Plane Crashes Into World Trade Centre

[ozbash]

the american inaction proves that they are still as impotent as they were from the days of the gulf "war".
bush is a gutless wonder.
the taliban will strike again before bush and the patheticly posturing tony blair decide which rock to look under next.
the families of the 6000 people murdered must be just about around the bend........

 

[Willow]

One good news story today:
The Afghanistan National Cricket team has announced that they will still be going ahead with a tour of Pakistan next year. There were fears that the tour would be cancelled following news of probable conflict.
Afghanistan Cricket has been given the full support of the Taliban.
Cricket has often been called 'the great leveller.'

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Gotta disagree Ozbash. What do you expect the Americans to do? Bomb Afghanistan to rubble? Fine lot of good thats gonna do, all that it will achieve is killing a whole bunch of innocent civilians while Bin Laden & co hide out somewhere safe, and it will alienate the rest of the muslim world against the US. The Taliban dont care if the US kill Afghan civilians, it will just make them stronger. I feel sorry for the families of those killed in the WTC attacks as well, but a knee-jerk response is about the stupidest thing that the US could do at the moment. Far better to prove to the world that they know who masterminded the attacks, and then get rid of them, and only them.

 

[Dog]

If the US goes to war, I'll go to war on them.

Thye have no right to kill anyone except bin Laden.

Cheers

Tim

 

[mud n blood]

What about those who support and try to justify what he did ???

You are joking here, right ???

 

[Dog]

Sorry, I didn't mean anything I said there.
I was just dragging it back to the top because I'm sure there are still some important issues that need to be discussed.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Willow]

Mud & Blood: Well it all depends who you think is supporting bin Laden. I'm guessing that you're ready to blame Afghanistan in it's entirety.
I'm also a little curious who it is that has justified the attack on the WTC. I assume this is what you mean by "...try to justify what he did ". Who is it that makes public justifications for such acts?
IMO, this can join the other media-led assumptions. That and the question of who is actually responsible for this far reaching catastrophe... which BTW, didn't develop overnight.

 

[ozbash]

anybody who supports thje principles bin laden stands for should be exterminated.
whether they are taliban,afghani,iranian or australian.
there is only one way to rid the world of terrorism and diplomacy doesnt figure.
they are vermin.

 

[ozbash]

the palestinians shown on tv ,dancing in the streets, celebrating the wtc attack would be classed as supporters in my book.
when the japenese bombed pearl harbour, the yanks locked up every person of japanese extraction living in the U.S. (I think we did too), the U.S must do the same to these supporters of terrorism.

 

[Willow]

Ozbash: Are you suggesting that all Muslims get interned?

The scenes of Palenstians 'dancing in the streets' is now stock footage which got a few replays despite the fact that it was a very small monority and in some cases, the footage was old and pre-WTC. Still, if people choose to believe the worst, who am I to stop them?

The internment in Australia of citizens of Japanese, Italian and German extraction did indeed happen during WWII. In fact a number of people from 'unknown' European and Asian origins were also interned only to find out later that they were of allied nationality... such is the madness of war which always allows ignorance to fester to the top.

One horrendous example of ignorance getting a grip of people also happened in WWII during the Battle of Britain. The story goes that English villagers saw a fighter plane being shot down overa field and then saw a parachutist land safely nearby. The menfolk wasted no time getting to the fighter pilot who couldn't speak a word of English andwas crying out a number of Germanic phrases.
The locals were enragedby his presence and beat him to death.
It was later revealed that this was in fact a Dutch pilot who had joined the Allied cause and the plane he was shot down in was a Spitfire.

 

[mud n blood]

Thank you, OB ..... you got it in one.

No - I don't subscribe to the theory of being led by the media .... BUT! .... I'm finding it very hard to fathom the images of kids and families celebrating in the street, or those other scumbags carrying placards around of Bin Laden's face saying "he's a good man", or the burning of American flags and effigies in public streets. This is not arguable.

I'm sorry - they should die. I wonder how you and I would get on burning an effigy of Ala, or a flag from any of those countries ? Let's be fair dinkum here.

If they don't like the states or yanks, then so be it. There is no excuse for wanton murder of thousands of civilians, so fu(k 'em.

 

[Willow]

"This is not arguable."
Mate, it's always arguable... always. Don't right off any objections to such a serious issue in such a flippant manner.
The images of Palenstinians celebrating in the street is stock footage ofminorities. Read what I said.

"There is no excuse for wanton murder of thousands of civilians, so fu(k 'em"
I agree. There is no excuse. There is no excuse for the dying millions in the Middle East. There is no excuse for the targetting of the WTC. There is no excuse for the probable destruction of countless lives which we are about to witness over the 10 years of 'infinite justice.'
No excuse whatsoever.

 

[ozbash]

willow, i am sugesting that any person who is sympathetic to bin laden or supportsthe ideology of anti west terrorism is the enemy as of 11th sept 2001.
they should be killed.

it will become a great arguing peice. idealists v realists. pacifists v confrontationalists.
lucky we are "civilised" and can discuss it with an open mind.

 

[Willow]

Ozbash: I've got no doubt that we can discuss things with an open mind and in a civilised manner.
IMO, someone who is anti-imperialist could easily be tarred with the same brush as supporters of maniacs who see violence as the only answer.
In the 21st century, Capitalismis being replaced by monopoly corporations. A number of people will agree with this. Does this make them dissidents and therefore sympathetic to terrorism? Hardly, but in a mad world, we could see a few freedoms slip by the wayside in the interest of this new version of justice.
But more to the point.. do we really think that by killing people, we are in some way superior to them?

