Plane Crashes Into World Trade Centre

[Eelectric]

Handing over bagfulls of money to current regimes will not solve hunger. Those Govt's could already use their oil money to do that if they wanted to, they choose not to, they chose to spend it on arms and terrorism. As long as those Govt's surviveno one would be prepared to hand them money..

Are people now saying they want the US to interfere in a country's govt?

 

[Willow]

Canadian Steve:
I don't have any answers to your questions mate. I just have more questions.
At the risk of sounding like a simpleton, I find it astounding that money can be found so quickly to wage war while the prevention of war is seen as an impossibility.
Terrorists just don't materialise overnight. They are products of disfunction which exists in the world.

It has been estimated that $20billion would provide schools to educate every child in the 3rd world for the next 20 years... that is, the children who currently without education.

I guess all I'm saying is that if more attention was paid to the basics and less attention was paid to 'protecting our corporate interests', we'd have less wars and the events that have taken place inthe USA may have been averted.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Willow: "$40 Billion pulled out of a hat in the name of revenge." The term revenge sounds like you think it's a bad thing. The US is talking about a long campaign, with their allies, to eradicate terrorism. This will not be easy to do because of the shadowy, hidden way in which these terrorists operate. Hopefully they can do it without a lot of innocent civilian casualties. If the countries which play host to these terrorists would cooperate it would help. The Americans are using the term self-defence for their actions since they have been attacked on their soil. It sounds like they want to launch a campaign that will work, as opposed to the Clinton administration which sent a cruise missiles without much effect and then stopped.
If they can do something that really works to reduce terrorism, rather than just a show of force for revenge, I think that will be a good thing

 

[CanadianSteve]

Willow: The trouble is if the US gave $20 Billion to some of those countries, it probably wouldn't go to educating kids, as Eelectric points out.

 

[legend]

Willow, the U.S would have a "war chest" contingency fund in times like this. They are not just pulling the money from thin air, it would have been budgeted for somewhere down the line. The U.S military is a means to an end so long as they carry out their operations correctly and don't do a halfassed job, which I am sure they wont. I don't think there has ever been a time in the history of the world when there has never been conflict and civil wars. The U.S military is a big business in itself and companies like Boeing, Lockheed, and other multinationals need conflict to restore flagging sales. Even companies like Microsoft and Cisco would be itching for a global conflict, as they get to develop the latest military software systems and so on. I think you have to look at the bigger picture. BHP-Billeton would be itching for a war as would companies like WMC, Woodside, Pasminco, Shell, Exxon etc. The opportunities that would present themselves would be endless and Australia as an ally would be in a position to capitalise.

 

[Willow]

No worries Steve.

One of the great things about democracy ia a diversity of opinion. IMO, we're not seeing that right now.
There is no mention in the US media about the thousands of people who have died as a result of US foriegn policy. It is simply not on the agenda.
The resulting rage is leading to the miltary having a free reign as to how they deal with this. I find that frightening. Thats my view.

Last night in Brisbane, a Mosque was fire bombed. This was in retaliation for the actions a few Muslims who celebtrated the terrorists attack. The same people were quickly told to pull their heads in by other members of the Islamic community.
I'm sure similar things are happening in the USA albeit on a larger scale.

BTW, at no point was I suggesting that the USA give billions of dollars to the 3rd world. That is yours and Eelectric's assumption.
I know such a course is more complicated than simply writing a cheque.

I was merely pointing out the blatant inequity and the questionable priorities which exist in the western communities.

 

[CanadianSteve]

There have been some acts of vandalism and threats against Muslims in the US, but not as many as you'd expect (from what I've seen on TV. And the US networks made a point today of trying to speak against acts against Islamic and/or Arabic Americans.
What happened in Brisbane was wrong, but it was pretty insensitive of of those people to be celebrating.
We obviously have different views of the US. As a neighbour I don't always like what they do, but on balance I think they do try defend democracy and freedom in the world. But of course there is a lot of self-interest in their policies, too. Overall I'm sure you Australians are better off being their ally than not

 

[legend]

This was found on the CNN message board:

