Prince's one weakness - a case for Kerr.

[_A_J_Gray_]

The simple fact is that both him and Kerr played behind the same forward pack, yet kerr's kicks looked much better(this is a fact that is undisputed on this forum).

For me thats the line which people should look at. They both played behind the same pack , Kieran only once and he managed to get longer kicks and more effective kicks.

We all love Princey on here but for everyone to blame a very unsatisfactory kicking game on the forwards is abserd. I mean you cant tell me that EVERY time he fails to clear the fullback or find good space its the forwards fault, I mean Head & Orford and that do it 4 times out of 5, and im sure that the play the ball only has somthing to do with it, the rest of it is there natural ability to find space and depth.

I agree with someone else who wrote our one weakness on the weekend was our kicking game. Hodgson put in a few good kicks and so did Marshall. Prince put in one good kick all afternoon (bomb 4 benjis try) for my mind and the rest were very below par

 

[Eddie.]

Ill admit Prince had an ordinary day with the boot on sunday, probably his worst of the season, overall i think its been decent, so does sheens, so does prince.

But i think on a whole people expect too much from the kicking game in general. fact is the last 2 games Prince has played in his the oppositions kicking game has certainly not been better than his.

I might have a look back at The Dogs game cause i remember Kerr hitting the fullback once or twice shock horror.

 

[B_Tiger]

it's harder to find space when you have to kick it higher. Kicking it higher comes as a result of needing to put more force on the ball because there is not time to run forward and put a solid kick on. Therefore with more time the fullbacks and wingers have more time to get to the ball. If you look at prince's kicking game, his natural kick is low and deep. However, most (if not all) the time he simply isn't given time. I don't blame the forwards, I just think smarter options should be taken on the 4th and 5th tackles. faster play the balls are needed because the ideal would be to have prince kicking the ball ahead of where the ball was played, instead he usually kicks it 5 or so metres behind the play the ball. Orford and most halfbacks on good sides get plenty of time to put in an effective kick because they have more time and space.

 

[simon says]

Its obvious that Prince does not have a decent boot.You blokes can make all the excuses you like,there have been plenty and nice work guys trying to explain it.......... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I dont care if Sheens,God,Allah,Thor,Zeus,Buddha,Asmodeus or anyone else says that Prince is kicking well.

I have watched him play all year and every game his kicking has been substandard.I counted one good kick on the weekend and that was a pinpoint bomb.The rest were garbage.........30 metres long and straight to the FB or winger.

Next theyll be telling me that Fitzy can tackle..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Eddie.]

I dont care if Sheens,God,Allah,Thor,Zeus,Buddha,Asmodeus or anyone else says that Prince is kicking well.

I have watched him play all year and every game his kicking has been substandard.:

Yep and Sheensy hasnt been watching him play all year mate, neither the Qld selectors who were impressed with his kicking game and said that got him the nod.
Sunday he was below par, but b tiger raises a point you simply ignore that often he doesnt have alot of time. no its not all the forwards fault but to say it has nothing to do with them is ridiculous.

 

[simon says]

I ignored it cos I reckon its BS.......you can still kick a ball a long way without kicking it that high.Plenty others of halves do it.To me Prince does not seem to have an arsenal of kicks at his disposal,just a drop punt(which goes very high and straight to the FB)and a bomb.

Even his selection of both have bewildered me at times.Why when we are 35 metres out does he goes for distance rather than putting it up?????They always get it on opur lie or so and get it back to about the twenty.....net gain 10 metres and no pressure exerted.

And on the forwards...there have been times when there has been pressure,Im not expecting a 40/20??????Every time he kicks it you know the result.....straight to the bloody FB who carts it back for 20 metres......net gain 10 metres for us.It doesnt matter whether there is pressure on him or not,the result is the same.Luckily we have been playing against sides that have the same problem.We all saw what happened against Easts when they had a good kicking game,they were gettng the ball back on their 40.

Anyone who cannot see this is watching another game,or I suspect is so mit liebe with Prince that they refuse to see his faults.

Cheers.

 

[Eddie.]

I.Luckily we have been playing against sides that have the same problem.We all saw what happened against Easts when they had a good kicking game,they were gettng the ball back on their 40.


Cheers.

I reckon i would have a good kicking game with Morley, Fitzgibbon, crokcer, flannery carting the ball forward for me.

Anyway i might have a look at some of the the tapes, and have a look at this net gain thing

ill get back to you. :twisted:

;-)

 

[simon says]

You wont like the answers you find....