 

[Willow]

Also, if we are to find these supporters of bin Laden, I suggest that certain US government officials have a case to answer. It was afterall, the CIA who in recent history, trained and funded bin Laden.

 

[ozbash]

monopolistic corporations are a fact of western life whether we like it or not.
society, as we now know it would be unable to function to any degree if these corporations didnt exist,eg, toyota,ibm,coca cola,.
the fabric of society must be protected,at all costs. it must be protected from people like bin laden at least until the majority decide other wise.
i am a firm believer in the biblical quote "an eye for an eye", it is very fitting for what has happened recently.
bush is now trying to portray an international image of a statesman and humanitarian.its a load of shit that is designed soley for catching votes,not terrorists.
if the same thing (wtc attack) happened in brisbane at C.H.O.G.M, i wonder what the australian reaction would be.the whole country would be screaming for taliban blood and the screaming wouldnt stop until that blood was delivered.bush , on the other hand is trying to deliver the people of the western world,red water.
america must act, they have to show these animals they cannot get away with murder...

 

[Bebeto in Japan]

OzBash.......Don't mean to be a smart arse but you have made one very big fundamental error. "An eye for an eye" is NOT in the bible, it is in the Koran which is the Islamic Holy Book. The bible tells us to "turn the other cheek". You are actually agreeing with traditional Islamic values here.

However, I agree that action must be taken but against who and how remains to be seen. If USA attacks the wrong people, there will be a full scale war and that is something that we must avoid at all costs. It is easy to say nuke em all, but that will cause more problems than what it will solve.

I am not a fan of American policies and George W Bush but I sympathise with him here because his decision is going to change the face of the world. He can't afford a minor slip up because the situation is so volatile, that the smallest error will start World War 3 in my opinion. Osama Bin Laden is an imbecile whether or not he is responsible for these attacks or not. Killing him may not be a solution because his supporters will rise and that will be destructive as well. For now, the best thing is to contain the suspected terrorists. It is frustrating with so much of the world living in fear but it is the only way unfortunately. We have reached a point of no return.

 

[imported_bronco]

Hi guys just thought i'd add my thoughts to this topic.

Has anyone seen the documentary "under the veil" on CNN, its been played quite a few times and i suggest if you have access to the CNN channel you take time to take a look at this documentary because it shows first hand the disgusting regime the Taliban are running.

Women aren't allowed to work and spend their days on street sides begging for money to feed their children. In most cases their husbans have been murdered by the Taliban and they have no source of income. One women was forced to by mouldy breed and grind it up for 4 children.

The world payed for a soccer stadium to be used to lift Afgan spirits after the cival war. The Taliban now use it for public execution. People are shot in the goal box and hung from the goal posts. The Talibans response to this was "the world should build us places to execute people".

There were scenes of places the Taliban had swept through. They killed hundreds of people for no reason. The skeletons were horrific, their heads caved in. Young men were skalped and other horrible things.

I've told you this to illustrate my point. The people to target are the Taliban. These are people who have used religion as a scapegoat to murder inocent people. The civilians are strugging, they live each day in fear of their lives and they are hurting just as much as America. Air strikes only kill inocent people, America need to send troops in and take out the Taliban and restore Afganistan to a democratic society. They need to get aid workers in there to help the people and they need to help start rebuilding a country that is in rubble. Whether they are terroists or not the world needs to help a nation of people who are being held hostage.

Cheers
bronco

 

[Bebeto in Japan]

The Taliban government is sick I swear.

It is kind of ironic that in the past year or so, I had received several chain emails regarding the Talibans and what they did to their people (especially women not being able to go beyond their letter boxes), and we were asked to sign a petition and to send it to some bloke from the UN. I signed it and forwarded it to several friends who replied back to me, "Who gives a shit! We are in Australia, it is not our problem!" How ironic that many of them are talking about bombing Afghanistan, seeing now that what goes on in other countries does end up affecting us.

Bronco....I recently saw a documentary on the ABC regarding Iraq and how the sanctions are crippling the civilians and not the government (which I have stated in several posts on this very thread). Back in 1991, George Bush Senior said that the war was against Saddam, not against the people of Iraq. The footage on that documentary shows otherwise. The reason for anti-American sentiment becomes quite obvious when those pictures are seen. This is why I hope for calm during this time of crisis. If George Bush Junior copies his father, it has been nice knowing everyone on this forum. Good bye and I hope to see as many of you in heaven.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

I think there are 2 fundamental questions that need answering before G.Bush goes for a huge attack on the Taliban....And Bin Laden
-What are the military capabilities of Bin Laden supporters (Across the world). Im talking nuclear weapons. We need to know how capable they are of causing destruction.
-How will Bin Ladens supporters react worldwide if Bin Laden is killed. Don't think the issue is isolated. A huge percentage of the Indonesian population are supporters of Bin Laden
Here is the problem. If Bush blows up the Taliban, he better be bloody certain that this won't cause a chain of catastrophic events across the world. I will commend Bush at this point. He hasn't rushed into anything, rather, tried to shore up support....a smart move, his attempts to help Afghan refugees should further get him on the good side of '?' countries...
MFC.