Phil Rothfield- Nine Sydney teams is too many

[Shorty]

Glad you mentioned the Lions, both Lions and Suns are struggling....the Lions are in a massive spiral...which is hard to believe when there was the success back in the 00s.

 

[DiegoNT]

Gws has cost the afl over $100 million dollars so far l, and at best has attracted 5k new fans to the afl. That's a cost of $20,000 per new fan to the game

 

[BlueandGold]

Gws has cost the afl over $100 million dollars so far l, and at best has attracted 5k new fans to the afl. That's a cost of $20,000 per new fan to the game

Expanding into places that have no interest in your game will cost you close to 100million over 5 years per team.

The AFL put aside 200million to cover expansion teams.

"These are big investments, $100 million each. They are going to drain. You can pretend they're not, and say no, it doesn't happen. But they're a lot more than we originally budgeted for. They're $100 million, they were always going to be $100 million," Kelty said.
"On the very first day we talked about it, Ron Evans said 'Don?t contemplate this unless you are prepared to invest $100 million each team'.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-...-league-on-the-cheap-says-former-commissioner

Cook told AFL.com.au that the Gold Coast and Greater Western Sydney clubs were set to be a financial drain in the long-term and that the AFL had under-estimated the cost of expansion.
?I think the AFL will probably need to underwrite Greater Western Sydney and the Gold Coast for some time,? Cook said.
?Probably for a lot longer than some people think and probably at a lot more expense than even the AFL wish to admit.

http://sportsbusinessinsider.com.au...-under-estimates-expansion-costs-geelong-ceo/




Expansion is going worse than they could ever imagine.


Fortunately the NRL expansion options are not the same scenario as say GWS and the Suns.


Perth has interest based on there player numbers and crowds.


2nd Brisbane would loose money but no were near what the Suns and GWS are loosing.

 

[beave]

Beaves !!

I love this song

Boys boys boys

To be honest it's not much better than life at the outpost

[youtube]6X9tBHX_Fl4[/youtube]

For those who havent been to a game in NQ, they play this song over the PA when the boys win. Was alright back in the day when they didn't win a hell of a lot.......... It does grow on you!! The choreography is simply superb. I don't know if the song is that masculine it has made itself untintentionally looked quite fruity or it is indeed aimed at that demographic.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Perth Red]

Just out of interest, who is going to be paying the West Coast Pirates' bills?

They're gonna need an awfully big treasure chest.

Same as other clubs without pokie machines I guess? We have had a 7 figure sponsor committed (probably cash converters). No doubt we'll need start up support to make sure the club starts from a strong base though. We've shown there are at least 21k fans willing to pay to go to a game so I guess we have a reasonable start point for membership and attendance sales. 150k tuned into GF from Perth so I guess there is a wider support as well. Not sure how many other boxes we can tick tbh, comparing expansion to Perth and Brisbane to Suns and gws is lunacy. Afl have a long term goal they are willing to invest massive sums in reaching. We are still reactive to the way the game is being poorly run.

 

[Perth Red]

No, it isn't ok, because if Sydney clubs are struggling now then you're just adding more clubs that are struggling.

Not enough revenue going through to weigh up the risks associated, the NRL wants to grow not go broke.
Struggling clubs come good when all across the board of the NRL is strong, you don't add more struggle.
Seriously not that hard to comprehend!

Do you know how much the nrl's revenue has gone up since 2012? How much it is predicted to go up by 2018? Bollox they can't afford expansion and to bail out sht run clubs that have decades to get their act together at the same time.

The NRL laying the blame for a lack of vision at the broke clubs doors is a joke, if they are unsustainable either kick them or fund them properly if they are so underfunded.

It's k saying it needs planning, we've been saying it for 7 years! When does the planning start?

 

[Parra]

Why should the NRL pay for crap teams to do f**k all in their crap locations?

This is not the AFL - get that straight. It's not the benevolent society either. Get a team together that can compete and make a case.

Expecting a hand-out is not going to cut it.

You could always move to Sydney.

 

[Shorty]

Do you know how much the nrl's revenue has gone up since 2012? How much it is predicted to go up by 2018? Bollox they can't afford expansion and to bail out sht run clubs that have decades to get their act together at the same time.

The NRL laying the blame for a lack of vision at the broke clubs doors is a joke, if they are unsustainable either kick them or fund them properly if they are so underfunded.

It's k saying it needs planning, we've been saying it for 7 years! When does the planning start?

Yes let's boot struggling teams out since that went swimmingly last time didn't it!

