PNG's back.

[The Great Dane]

That's the point, making it no.1 in those countries is what andrew abdo spoke about at the start of the season, its already no.1 in PNG, got just get the other islands on board...

You're better getting a minority share of large wealthy markets than being number one in small, poor, third world nations...

 

[MugaB]

You're better getting a minority share of large wealthy markets than being number one in small, poor, third world nations...

Or do both, you know they know there is no money in the pasifika bid, all they see is increasing the player pool, and setting up proper pathways, whilst being underwritten by the govt.... They do this now, and they'll be enough players for the markets they do want to tap into, Vic2 and WA, if the Pasifika bid lasts 5 years and becomes too hard or govt backs out, falls over etc, those players and pathways remain, and can filter into the rest of the league ,by then it wont matter and growth in those other areas wouldve been started

 

[The Great Dane]

Or do both, you know they know there is no money in the pasifika bid, all they see is increasing the player pool, and setting up proper pathways, whilst being underwritten by the govt.... They do this now, and they'll be enough players for the markets they do want to tap into, Vic2 and WA, if the Pasifika bid lasts 5 years and becomes too hard or govt backs out, falls over etc, those players and pathways remain, and can filter into the rest of the league ,by then it wont matter and growth in those other areas wouldve been started

They don't need to spend and risk hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of decades, and waste one of the limited places in the competition on a team that will likely never be profitable, to build professional pathways in the PI's.

Also those pathways would dry up as soon as the funding dried up unless the NRL is willing to pick up the bill. So placing AUS gov funded NRL teams in the PI's is probably the worst way possible of tapping into this mythical unlimited talent pool in the PI's if that really is the goal. Of course it isn't the goal, the goal is for the NRL to be used as political tool in the Pacific by the Australian and United States government, and their allies, and there's very little in that for the NRL.

 

[MugaB]

They don't need to spend and risk hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of decades, and waste one of the limited places in the competition on a team that will likely never be profitable, to build professional pathways in the PI's.

Also those pathways would dry up as soon as the funding dried up unless the NRL is willing to pick up the bill. So placing AUS gov funded NRL teams in the PI's is probably the worst way possible of tapping into this mythical unlimited talent pool in the PI's if that really is the goal. Of course it isn't the goal, the goal is for the NRL to be used as political tool in the Pacific by the Australian and United States government, and their allies, and there's very little in that for the NRL.

Limited places is a myth, they can go to 22-24 teams if they wanted to, licences cost nothing, its all dependant on how much money the NRL can distribute the broadcast funds, aswell as how many players are circulating in the tital player pool around the NRL and reserve grade comps..
Your right on the fact they can set pathways from the islands without an NRL team, but why do it, when the govt is willing to fund a team for the "pasifika" and that can help set it up first and foremost, with a pathway towards that said team, like i said, afterwards if the team should go under, those said pathways could divert towards the existing franchises and then can go from there, theres no harm in trying, and that said team could garner more interest into young players getting more interested in RL over RU in those regions, Fiji is a great example of how RU is more popular there than League.

 

[The Great Dane]

The PNG and Pasifika ideas that have been thrown around so far are total nonstarters that will explode in the NRL's face sooner or later, but if the government is really going to force the issue on these PNG and Pasifika ideas then the NRL should try and twist it into something that actually has a chance of working long term, and that might actually benefit them and the sport.

I'm not necessarily endorsing this idea, just suggesting an alternative that could be beneficial to the NRL as well, but what if the NRL said flat out no to PNG, but offered to allow a government funded Pasifika team into the league if it was based in Hawaii.

• Hawaii is the only market in the Oceania region outside of AUS and NZ that is a realistic chance of sustaining an NRL side anytime in the foreseeable future, and it's one that the NRL has no presence in.

• It's a PI, so it could authentically host a Pasifika side in a way that most other proposed host locations could not.

• It's doesn't suffer from the social issues that other options do, and has a reasonable economy in it's own right.

• It might even benefit a Hawaiian team to split it's home games with other venues at least initially, and if the government wants to fund them then they could play multiple games across the pacific a season.

• It could open up a new broadcast market to the NRL that actually has some value.

