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Plane Crashes Into World Trade Centre

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Bebeto in Japan

Juniors
Messages
110
Bigbopper....You are right, this has nothing to do with sport but it is an issue which is the hottest bit of news in the world. Although no one likes any humanitarian tragedy to take place, we can't ignore it either. The fact that several sporting contests have been postponed I guess indirectly makes it a sporting issue.

pepe...I will get you at number #600. If we get that far
emwink.gif

 
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legend

Guest
Bebeto, I have to admit once I saw this post hit 500 I started to sweat but as I am the manager this thread may well fall one short of the worst player thread.lol
 
B

^^^Braith's@babe^^^

Juniors
Messages
6
I still can't believe what has happened in America, it is a real tragedy and my condolences go out to the families of the victims. I really wouldn't know what the best or most appropriate solution is but surely making more widows and orphans cannot be it.

I read this thread this morning and I can see both perspectives, terrorism needs to be eradicated but the question is how many lives need to be lost in the process.
 
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legend

Guest
Two great questions there Braiths@babe, and two questions I can't answer and I doubt if anyone else could give you an accurate answer. I am surprised by the way the U.S handled the response. It seems to be well thought out and not a impulsive reaction. They U.S are to be commended for the way they handled the crisis to date. My feeling is things will get a lot uglier though.
 
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Cronulla_Mania

Bench
Messages
4,446
So now the true stories are surpressed once again. The truth behind these attacks will never be known, the typical 'westerner' will never know how many people were killed, how many bases were blown up or even if Bin Laden is still alive. You can bet your bottom dollar that the media has been told to surpress these stories, we wont get a true report of what happened, it will be all 'sweetened up' to make it sound like a success...For all we know, it could be another Vietnam (America reporting it as a success when they lost thousands and thousands of troops)...But lets not lose sight of the fact that there are no winners in war.
Its propaganda people. America are not going to report exactly where they targeted, for all we know, missiles may have strayed and hit innocent populations...and we will never know the truth, because there are no 'reliable' media agencies in Afghanistan at the moment. I still haven't worked out why such a large military build up is necessary to eliminate one man and a moderately sized group of followers..can anyone answer this? And exactly how is the US/Britain/Alliance intending to eliminate a man with scud missiles if he is living in caves kilometres under the ground surface? Only ground troops would get that job done.....
But as i said, who knows.....who knows what is happening...Do you??
Moffo.
 
Willow

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,918
BigBopper:
First of all I'd like to say I had no idea that thisthread would get to 500, none of us did. As far as I know only one other thread has done this and that's Legend's Worst Player thread at WORL (about 594, last time I saw it?). I guess it showshow concerned people are about war and the thread will stay as long as people want it to.

I understand that some other forums have banned any discussion about this subject... I think that's unfortunate.
I know this thread appears on the surface to having nothing to do with sport but as Bebeto said, sport will be effected. It's a war which will pervade everything including our weekend enjoyment.

However, we do seem to have at least one sad individual here who is it treating it like a game of football. I'm afraid there are somemind sets in the world that I just can't fathom.

 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
MFC: I don't think much censorship is going on. CNN and other outlets will show what is going on when possible. Bin Laden's message would not have been shown to the world if there was censorship taking place.
BTW, after viewing his message, there is not much doubt that he was behind the attacks on America. The US should be commended for the careful way in which they are conducting this operation. They seem to be trying hard to minimize civilian casualties, to limit the targets to Taliban military targets and terrorist bases. Also they are dropping food and other aid for civilians. I'm sure some here will be cynical about this but it looks like the coalition is trying to do the right thing
 
V

Vertigo

Guest
If you click on the photo, it will give you a split screen shot of pre and post.

Scroll down the page for smaller and enhanced shots.


Vertigo.

 
T

Tanae the Warrior

Juniors
Messages
22
Even though I have read most of this thread this is my first contribution to it.
A friend of mine told me that this appeared as a full page advertisment in the New York Times and the other Major Papers around the world. This is the link to it:
http://www.worldpeaceendowment.org/images/nytad.gif
I thought it was quite interesting that their are potentialy other ways to create world peace without having to go to war. I found it quite appealing because it is so different.
I would be interested to hear what other people think of it
 
Willow

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,918
Canadian Steve:
"I don't think much censorship is going on. CNN and other outlets will show what is going on when possible. Bin Laden's message would not have been shown to the world if there was censorship taking place."
With respect Steve, I think there is a great deal of censorship going on. No point in going into specific examples but I think it's suffice to say that it goes on every day, either through subtle mis-reporting or outright fabrications.
Remember, the victors of war always write the history books.
I don't trust CNN to do a balanced report on this. Why should they? Afterall, they directly represent the views of American government and business. In return, they have direct access to the best interviews and best sponsorships. They are the US version of a state run media.