 

[DiegoNT]

Same as other clubs without pokie machines I guess? We have had a 7 figure sponsor committed (probably cash converters). No doubt we'll need start up support to make sure the club starts from a strong base though. We've shown there are at least 21k fans willing to pay to go to a game so I guess we have a reasonable start point for membership and attendance sales. 150k tuned into GF from Perth so I guess there is a wider support as well. Not sure how many other boxes we can tick tbh, comparing expansion to Perth and Brisbane to Suns and gws is lunacy. Afl have a long term goal they are willing to invest massive sums in reaching. We are still reactive to the way the game is being poorly run.

You compared the nrl to afl on expansion saying nrl is losing that battle, yet when people explain how much of a disaster the AFL's expansion is you say comparing the 2 is lunacy?
The talk here is about ditching a struggling sydney team like the Tigers for an expansion team like perth.
Perth has potential and should be considered, but at the moment if you replace tigers you run the risk of alienating hundreds of thousands of fans. Not just the hardcore fans, but the whole west sydney/campbelltown area, and the many who like their Facebook page, watch their games, when tigers are successful they draw well on TV. They drew 40, 000 to a game with parra just last year. They drew 70, 000 to a preliminary final with the dragons not long ago.
If they are replaced with a perth team the nrl lose all that and only gain probably 15k hardcore perth fans to begin with. They may eventually gain hundreds of thousands of followers in perth but it'll take time, so to make perth work we need to consolidate the sydney teams first, strengthen them, and not lose the hundreds of thousands of supporters that follow these teams, and earn the nrl the big tv dollars

 

[RedVDave]

What about Souths? They have plenty of experience in getting kicked out of the comp already.

Obviously just a bad joke, I honestly think they should merge a few Sydney teams IMO, that way all Sydney teams remain whilst at the same time reducing Sydney teams. It's a win-win situation for mine.

 

[axe&smash&crush]

Getting rid of the Tigers? He's havin' a laugh. Such a easy target at the moment. Next year they'll pick on someone else. How come the raiders seem to avoid so much of the pressure on this front??? I don't want the raiders gone, but what do they really offer to the game over anyone else? a dot on map. They got bailed out once too didn't they?

 

[beave]

They got 4-5 leagues clubs currently, they are financially very sound.

 

[alien]

I wouldn't call AFLs expansion a sucess.

except for the suns and giants, it has been. the nrl should have a fair idea if an expansion club would work. they should look at the bids and choose the best 2. it's not like i'm saying they should include more than 2 at the same time. the nrl aren't broke now. 2018 is the right time for 2 new teams

 

[alien]

13 October, 2015 by Triple M NRL
Are There Too Many Sydney NRL Clubs?
Calls have been made to downsize the NRL with the struggling Wests Tigers in the firing line.

Our beloved NRL has gone under a lot of changes over the years.

Crowds have grown (and sometimes shrunk) and clubs come and go (or get merged) as the game continues to develop and beomce increasingly popular both here and overseas.


There's no doubt that the game's heartland is in New South Wales with the majority of teams in the state but some believe that there are too many teams.

In The Daily Telegraph, controversial NRL commentator Phil 'Buzz' Rothfield made comment on where he believes the game must got to expand and survive, including the cull of one or more Sydney teams.

"In my view the team facing the biggest challenges is without question the Wests Tigers," said Rothfield in the Daily Telegraph.

Well of course on Triple M Sydney's The Grill Team, Matty Johns and Mark Geyer had a response to these claims.

"It's always an ongoing debate, I'd like to see criteria, every club tick a criteria, ticket membership," responded MG to the claims of having one less club.

"The problem is, when a team goes, you disenfranchise fans, I still run into North Sydney Bear fans and they just go 'mate I'm sorry I just don't follow it like I used to'," explained Matty.

"I think we're getting to the point that all teams can be viable," Matty said.

Wests Tigers new CEO Justin Pascoe has rejected claims that his team would be the one to go if the NRL was too downsize the competition.

Should there be one less Sydney team? If so, is it the Wests Tigers time to go?

http://www.triplem.com.au/sydney/sport/nrl/news/2015/10/are-there-too-many-sydney-nrl-clubs/

 

[Perth Red]

Why should the NRL pay for crap teams to do f**k all in their crap locations?
.

I think that is the whole point of this thread lol. Why should the NRL keep bailing out these crap teams in their over saturated locations? Hundreds of thousands of fans? My arse, most are drawing under 15k, you trying to tell me there are another 2-300k fans of these clubs who don't go to games. Don't become members, don't buy merchandise but somehow can be classed as fans? The games no smaller for booting norths and merging some clubs, it is smaller from booting Adelaide, Perth and Sth Qland.

