trust me the Bears fans won't be crying over Manly's demise! These fans are in hibernation and still exist.

 

[Stallion]

I've been wondering for I while if you know, but the Central Coast Bears bid doesn't exist anymore... The Bears gave up on the CC a couple years ago, now they just wait for a club to fall over and try to buy their license.

So what?! If were the NRL strategist I would be teinvigoratong that particular bid firsthand area big time. It would solve some very concerning downward trends for rugby league. The area is underserviced. Surely 1.2million is a worthy enough market! ? One club that is disliked by many and loved by some (Manly)is not going to cut it as servicing this region. It's a worthwhile remedy to a very concerning scenario for rugby league in northern Sydney!

 

[The Great Dane]

So why would you put rugby league in the precarious and vulnerable situation it is in northern Sydney. By only having one top flight club in Manly Warringah the code is at the mercy of this one clubs. 1.2 million people plus the Central Coast population demand another top flight team! So when Manly suffers so does rugby league.

NS doesn't need anymore than 1 club in the NRL, it just needs it's current club in the NRL to start acting as a club for all of NS instead of a club exclusively for Manly...

Hypothetically I'd be ok with swapping Manly for the Bears if you'd like, but a second club is a waste of resources.

Just like the winning scenario you have alluded to for the Swans in Sydney.

The winning scenario of being successful...

 

[The Great Dane]

So what?! It's a worthwhile remedy to a very concerning scenario for rugby league in northern Sydney!

So the Central Coast Bears can't join the NRL cause they are no longer bidding for a place in the NRL.

 

[Stallion]

So the Central Coast Bears can't join the NRL cause they are no longer bidding for a place in the NRL.

Just like you have the opinion that only one club should service 1.2 million I believe that the Central Coast Bears is a genuine remedy for an underserviced area. No local derbies is a significant loss for the Manly club. But you don't see this? I do. Rugby league is hurting in this area and you choose to not help it. We fundamentally dissagree!

 

[The Great Dane]

Just like you have the opinion that only one club should service 1.2 million I believe that the Central Coast Bears is a genuine remedy for an underserviced area. No local derbies is a significant loss for the Manly club. But you don't see this? I do. Rugby league is hurting in this area and you choose to not help it. We fundamentally dissagree!

You're missing the point.

Whether or not the NS market (or the CC for that matter) and Manly need a second club is all academic cause the Bears aren't bidding anymore, so hypothetically even if we agreed that NS needs another team it ain't happening cause the Bears aren't bidding anymore.

BTW, do you reckon that NS just needs another club or that it needs the Bears to be successful again? E.g. would a brand new club suffice to heal all the problems in NS or would the problems that you believe exists in NS continue to persist even with a new club alongside Manly in the market and that the Bears are the only way that the problems can be fixed?

 

[Stallion]

You're missing the point.

Whether or not the NS market (or the CC for that matter) and Manly need a second club is all academic cause the Bears aren't bidding anymore, so hypothetically even if we agreed that NS needs another team it ain't happening cause the Bears aren't bidding anymore.

BTW, do you reckon that NS just needs another club or that it needs the Bears to be successful again? E.g. would a brand new club suffice to heal all the problems in NS or would the problems that you believe exists in NS continue to persist even with a new club alongside Manly in the market and that the Bears are the only way that the problems can be fixed?

You're missing the point.

Whether or not the NS market (or the CC for that matter) and Manly need a second club is all academic cause the Bears aren't bidding anymore, so hypothetically even if we agreed that NS needs another team it ain't happening cause the Bears aren't bidding anymore.

BTW, do you reckon that NS just needs another club or that it needs the Bears to be successful again? E.g. would a brand new club suffice to heal all the problems in NS or would the problems that you believe exists in NS continue to persist even with a new club alongside Manly in the market and that the Bears are the only way that the problems can be fixed?

The Bears due to their generational support have what I call "credit" in the local community. Respecting history a Central Coast Bears v Manly Warringah rivalry would work as it provides a rivalry that has "credit" on the community. No need to create it. It's there already. Saves alot of f**king around!

 

[The Great Dane]

The Bears due to their generational support have what I call "credit" in the local community. Respecting history a Central Coast Bears v Manly Warringah rivalry would work as it provides a rivalry that has "credit" on the community. No need to create it. It's there already. Saves alot of f**king around!

Fair enough, but now let’s say that hypothetically the NRL decides to expand and they decide they need another club in NS, but the Bears don’t want a license and don’t bid, but another consortium from NS comes along and they bid for the license, in your opinion in that situation where the Bears aren’t an option should the NRL accept that other bid or just move on from NS?