• Something tells me that players and their families would find Hawaii a desirable place to live and work, and that player retention wouldn't be a problem.

Obviously I'm glossing over a lot of groundwork that would have to be put in place before you could launch such a project, but surely the government would be open to helping with that if they are so heart set on their Pasifika team. You might even attract American involvement and investment as well given that they have a vested interest in this cultural warfare with the Chinese as well.

I'd also insist that the team be for the Pacific nations, but not an ethnic/racial team. Do you really think that the Islanders would care that e.g. Cam Munster isn't a PI when he's winning premierships for them?

Anyway, I'm not seriously suggesting that this is a realistic chance of happening, just spit balling and trying to think up PIs teams that could have a chance of feasibly working.

 

[The Great Dane]

Limited places is a myth, they can go to 22-24 teams if they wanted to, licences cost nothing, its all dependant on how much money the NRL can distribute the broadcast funds, aswell as how many players are circulating in the tital player pool around the NRL and reserve grade comps..

So limited places is a myth but the NRL could only sustain 22-24 teams...

Any given competition can only sustain so many teams at any given time before the competition becomes unwieldy and/or it starts to negatively effect the quality of the product.

In the NRL's case that number is probably around 22 (at a stretch), however they have more than 5 expansion options all vying for those places, almost all of which would be more viable and valuable options than PNG. Even smaller markets like the CC, Sunshine Coast, and other similar markets, would be better options than PNG, and none of them should get a whiff of an NRL side any time in the foreseeable future either.

Also licenses have a market value, that value is important to the league, and it is effected by the quality of the product. It would have a major effect on the NRL if they were to sell a bunch of licenses to crap teams that devalued the competition, and team's license values by extension. In other words licenses don't 'cost nothing'.

Your right on the fact they can set pathways from the islands without an NRL team, but why do it, when the govt is willing to fund a team for the "pasifika" and that can help set it up first and foremost, with a pathway towards that said team

Because teams in the pacific would be very expensive luxuries that aren't sustainable. Sooner or later the NRL will either be left holding the bill for that luxury or faced with folding those teams, and they can't really afford either of those things.

They especially can't afford it when there're other options on the table that would offer a return for the NRL's investment.

, like i said, afterwards if the team should go under, those said pathways could divert towards the existing franchises and then can go from there, theres no harm in trying, and that said team could garner more interest into young players getting more interested in RL over RU in those regions, Fiji is a great example of how RU is more popular there than League.

Those pathways could only divert towards the existing teams if somebody was willing to pay for that to happen, and why not just do that from the beginning if somebody is willing to pay for that to happen?

It'd be way less risky for all involved and way more efficient, so why not? The answer to that is that it wouldn't make headlines and the pollies wouldn't have ribbons to cut, but that isn't the NRL's concern!

There's also plenty of potential harm in trying. A PNG side would be a money pit that could seriously damage the league if it got really out of control. Their struggling would be a PR nightmare as well, that could have serious implications on international relations. The NRL would be smart to avoid being involved in that.

 

[MugaB]

So limited places is a myth but the NRL could only sustain 22-24 teams...

Any given competition can only sustain so many teams at any given time before the competition becomes unwieldy and/or it starts to negatively effect the quality of the product.

In the NRL's case that number is probably around 22 (at a stretch), however they have more than 5 expansion options all vying for those places, almost all of which would be more viable and valuable options than PNG. Even smaller markets like the CC, Sunshine Coast, and other similar markets, would be better options than PNG, and none of them should get a whiff of an NRL side any time in the foreseeable future either.

Also licenses have a market value, that value is important to the league, and it is effected by the quality of the product. It would have a major effect on the NRL if they were to sell a bunch of licenses to crap teams that devalued the competition, and team's license values by extension. In other words licenses don't 'cost nothing'.

Because teams in the pacific would be very expensive luxuries that aren't sustainable. Sooner or later the NRL will either be left holding the bill for that luxury or faced with folding those teams, and they can't really afford either of those things.

They especially can't afford it when there're other options on the table that would offer a return for the NRL's investment.

Those pathways could only divert towards the existing teams if somebody was willing to pay for that to happen, and why not just do that from the beginning if somebody is willing to pay for that to happen?