 

[BuffaloRules]

You compared the nrl to afl on expansion saying nrl is losing that battle, yet when people explain how much of a disaster the AFL's expansion is you say comparing the 2 is lunacy?
The talk here is about ditching a struggling sydney team like the Tigers for an expansion team like perth.
Perth has potential and should be considered, but at the moment if you replace tigers you run the risk of alienating hundreds of thousands of fans. Not just the hardcore fans, but the whole west sydney/campbelltown area, and the many who like their Facebook page, watch their games, when tigers are successful they draw well on TV. They drew 40, 000 to a game with parra just last year. They drew 70, 000 to a preliminary final with the dragons not long ago.
If they are replaced with a perth team the nrl lose all that and only gain probably 15k hardcore perth fans to begin with. They may eventually gain hundreds of thousands of followers in perth but it'll take time, so to make perth work we need to consolidate the sydney teams first, strengthen them, and not lose the hundreds of thousands of supporters that follow these teams, and earn the nrl the big tv dollars

Gotta agree with you.. when the Tigers are winning they are one of the most popular teams in Sydney...

To consider chopping them would be madness..

The Tigers have made the finals 3 teams in 15 years and never finished higher than third on the ladder, but I believe their crowds would still be in the Top 3-4 Sydney teams over that period....

What I find more concerning is teams that are topping the ladder year after year but still cant get good crowds... Why is there not more of a focus on that?

 

[roostersrule2]

Tigers are really popular with casual league fans.

I think it's a mixture of Benji in his prime, along with the exciting brand of footy they played and the fact that the Tiger is just a popular animal, with good colours.

 

[DiegoNT]

except for the suns and giants, it has been. the nrl should have a fair idea if an expansion club would work. they should look at the bids and choose the best 2. it's not like i'm saying they should include more than 2 at the same time. the nrl aren't broke now. 2018 is the right time for 2 new teams

AFL's recent expansion hasn't been a success.
Afl has introduced 4 clubs since 95. 2 have been black holes for the afl. 2 have been successful.
In that same time the nrl have had 8 expansion clubs.
4 went by the wayside due to the super league ( reds. Crushers, rams, mariners)
3 have been successful by nrl standards ( storm, warriors, Cowboys)
1 requires propping up, but nowhere near at the same level as its afl equivalent ( gold Coast).

 

[DiegoNT]

I think that is the whole point of this thread lol. Why should the NRL keep bailing out these crap teams in their over saturated locations? Hundreds of thousands of fans? My arse, most are drawing under 15k, you trying to tell me there are another 2-300k fans of these clubs who don't go to games. Don't become members, don't buy merchandise but somehow can be classed as fans? The games no smaller for booting norths and merging some clubs, it is smaller from booting Adelaide, Perth and Sth Qland.

Tigers have shown they can be popular.
They draw well on tv when they are successful.
They have a shit load of casual fans.
Campbelltown and surrounding areas is a rugby league heartland filled with fans.
Wouldn't it make sense for the nrl to get that team running to its potential.

There should be a perth team, we should be trying to attract new fans. But what's the point of attracting 100k perth fans if at the same time you lose 100k tigers fans at the same time? That's not actually growing the game. Why can't the nrl get its teams in order then expand? Why can't we have both the 100k tigers fans AND the 100k perth fans?

The argument that these clubs have had long enough to get right isn't kind of true. It's taken some clubs many years to get over the effects of the super league era, many have had trouble adjusting to the professional era, and the nrl as a whole has been mismanaged for years and been deliberately undervalued by past management. So let's give our current clubs a some time under the new management, with more money available due to better tv deals and consolidate what we've got. Nrl has the best tv ratings, more people are watching it then any other sport in Australia, so to start cutting teams now doesn't make sense, it would taking a huge backward step to lose any of the current clubs

 

[BlueandGold]

Gotta agree with you.. when the Tigers are winning they are one of the most popular teams in Sydney...

To consider chopping them would be madness..

The Tigers have made the finals 3 teams in 15 years and never finished higher than third on the ladder, but I believe their crowds would still be in the Top 3-4 Sydney teams over that period....

What I find more concerning is teams that are topping the ladder year after year but still cant get good crowds... Why is there not more of a focus on that?

So your talking about the Roosters? Minor prems and ave 14k.........just bloody terrible.

Mate they have no juniors but can use 3rd partys to stay up top the table

They do not have to pay for Jnr RL development. What do the roosters do when uncle Nick kicks the bucket?

You guessed it, relocation.

Roosters = Leaches on all the development NRL clubs.

When is the NRL going to start rewarding clubs that grow the base?

The day that happens the roosters are toast and the NRL moves forward in leaps and bounds.

Thats my rant feel free to chime in if you like..:lol::lol: