Plane Crashes Into World Trade Centre

[Hass]

On this daylast year the Olympic torch was about to be run across the Harbour Bridge. More Australians were showing pride in their country than had ever been seen before. Australians are a "patriotic" bunch- however I feel that America has stolen the word "patriotic". When I think of a "patriot", I think of an American.

What they have done is take patriotism and create nationalism with it. Nationalism is not good. We ask questions in Australia about wether we are a good country or not, we look at ourselves in the mirror and sometimes condemn things we did in the past. This isn't a lack of patriotism, but an annalysis on how we can make this country we are all proud of better.

I have never experienced more pride in my country than when I was on a train with fellow Australians singing, that folk song- Waltzing Matilda. It's who we are, and we're all BLOODY PROUD TO BE AUSTRALIANS!

Cheers.

 

[Eelectric]

I can't understand any feelings of revenge which come frompeople who were thousands of miles from the scene's of these tragedies. All I can deduce from this reaction is an hawkishness by lots of armchair generals.
BTW Gav, if that was directed at me I have told you once already but I will tell you again. I lost family to those bastards so it is NOT thousands of miles away to me, its in my heart and soul every day of my life and my feelings don't come from pontification from afar thank you all the same.

 

[G@v]

Eelectric, it wasn't aimed at you. I know you lost family, and although I can't understand what you are going through, I can understand why you might feel anger at this time. My little rant was directed at those amongst us who have no idea what war is like but are all too willing to call for it.

I do believe that the only way you can stop terrorism in the long term is by getting to the root of the problem, finding out the reasons why. But we are still many centuries from such an enlightened aproach. And no-one will budge me on that view, and if you knew me you'd soon realise why.

 

[Willow]

Eelectric: With all due respect not one OFFICIAL has made that comment. (this is war) What they have said is "it is an act of war".

I think we can take in the following comments from George W Bush:
"Now that war has been declared on us, we will lead the world to victory...
...this is the first war of the 21st Century."

 

[Eelectric]

Fair enough Gav.

Just 2 points. Firstly not the US or anyone else can solve the problems over there without first having to decide which nation to destroy. By that I mean the region will never know peace as long as Israel exists. Many have sworn to the extinction of Israel and they are the ones who disrupt every attempt at peacefull resolution. So it is either one or the other and I don't think the any western country is ever going to solve that root cause. The US was foolish to even try, guess they were naive as well.

Secondly, what did you mean by referring to me as TMK, care to explain what that stands for or is it best I don'task

 

[Eelectric]

Willow, I know you don't like Bush and maybe that is clouding your thought.

think we can take in the following comments from George W Bush: "Now that war has been declared on us, we will lead the world to victory...
...this is the first war of the 21st Century."

To me he is referring to the war against terrorism. He has made many statements along those lines including that it would be a long and difficult battle and that people should not expect any quick solutions. If you listen to it all it takes a different context.

 

[Willow]

eelectric... nothing is clouding my thoughts. For Pete's sake. I was merely posting a quote for your benefit.
You said no official had said 'this is war'. I thought you should you know that Pres Bush has said as much in very definite terms.

Listen, We've been here before. Do not assume that I am out of line for making mere commentary and never assume that you know what is going on in my thoughts.

 

[Willow]

By the way, TMK stands for 'To My Knowledge'. I hope this is of further assistance to you.

 

[G@v]

Eelectric, TMK = to my knowledge.

Britain and it's empire caused many problems, likewise, the US is facing today what we faced, only on a much greater scale.

I know this sounds naive, but it's also true. Unless we learn to live together as one world we will never solve any of these problems. That includes all sides!

This century may prove to be the one where we begin to realise how connected we all are.

 

[Eelectric]

Listen, We've been here before. Do not assume that I am out of line for making mere commentary and never assume that you know what is going on in my thoughts
Willow, as you told me last time, now I think it is your turn tocalm down,besides, I did not say you were out of line, I simply answeredyour post to me.

You said no official had said 'this is war'. I thought you should you know that Pres Bush has said as much in very definite terms.
Yes, and I stand by that, at least in the context your using the term War.What you are quoting is not a declaration of war in the normal sense and if you take the whole speech it is quite clear. In any case, nothing has been done or made official yet soI don't see how one can be judged on what others may think they will do.

 

[Eelectric]

Gav, no, I do not think that is naive, it is also my ferverent desire. I would not have suffered the loss I did if the world had of achieved that. I pray we can yet do so before others also suffer losses.

 

[Dog]

As we were saying on ICQ last night willow, the world is too level headed to engage in such destruction. People know what war will mean - they are too smart to do anything stupid.

Dog

 

[Eelectric]

Willow, just to clarify something. Below is my post No 96 12/9/01.

This is terrorism pure and simple, it is a surpriseattack with no warning not only on the targets themselves but on thepopulation as a whole. It is designed to make people live in fear of not knowing when or where the next attack will come from. It was done anonymously and it should not be confused with war or politics. These f**kers are sick and my hope is the all countries will combine in an effort to seek out and eliminate these bastardswherever they are.Each country should combine to hunt down and exterminate all known groups once and for all.


I have never proposed or supported a war against anyone other than terrorists. Not a war in the normal sense of it but a systematic elimination of all terrorists by the combined effort of a united world. Not a war by one country but a campaign by all countries. I stick to that, I don't want innocents killed or country's destroyed but I do want terrorism eliminated. Is that a bad thing to want?

 

[Willow]

Hi Dog:
Yeah, I got alot of ICQs and MSN messenger msgs last night about this very issue. A lot of people are very scared. The whole thing is out of our hands but lets hope cool heads prevail.

Eelectric:
Willow, as you told me last time, now I think it is your turn tocalm down

Mate, I felt concern about you last night and I still do.
I don't dislike or like Bush. He is of no consequence in all this. Your assumption that I dislike him is wrong. But I think his comments are a declaration of war. IMO, there's no denying this.

 

[Willow]

No Eelectric, there is no crime in wanting an elimination to Terrorism. Once again, no one is saying otherwise.

 

[Dog]

a couple of things, willow, what's your msn messengeremail thingy?

and

hasn't this event been covered enough? It's starting to get irritating. Nine still had continuing coverage right through to 5 or 6 this arvo.

ABC as I understand is still going but I can't be sure as my aerial is fudged.

It happened and people want to get on with life, and in my case have.

As I've said, life goes on.

Dog

 

[Dog]

Oh my god!

I've just found out that my best friend's aunty was crushed in the WTC fall...

Nothing is confirmed but they are unfortunately 100% sure that she was in the second tower when it collapsed.

I hope she's alright.

Dog

 

[Hass]

While we don't know who is responsible for this attack it is not going to leave our television screens. It isn't simply something that has happened- it is something that is happening. Once we do know who has committed the attack, the question remains- will the U.S. plunge us into war.

Once this issue is settled- then it should leave our screens and let us get on with our lives.

Cheers.

 

[Hass]

I'm sorry to hear that Dog. It just points out how close to home this tragedy actually is.

 

[Eelectric]

Your assumption that I dislike him is wrong.
fair enough, it was only an observation, I meant nothing by it.

But I think his comments are a declaration of war. IMO, there's no denying this.
Well Tony Blair was just on CNN where he basically said the same as Bush but I take him to mean a figurative war against terrorism as well.

Look Willow, I only answered your post respectfullyby giving my side of it. I did not denigrate anything you said and of course I respect your right to your opinion.I have re read what I said and as Ican't see anything wrong with what I wrotefigure itsbest if I just avoid conversation with you in futureso as not to cause any more problems.

Cheers. (and I mean thatsincerely)