"Well, you hit the World Trade Center, but you missed America. You hit the Pentagon, but you missed America.
You used helpless American bodies, to take out other American bodies, but like a poor marksman, you STILL missed America.
Why? Because of something you guys will never understand.
America isn't about a building or two, not about financial centers, not about military centers. America isn't about a place, America isn't even about a bunch of bodies. America is about an IDEA. An idea, that you can go someplace where you can earn as much as you can figure out how to....live for the most part like you envisioned living, and pursue happiness. (No guarantees that you'll reach it, but you can sure try!)
Go ahead and whine your terrorist whine, and chant your terrorist litany: "If you can not see my point, then feel my pain." This concept is alien to Americans. We live in a country where we don't have to see your point. But you're free to have one. We don't have to listen to your speech. But you're free to say one.
Don't know where you got the strange idea that everyone has to agree with you. We don't agree with each other in this country, almost as a matter of pride. We're a collection of guys that don't agree, called States. We united our individual States to protect ourselves from tyranny in the world. Another idea we made up on the spot. You CAN make it up as you go, when it's your country. If you're free enough.
You guys seem to be incapable of understanding that we don't live in America, America lives in US!
American Spirit is what it's called. And killing a few thousand of us, or a few million of us, won't change it. Most of the time, it's a pretty happy-go-lucky kind of Spirit. Until we're crossed in a cowardly manner, then it becomes an entirely different kind of Spirit.
Wait until you see what we do with that Spirit, this time.
Sleep tight, if you can. We're coming."

 

[Eelectric]

I was merely pointing out the blatant inequity and the questionable priorities which exist in the western communities.
Willow, why limit it to just western communities? In my viewif eastern communities spent more on their people and less on their little petty factional wars then the west wouldn't have to deal with it all the time. What aboutIraq V Iran war some years ago, how was that western politics and how many died in that war, and how much money was wasted?

IMO all western communities should pull right out of the area and just leave them do what they want to one another. Just let them go at it and sort it out for themselves.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Great post Legend. In spite of their imperfections, it sums up the American spirit beautifully.

 

[El Duque]

First we had Nostradamus and now we have this.

 

[legend]

Thanks mate. I just wish Australians showed one tenth the national pride the Americans do. Love em or hate em, you have to admire their determination and their enduring spirit and THAT is the reason why they are the most powerful country in the world. We let athletes carry two flags when they win a race, we try to put a folk song as a national anthem and we are supposed to say sorry for finding Australia. I have been to America and seen the pride they have and it is to be admired. We had a council/local government try and change it's logo to replace Captain Cook with a dolphin. An embarrassment and the epitome of political correctness.

 

[G@v]

It sounds like more attacks have been thwarted. Several arrests were made at NY's La Guardia Airport.

 

[Willow]

Eelectric:
The second I hit the send button I suddenly knew that line would be picked up by someone. Short of deleting it and starting again, I decided to leave it because thats how I felt.
The fact is that US foreign policy has for some time been tampering in the affairs of other countries.
George Washington warned of this and urged future generations not to 'meddle in the affairs of other states'.
Ever since the Americans drove the Spanish out of North America and chased them across the Pacific then conquered them in the Philipines, US foreign policy has been one of expansion.

I couldn't agree with you more. It's time forthe West to take George Washington's advice and leave other countries to their own devices.

 

[Eelectric]

Geez Legend, I'm starting to admire you, well said.

 

[G@v]

Legend, believe me, you Aussies show just as much pride in your country as anyone. We Poms certainly notice that. I don't think Americans are any more patriotic than most, maybe they just shout about it more than the rest. That doesn't mean they have more spirit. That message is just one persons view of all this.

 

[legend]

Doesnt that fly in the face of what the statue of liberty is all about. Something about giving me your poor, tired and yearning masses......

If America were to simply drop its bundle and not "meddle" in the affairs of other countries how could they take in refugees without somehow meddling in the affairs of other countries. You would also see the Jewish population be exterminated in a matter of months and Australia would become the mainland for Indonesia. Wishful thinking guys.

 

[Dog]

El Duque, that is the biggest load of shit I've seen since, well, ever.

Someone at CNN has a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge imagination....

Dog

 

[G@v]

Let's not forget that peoplefrom many different nations, cultures and beliefs have been victims of this terror.

 

[Eelectric]

Willow, you may indeed be right but personally I am glad they gave us a hand in the pacific during WW2. I have always found Japenese a hard language to master, but then again maybe if I was born to it...