Player welfare and Kalyn Ponga

[stryker]

ponga should be allowed to play as long as he feels he is up to it. No one owes him a duty of care that involves forcing him out of his chosen career.

frankly the entire CTE thing is massively overblown. In one of the larger randomised studies on CTE they found American football players had a CTE instance of 15% vs 6% in non-athletes in the study. That’s hardly world changing. Certainly no greater than the health risks taken on by any number of professions (mining, for example).

most of the legal dangers of CTE came from the NFL actively suppressing studies into head injuries. That’s not the case in the NRL. Everyone playing today can go in with eyes wide open to the risks, and if they want to take that risk on who is anyone to deny them?

What a stupid take.
Have you or anyone you know received a heap of head knocks?
The damage is obvious.

 

[Wb1234]

Luke keary

 

[Chimp]

Genuinely believe the banning of the shoulder charge has played a huge role in the increase of defender concussions - players need to be able to turn side on and cock their shoulder for initial impact, and then wrap. Having to wrap from first contact is opening up their head for contact, either from a shoulder/forearm/elbow or accidental head clash.

 

[Danish]

What a stupid take.
Have you or anyone you know received a heap of head knocks?
The damage is obvious.

again, read the study. CTE occurrence in general non athletes 6%. In the most dangerous ball sport for concussion 15%. Higher, but not some huge difference.

if we let people smoke we can let people play rugby league

 

[Wb1234]

again, read the study. CTE occurrence in general non athletes 6%. In the most dangerous ball sport for concussion 15%. Higher, but not some huge difference.

if we let people smoke we can let people play rugby league

I liked your post

ulimately it’s up to the player to decide if he wants to leave his career early

 

[gerg]

Genuinely believe the banning of the shoulder charge has played a huge role in the increase of defender concussions - players need to be able to turn side on and cock their shoulder for initial impact, and then wrap. Having to wrap from first contact is opening up their head for contact, either from a shoulder/forearm/elbow or accidental head clash.

Hmmm. I'm not so sure about that. The studies at the time indicated that the force caused by the impact or clash when a shoulder charge was used was like whiplash. While the head wasn't always bouncing into somebody's shoulder or body the actual force was causing the brain to rattle in the skull, and supposedly that is enough to cause cte. The bad ones today are caused by poor technique because coaches want defenders to slow the ruck down by tackling above the waist.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

again, read the study. CTE occurrence in general non athletes 6%. In the most dangerous ball sport for concussion 15%. Higher, but not some huge difference.

if we let people smoke we can let people play rugby league

15% is a 2.5x increase on 6%, that’s actually pretty significant.

 

[morton's beanie]

15% is a 2.5x increase on 6%, that’s actually pretty significant.

Assuming a "non athlete" is regular Joe who outside of falling off his bike or having a car accident isn't copping collisions of any sort, I reckon that's a tiny increase compared to someone whose job is a collision sport.

Like your average bloke is only 2.5x less likely to get CTE than say Paul Gallen? James Graham?

 

[Chimp]

Hmmm. I'm not so sure about that. The studies at the time indicated that the force caused by the impact or clash when a shoulder charge was used was like whiplash. While the head wasn't always bouncing into somebody's shoulder or body the actual force was causing the brain to rattle in the skull, and supposedly that is enough to cause cte. The bad ones today are caused by poor technique because coaches want defenders to slow the ruck down by tackling above the waist.

Yes, but given we cannot entirely eliminate risk, we’re looking to minimise the risk instead. I see far more concussions on defenders nowadays than I did on attackers from ‘whiplash’.
Yes a shoulder charge can cause whiplash - but the alternative is the volume of concussions we’re seeing now.
I can only recall 3 or 4 shoulder charges that led to an attacker being knocked out (and 2 of them were direct to head and therefore illegal), we’re now seeing over 10 defenders every week knocking themselves out.