"Also they are dropping food and other aid for civilians. I'm sure some here will be cynical about this but it looks like the coalition is trying to do the right thing"
I'm not cynical about this. The bordering states require this as the refugees flee the bombing from a country which is already in a state of civil war and famine.
It's in the interests of the US Alliance that they are at least seen to be trying to help the innocent. However, I understand a few hardliners in the US are saying that this shouldn't be the responsibilty of the USA. Thankfully, a few clear heads still have a voice.

 
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Cronulla_Mania

Bench
Messages
4,446
Steve, im not sure how 'into' the whole terrorism war you are (being near the US and all), i would think that the censorship was in overdrive in the states more then anywhere else....All the US officals have come out and done is say how successful the attacks were. How bout the civilian casualties? They have failed to acknowledge this, im led to believe they even denied that civilians had died...how ridiculous, they let off huge amounts of bombs through all 6 major cities in Afghanistan
Willow, you are so right...The CNN IS the state run media in the US. They are pro-american to the max. What else are they expected to report? If they dare criticise the US actions, the gov't will immediately chop them....we all know that the CNN is the most widely viewed news network in the world. Consequently, they are only allowed to report in a limited style, which is CENSORSHIP!
MFC.
 
M

mud n blood

Guest
El Duque ...... seen it already. Love the way the shooter sucks on his slurpy during major carnage !!!!
embeer.gif

 
I

imported_feral dragon

Juniors
Messages
156
Canadian steve
Mate if you think censorship is not happening then you must be feeling all nice and peacefully at ease with what is happenning on your doorstep.
Me a cynic never ever!!!!
I just like the truth for all to form their own opinions in a truthful manner.
Dropping food packages in the middle of mine fields falls way short of humanitarianism in my book.
 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
f d: No I'm not at ease with what's going on at my doorstep. That's why I'm glad the US is trying to do something to stop it. I tried to go to your smh link but it froze my computer and I had to restart. But I don't think the Yanks would be intentionally dropping food into minefields. In the middle of airstrikes, I imagine these food drops are the best they can do. If and when they get ground forces there, or if the Taliban collapses, they should be able to give aid in a better manner. My point was that they are trying.
Guys: Pravda was a state-run media. The US networks are a far cry from that. Of course they seem pro-American in a case like this when their country is under attack. Most Americans feel the same way about this situation, and so their media reflects that. But I think when the civilian casualties become available, CNN and others will report it.
I would also repeat the point that if there was true censorship, we wouldn't have seen the recording of Bin Laden's statement on US.
Meanwhile, today one of Bin Laden's spokesmen today gave another statement, including comments to the effect that the WTC attacks were good deeds, and we should expect more of the same. Personally, I think it's good that the US is trying to stop people like that
 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
That's a scary statement. How can civilized countries reason with people like that?
Bush is being careful in his statements to make the point that the US is not at war with the Moslem world. They are trying hard to limit their actions to fighting terrorists. I hope more Muslims listen to Bush, and their own governments, than to fanatics like bin Laden and his men.
 
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Bebeto in Japan

Juniors
Messages
110
Steve.....I think you are missing the point of the censorship discussion. The pro-American media will show non-stop Osama Bin Laden declaring a holy war because it justifies what they are doing. They show non-stop images of a handful of Palestinians celebrating butthey only showed once the Palestinian mourners (which the pictures showed were more than the ones who were celebrating). Now that the battle has started, as MFC has already pointed out, when will we hear about civilian casualties? When will we hear about the actual costs of war, During the Gulf War, information was surpressed. Iraq was accused of starting the fires on those oil rigs when it was later discovered that it was America's doing. The media pushed the idea of Iraq startuing those fires, and when it was discovered that it was in fact America, it got so much limited coverage that most people would not have noticed it. At the end of the day, most Americans do not understand why anyone hates them (whether it be right or wrong) and that comes from the media surpressing information.
 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
Well the "truth" about Vietnam did come out. Some of it while that war was still on. The US, being a democracy, has a free press, and their involvement in Vietnam for example was debated in the media while the war was still on. We are 2 days into this military action. We aren't going to know everything right away. I understand the US military will try to control information now, during the action. That happens in every war; whether you want to call it censorship is a matter of semantics. But 6 months or a year from now the US gov't will not be dictating to the NY Times or CNN not to come out with different viewpoints on what happened in Afghanistan, or not to report on unintentional civilian casualties. That would be real, Soviet-style censorship.
I have never heard that the US started the oil rig fires in Kuwait. Which would seem to support your point, I realize. It made sense to me at the time that the Iraqis would do that on their way out of the country. Are you sure this is true? Why would the US do that, unless it was accidental
 
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