It'd be way less risky for all involved and way more efficient, so why not? The answer to that is that it wouldn't make headlines and the pollies wouldn't have ribbons to cut, but that isn't the NRL's concern!

There's also plenty of potential harm in trying. A PNG side would be a money pit that could seriously damage the league if it got really out of control. Their struggling would be a PR nightmare as well, that could have serious implications on international relations. The NRL would be smart to avoid being involved in that.

Holy shit bro what a long winded reply over a bid that only has a realistic chance if they ARE getting govt funding, this isnt going ahead without govt funding, all your worries you pointed out, are only relevant if there is none at all... mate open your mind and use common sense regarding the bid, its not a bid that gets over the line without ALBO

 

[Eion]

The Bipartisan support wouldn't last, and you'd need the funding for decades, not years. There's isn't really a way to lock in funding for that kind of time period either, and there're always get outs with this sort of thing.

People talk about the AFL wasting money on expansion, but what they spend on GWS or the Suns would be chump change compared to what would have to be thrown at a PNG NRL side just to keep them alive.

Agree. It’s mental

 

[Dark Corner]

Can they not make PNG to be the next Bali or Ibiza.

 

[Canard]

That's the point, making it no.1 in those countries is what andrew abdo spoke about at the start of the season, its already no.1 in PNG, got just get the other islands on board... thats where the Pasifika angle is coming from =Abdo, the whole team being underwritten is Albo plan for politics sake, and PVL would love it coz its money not spent on the NRLs behalf, also it brings in young talent from those islands/PNG, I've said this a while back, they want this over the line, purely to boost the player pool acrosd the league, then they can bring in other important areas like Perth, or Vic2, NZ2 etc without worrying about stretching the competitions player base.... upside is another qld based team to boost origin further down the track, with players that might stem from the FNQ area, who might not normally ger a look in at the cowboys... hammer is good example of that

Rugby is No1 in the PI Nations and they already have a Super Rugby team along with there national teams.

But we think plonking a half arsed team split across 4 or 5 tiny islands will suddenly make our game No1?

That's the sort of arrogant attitude that we deride Rugby and Aussie Rules for having.

It's the same arrogant attitude behind the Vegas junket, "if th Yanks just watch one game, they will be hooked!!"

You're other point about creating an entire NRL team, just to capture locals from the Cairns District RL is ridiculous overkill.

 

[Pneuma]

Or do both, you know they know there is no money in the pasifika bid, all they see is increasing the player pool, and setting up proper pathways, whilst being underwritten by the govt.... They do this now, and they'll be enough players for the markets they do want to tap into, Vic2 and WA, if the Pasifika bid lasts 5 years and becomes too hard or govt backs out, falls over etc, those players and pathways remain, and can filter into the rest of the league ,by then it wont matter and growth in those other areas wouldve been started

You are replying to the most depressing and negative poster on league unlimited. Good luck.

 

[MugaB]

Rugby is No1 in the PI Nations and they already have a Super Rugby team along with there national teams.

But we think plonking a half arsed team split across 4 or 5 tiny islands will suddenly make our game No1?

That's the sort of arrogant attitude that we deride Rugby and Aussie Rules for having.

It's the same arrogant attitude behind the Vegas junket, "if th Yanks just watch one game, they will be hooked!!"

You're other point about creating an entire NRL team, just to capture locals from the Cairns District RL is ridiculous overkill.

It can capture them, but its more likely going to showcase our game as a whole more often in that region, moreso than the cowboys do on their own or the token souths game they hold there annually, personally i wanted to just see the PNG team being based there with a 8-4 split of home games between a fifo port moresby and the remaining 4 at cairns, but this concept of "pasifika" might tone down the "PNG" political look, as NRL gifting them a team, and the 4 at cairns would more likely end up a few trials, as the other islands would take on a few each instead... yes its arrogant, but if the govt is willing to pay for it, why not!

 

[MugaB]

You are replying to the most depressing and negative poster on league unlimited. Good luck.

Agreed

 

[Perth Red]

The Bipartisan support wouldn't last, and you'd need the funding for decades, not years. There's isn't really a way to lock in funding for that kind of time period either, and there're always get outs with this sort of thing.