 

[Danish]

15% is a 2.5x increase on 6%, that’s actually pretty significant.

given the risk is low either way, I think talking in multiples is just sensationalising it. I could be equally correct in saying not playing contact sport decreases your chance of CTE by 60%. Which again sounds massive until you realise the starting point was already reasonably low to begin with.

if you were betting on a league match and a team was paying $20 or $7 to win, either one would be considered a long shot. similarly if I said a team was paying $1.05 or $1.15 to win you’d consider both massive favourites

 

[Danish]

Yes, but given we cannot entirely eliminate risk, we’re looking to minimise the risk instead. I see far more concussions on defenders nowadays than I did on attackers from ‘whiplash’.
Yes a shoulder charge can cause whiplash - but the alternative is the volume of concussions we’re seeing now.
I can only recall 3 or 4 shoulder charges that led to an attacker being knocked out (and 2 of them were direct to head and therefore illegal), we’re now seeing over 10 defenders every week knocking themselves out.

yep, removing a defender’s ability to use his shoulder stacked the deck against him. Especially when we allow attackers to lower their shoulders into contact.

expect concussion to get even worse if the ridiculous NSWRL rule gets up and kids don’t even start learning how to tackle till under 12s. Let alone if we adopt the insane tackling below tree waist rule that UK rugby is bringing in

 

[Generalzod]

Organise a lunch for him and his parents with Mario Fenech.
The decision will be swift.

Is rugby league the cause of his symptoms, the reason being a person who hasn’t played contact sport in his / her life can get the same disease.

 

[Dogs Of War]

Is rugby league the cause of his symptoms, the reason being a person who hasn’t played contact sport in his / her life can get the same disease.

And? If the likelyhood is increased it's good to be educated about it. Steve Mortimer can also attend, so he understands that it happens to half's as well.

It's not like brain injury only causes this sort of problem either. Black dog is way more likely, risk taking increases and then you also get things like these events...

Junior Seau - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Chris Benoit double-murder and suicide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

From wiki

"In September 2015, researchers with the United States Department of Veterans Affairs and Boston University announced that they had identified CTE in 96 percent of National Football League players that they had examined and in 79 percent of all football players.[18] By November 2016, 90 of 94 former NFL players had been posthumously diagnosed with CTE by McKee.[19] Professional players diagnosed included eight-time Pro Bowler Lou Creekmur,[20] Cookie Gilchrist[21] and Wally Hilgenberg.[22]"

Chronic traumatic encephalopathy in sports - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not sure why you would feel NRL players would be represented really any different in those sorts of stats.

 

[Danish]

Organise a lunch for him and his parents with Mario Fenech.
The decision will be swift.

I’d have to see footage of Mario at a lunch in the 80s to compare.

somehow I don’t think the conversation would be that different

 

[Slackboy72]

again, read the study. CTE occurrence in general non athletes 6%. In the most dangerous ball sport for concussion 15%. Higher, but not some huge difference.

if we let people smoke we can let people play rugby league

Need some receipts on this claim.

 

[Danish]

I

Need some receipts on this claim.

posted a link to the study in the post that one was responding to.

 

[YoHadrian]

I think the entire Newcastle team played concussed out of empathy with their team mate yesterday.

 

[Dogs Of War]

I’d have to see footage of Mario at a lunch in the 80s to compare.

somehow I don’t think the conversation would be that different

Quite easy to pick on Mario. But Mario was pushed into that role of awareness cause of his profile in the game. And I'm sure if you did have lunch with Mario then and now, you would notice the difference. Not sure if you know anyone with dementia but I watched my grandmother go through it and it was tragic to watch.

 

[Canard]

again, read the study. CTE occurrence in general non athletes 6%. In the most dangerous ball sport for concussion 15%. Higher, but not some huge difference.

if we let people smoke we can let people play rugby league

Is one study enough to sway the whole argument for you though?

I think you're fighting a losing battle claiming "it's not that bad" to get repeated concussion.

 

[Canard]

Genuinely believe the banning of the shoulder charge has played a huge role in the increase of defender concussions - players need to be able to turn side on and cock their shoulder for initial impact, and then wrap. Having to wrap from first contact is opening up their head for contact, either from a shoulder/forearm/elbow or accidental head clash.

I think, the reality is that players used to continue playing concussed and clubs turned a blind eye to it.

It's not like every single tackle was a shoulder charge, and guys like Luke Keary and Ponga would have rarely used that technique.