Phil Rothfield- Nine Sydney teams is too many

[DiegoNT]

The problem is that current second tier teams do not have great finances. It is not like in UK soccer or even UK rugby league where lower division teams get crowds of 5,000-10,000 per game.

Add in the poor infrastructure (namely grounds), it is unrealistic to think promotion/relegation would work in Australia.

Which is why I said get the current second tiers strong would be the first step, then merging those 2 comps taking only the strongest teams would be the second step, then only when those teams are strong enough would the idea of a promotion/relagation could happen. If for example the second division teams were getting 5000-10000 crowds and operating at about a third of the budget of an nrl team could we start looking at promotion relegation. But even if we dont get there, surely strengthening the second tiers would help grow the game in new areas ( just look at the success of the png hunters) and at least gives us a solid base for expansion.

 

[DiegoNT]

The problem is that current second tier teams do not have great finances. It is not like in UK soccer or even UK rugby league where lower division teams get crowds of 5,000-10,000 per game.

Add in the poor infrastructure (namely grounds), it is unrealistic to think promotion/relegation would work in Australia.

Imagine in 15-20 years being able to negotiate a TV deal with
- 8 NRL games a week
- 6-8 second division games per week.
-14-16 games each week with teams spread over australia/pacific
- NRL grand Final and final series.
- promotion play off series culminating in a play off game for a spot in the nrl
- Internationals ( and stronger international teams with clubs like png and fiji in the second division comp.
-State of Origin.
- An expanded 9s comp.
- every match in the nrl now matters. No more bottom of the table snore fests in Round 20-26 because teams don't have anything to play for, now they are playing for survival.

Wouldn't be easy, and would take a lot of work and time, but strengthening our second tier comps is a start.

 

[Pete Cash]

I agree the Sharks, Titans and Canberra have all struggled at times in recent years.

All of those clubs have the potential to come good, in fact it seems the Sharks are already well on the way.

The Tigers also have a good base, management has screwed up in recent years, they need to sort that out before they can progress. But there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the club, except for perhaps the fact that the merger never really settled down.

What that shows is mergers are a bad idea.

Canberra are financial and that's all the nrl really cares about at the end of the day.

 

[Perth Red]

haha
he writes it like he has a clue too.

The development is going gang busters.
all current stages SOLD OUT.

I thought it might do ok but even the most confident person would never have predicted the incredible demand for the real estate and the shopping centre rental space.
I see McDonalds have a massive billboard stuck on the side of the stadium now.
Looks like they want to get in on it too.
What other NRL team will be getting paid rent from Macca's?

http://wooloowarebay.com.au/[/QUOTE]


Have you cleared your $3.5mill debt to the pizza man yet?

Nice list on the field. achievements How about doing one of the financial sagas of Sydney clubs off the field in the last decade which is what the thread is actually about and what is stifling the expansion of the NRL.

Panthers 11, Manly 11, Wests now, St's now, Parra 09, Sharks since forever, Souths up to Hollywood star take over etc etc.
The games recent history is littered with clubs on the brink, why the NRL feels it is going to get them all profit making I've no idea when history shows the likelihood of this to be very slim. The good thing is they have all shown resilience to still be around and sometimes the tough times make you realise you have to do things differently plus the NRl seems determined to bail them out so they are safe for now.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Just out of interest, who is going to be paying the West Coast Pirates' bills?

They're gonna need an awfully big treasure chest.

 

[Shorty]

lol...I don't mean to be rude but some posters are obviously 'armchair' business owners.
Some clubs are run better than others, that's all, but overall I feel the game is strengthening...Sharks are coming good.
As others have said it's just about how it's run, Rothfield is just talking crap.

Smith has the right idea, all clubs must be financially stable when the next club is introduced...so that when the new club inevitably struggles, there is something to fall back on.
More clubs = more revenue, yes this is true but it's also more expenses and RISK.
And, you can't just expect a new club to come in and turn the same numbers as a well established club, it doesn't work like that.