People talk about the AFL wasting money on expansion, but what they spend on GWS or the Suns would be chump change compared to what would have to be thrown at a PNG NRL side just to keep them alive.

A club needs around $32mill a year to be viable. A PNG club would need more if they go with the crazy based in Australia model, extra security in PNG for visiting teams etc as infrastructure costs would be greater.

NRL tips in $17mill (though it expects an overall ROI from that through increased TV and corporates deals). Leaves $15mill a year min the club needs. Throw in the loss of revenue increase to the NRL of having a team of no real value to TV or Australian companies and theyd want to see something they can skim off the top. Your basically looking at needing at least $20mill+ forever, or at least our lifetimes, for it to be financially worthwhile and viable.

That's before we get into how they build a squad and keep them, how they cope with travelling every weekend, how you get TV to agree, what you need to invest in PNG systems to develop players.

Batsht crazy idea but part of me would love to see us have the balls to try it, that'd be a big break out moment out for a super conservative sport like RL.

 

[Perth Red]

They'd be better off seriously investing in the grassroots in those countries. How many PI players in the NRL actually came from the islands and through the PI systems rather than where born in Australia/NZ or came through the jnr systems here? I keep hearing unlimited talent but is there really? Surely you need kids to be playing Rl in these places and elite pathways and scouting systems in place if that is the primary reason for this pasifika nonsense? ARLC would be better getting govt funding for that. A Fiji and Tongan NSW cup sides, PNG2 in Qlnd cup, Elite well funded U16's U18's and U20's system in PNG. That would be a much better player production outcome, whihc seems to be the primary reason anyone is advocating for this team.

 

[Wb1234]

I know you're dumb, but Jesus.

A PNG NRL side would be totally reliant on government funding for a very long time to be sustainable.

He has provided an example where a change in government has lead to a backflip on funding for a sports project, thus showing what should be obvious everyone, but apparently isn't to many people, that a PNG side would be very risky because it'd only be a matter of time before priorities changed in government and their funding is cut.

Are you talking about tasmania or png

cause your standards are different for each

 

[Eion]

They'd be better off seriously investing in the grassroots in those countries. How many PI players in the NRL actually came from the islands and through the PI systems rather than where born in Australia/NZ or came through the jnr systems here? I keep hearing unlimited talent but is there really? Surely you need kids to be playing Rl in these places and elite pathways and scouting systems in place if that is the primary reason for this pasifika nonsense? ARLC would be better getting govt funding for that. A Fiji and Tongan NSW cup sides, PNG2 in Qlnd cup, Elite well funded U16's U18's and U20's system in PNG. That would be a much better player production outcome, whihc seems to be the primary reason anyone is advocating for this team.

Sure it would be heaps better, but this is nowhere near sexy enough for pollies who only gives a shit about the optics of a cool PNG/Pacific team. No way they give a bunch of bucks to help out without the fanfare

 

[Perth Red]

Sure it would be heaps better, but this is nowhere near sexy enough for pollies who only gives a shit about the optics of a cool PNG/Pacific team. No way they give a bunch of bucks to help out without the fanfare

True but needs to be the start point then in a few years NRL could be considered. Govt already funds Hunters and Silktails and other sports in that region through this program. Be far better to lobby for better funding for RL through this pogram than wasting it on some hairbrained NRL club.

https://www.pacificaussports.gov.au/

 

[The Great Dane]

Holy shit bro what a long winded reply over a bid that only has a realistic chance if they ARE getting govt funding, this isnt going ahead without govt funding, all your worries you pointed out, are only relevant if there is none at all... mate open your mind and use common sense regarding the bid, its not a bid that gets over the line without ALBO

Every reply to you has to be longwinded because you insert a bunch of false premises as assumptions into your arguments, and each of those false premises has to be addressed before you can even start addressing the broader point.

None of the problems I brought up are addressed by government funding, in fact many of them are side effects of the government funding, and the only person failing to use common sense here is you.

 

[The Great Dane]

You are replying to the most depressing and negative poster on league unlimited. Good luck.

Being realistic isn't being negative.