Perth is the last place I'd think the NRL would expand, Brisbane's 2nd team should be next - This is strong heart land, increasing population, financial availability....then the revenue off this can then start to think about WA.
Even this is still a few years away.

To pull off a Perth team requires a lot of planning and stability and the game isn't anywhere near that.
PR you seem to think the NRL is rolling in cash lol.

 

[CowboyFuriousFury]

These clubs had decades to get it together and we're still waiting, embarrassing for supposed professional clubs to be run like amateur semi-pro clubs. There the reason that expansion is on hold due to there own incompetence and constantly getting bailed out by the NRL. Afterwards, they proceed to do nothing to improve there situation instead going handout by handout.

Clubs should stop blaming the NRL for there woes and blame themselves, take some responsibility and get it together.

 

[DiegoNT]

These clubs had decades to get it together and we're still waiting, embarrassing for supposed professional clubs to be run like amateur semi-pro clubs. There the reason that expansion is on hold due to there own incompetence and constantly getting bailed out by the NRL. Afterwards, they proceed to do nothing to improve there situation instead going handout by handout.

Clubs should stop blaming the NRL for there woes and blame themselves, take some responsibility and get it together.

Wasn't that long ago that souths and Cowboys were relying on handouts, now they are the last 2 premiers and 2 of the better run clubs in the game

 

[Shorty]

These clubs had decades to get it together and we're still waiting, embarrassing for supposed professional clubs to be run like amateur semi-pro clubs. There the reason that expansion is on hold due to there own incompetence and constantly getting bailed out by the NRL. Afterwards, they proceed to do nothing to improve there situation instead going handout by handout.

Clubs should stop blaming the NRL for there woes and blame themselves, take some responsibility and get it together.

It's on hold because it isn't financially viable.

Wasn't that long ago that souths and Cowboys were relying on handouts, now hey are the last 2 premiers and 2 of the better run clubs in the game

Yes because the owners realised front office was a mess and set things straight and what do you know, success on and off the field!

Do people not realise the damage that it would do for any of the struggling teams to merge or die?

 

[some11]

Shorty you've got it all wrong.

The fans would unite without protest, and there's always money in the banana stand.

 

[DiegoNT]

Losing any sydney team will likely lose the nrl about 100k longterm fans in one go.
Will a perth or Brisbane team gain those extra 100k fans back?
No. Maybe eventually, but in the short term the nrl will lose at least 100k fans.
That's why it's important to make all current teams as efficient as possible, then promote expansion teams when the comp is ready.
Swapping Tigers for Perth wouldn't actually be growing the game, we'd lose more fans than we gain. It'd take a Perth team decades to gain that many true fans (not talking just about crowd figures and memberships, but people watching the game at home and buying the merchandise etc). So its best the nrl consolidate what it's got and build from there.

 

[MarkC]

I can see why the NRL want to ensure as far as possible existing clubs are financially viable before attempting expansion.

I can see there are costs in expansion that have to be met by the NRL, probably for at least 10 years after a new club is added.

But in the long term adding the right new clubs will grow the game, grow the TV audience and probably lead to increased TV rights.

I am not saying the broadcasters have an endless pot of money, more like I can't see why a new club can't not be just as viable as an existing club after about 10 years.

It is all about doing the right planning, and getting the right management in place, before the club is added to the comp.

IMO any new club has a honeymoon for 3-5 years, especially if fans have been wanting their own club for many years.

The hard part starts around years 4-10 when the novelty has worn off and the club is not yet fully established. If will help if the club can plan to be successful in years 6-10.
So any salary cap concessions need to be targeted around the retention of locally developed talent.

It is worth conceding some minor concessions to the new clubs around that time frame and of the right strategic type.

If the club is competitive, with a stable roster, that will go a long way towards bedding it in.

All I am saying is don't put expansion in the "too hard" basket, it needs careful planing and execution, but it can be done.

The other key point is no forced mergers or re-locations.

 

[Shorty]

It isn't in the 'too hard' basket, it's just in the 'not right now' basket.

 

[siv]

It seems to me that the NRL wants to expand into PNG or Fiji rather than Perth or Adelaide

 

[butchmcdick]

Shorty you've got it all wrong.

The fans would unite without protest, and there's always money in the banana stand.

Love that show

 

[beave]

Central Coast Bearboys

Bearboys could work.

This could be the official team song when they run out onto the field......

http://youtu.be/vSUW-Z_Cnc0

Butch can be head cheerleader.........

 

[butchmcdick]

Beaves !!

I love this song

Boys boys boys

To be honest it's not much better than life at the outpost

[youtube]6X9tBHX_Fl4[/youtube]

 

[alien]

lol...I don't mean to be rude but some posters are obviously 'armchair' business owners.
Some clubs are run better than others, that's all, but overall I feel the game is strengthening...Sharks are coming good.
As others have said it's just about how it's run, Rothfield is just talking crap.

Smith has the right idea, all clubs must be financially stable when the next club is introduced...so that when the new club inevitably struggles, there is something to fall back on.
More clubs = more revenue, yes this is true but it's also more expenses and RISK.
And, you can't just expect a new club to come in and turn the same numbers as a well established club, it doesn't work like that.

Perth is the last place I'd think the NRL would expand, Brisbane's 2nd team should be next - This is strong heart land, increasing population, financial availability....then the revenue off this can then start to think about WA.
Even this is still a few years away.

To pull off a Perth team requires a lot of planning and stability and the game isn't anywhere near that.
PR you seem to think the NRL is rolling in cash lol.

it's always a risk to bring in new teams, but it doesn't mean you don't grow. when are all of the current nrl clubs going to be strong financially at the same time - maybe never. the afl have taken risks, and they have a true national comp now. in the short term, some new clubs may need to be helped, and that's ok. the nrl need to start thinking long term. the nrl have been short sighted since they started in 1998

 

[Shorty]

it's always a risk to bring in new teams, but it doesn't mean you don't grow. when are all of the current nrl clubs going to be strong financially at the same time - maybe never. the afl have taken risks, and they have a true national comp now. in the short term, some new clubs may need to be helped, and that's ok. the nrl need to start thinking long term. the nrl have been short sighted since they started in 1998

No, it isn't ok, because if Sydney clubs are struggling now then you're just adding more clubs that are struggling.

Not enough revenue going through to weigh up the risks associated, the NRL wants to grow not go broke.
Struggling clubs come good when all across the board of the NRL is strong, you don't add more struggle.
Seriously not that hard to comprehend!

 

[DiegoNT]

it's always a risk to bring in new teams, but it doesn't mean you don't grow. when are all of the current nrl clubs going to be strong financially at the same time - maybe never. the afl have taken risks, and they have a true national comp now. in the short term, some new clubs may need to be helped, and that's ok. the nrl need to start thinking long term. the nrl have been short sighted since they started in 1998

I wouldn't call AFLs expansion a sucess.
Both suns and giant are money pits, suns inclusion has also had an effect on the Lions who are almost on their death beds. AFL are pumping so much money into the expansion sides and giving them so much concessions that it's put the powerful Victorian sides offside with the AFL. it also has traditional clubs like the roos and bulldogs and demons really struggling while it tries to prop up blackhole clubs like suns and giants. 18 teams is also spreading the talent to thin and diluting the whole Comp. Even longtime afl commentators are bemoaning the quality of matches. But it's still all worth it for the extra 5k fans in west sydney and 10k fans on the GC?

A-league's expansion is worse, 2 teams died in infancy and while the other 2 clubs are surviving, the whole comp is struggling and 2 of the original teams are on deaths bed.

So maybe the nrl has got the right approach, consolidating what it's got and only expanding when the comp is truly ready for it.