;-) :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Vicious]

You wont like the answers you find....

;-) :lol: :lol: :lol:

If a second-rower runs across field like a crab on the 5th tackle,gets polaxed and plays the ball slowly allowing the defence to put pressure on poor old Scotty,what do you think the kick is going to end up like?Joey Johns would struggle to find the grass,don`t woorry about that!

 

[simon says]

f**k me,is there any chance you could make a post that doesnt concern the backrow...... :lol: :lol: :lol:

I heard ya the first 157 times about MON,I think we all get the picture....

;-) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Eddie.]

Righto Simon

I had a flick through our first 2 victories ( i dont keep losses) against Cronulla and the Cowboys

Stats on Princes long kicking game v Sharks

Long kicks 10

Long kicks into space 7/10

Average gross of long kicks 450/10
= 45

Average net of long kicks 370/10
= 37

Stats on Prince long kickiong game v Cowboys

Long kicks 8

Long Kicks into space 4/8

Average gross of long kicks 357/8
=44

Average Net of long kicks 250/8
= 31

Other points
* Kimmorley kicked 3 dead in goal, prince 1, 1 try each from kicking game
* Scottys bombs were particularly good, I included 3 of them in the long kicks against the cowboys. from about 35-40 meters out he goes for the high ball alot, and shock horror many were caught on the full, but caught on the goal line and dragged down 5 meters out, net gain 30-35 meters, except 1 where bowen made a long break
* prince had 3 kicks charged down overall, and 2 or 3 times was forced to pass due to sideays running on the 5th tackle ( twice by MON)

Overall in these 2 games Prince did find the fullback quite a few times, yet on most of these occasions the kicks were high enough to give the chase time to get down there and we enjoyed good field position in both games. he also turned around cronulla many times and his bombs were pin point against nq. his short game wasnt great in these two games.

As for the issue you raise that he simply doesnt have a big boot, well we kicked quite a few 50 on the fly when he had sufficient time, not as far as kimmorely but not bad.

i also distinctly remember a stat after out first bye where the sunday paper had a stats on kicking meters gained. We were in the top 5!, 4th i think.

Yes i know if a looked at the Dragons and parra games i would get a different story, but to say Prince simply doesnt cut the mustard as a kicker is wrong.

last point - they were 2 bloody average footy games, knock ons all over the place

Fire back Buddy :lol:

 

[joel caine number 1 fan]

we are winning most our games cause of our defense
u wanna take oneil out for some rookie that wont even be as half as good a defender u think they can make nearly 30 tackles a game and only miss around 1 tackle

and on prince oneil made the same impact during the dogs game yet kerr kicked well so why cant prince u can not blame everything on mark oneil its getting old

 

[Snide the Tiger]

Plus - on O'Neill - it was his pass in the first second of the match to Elford for our initial line break - that directly led to the Covell's first try!!

Also he was our top tackler against Parra by a long shot - racking up 28 tackles and missing just one!

I'd take him over the line-breaking Manu any day!!

 

[bonstonker]

buckets has been giving balls like that to elford all year.
yet it is not good enough for some.

he has created more opportunities than any of the backrowers used so far.he has also played a hand in more tries this year than our pack combined.
the work that he and satts do in defence is why we are so good defensively over past years.
he is a ball playing backrower who is doing his job but as usual he gets very little recognition from the fans.but as usual he is getting that recognition from the coach as usual.

he has produced more than the no.11 this year,and until he is consistently outplayed by the no.11 and bench players, he will be no.12 for a long time to come.

take notice of what sheens wants

We are trying to develop pride in our defence in the club, the younger ones coming through the club need to understand that.

buckets sets the bar very high and is the backbone of our defence,

 

[Tigerpete]

Just on The whole Kerr vs Prince issue with the kicking, its pretty silly to say that Kerr has a better kicking game than Prince when u base it on one game. Keep in mind that the BUlldogs probably concertrated their pressure on Marshall and Hodgson and probably thought Kerr's kicking game would be minimal. Where as when Prince plays, he's the chief kicker, its much easier to go after him than a rookie half back you know little about.

Also our kicking is the one weakness out of the weekend IMO. Simply because too often all season long and on the weekend we find a situation where Prince or whoever is faced with the defense in his face and left with little chance to get the kick away.

 

[bonstonker]

there was a good charge by satts then prince got caught with it and then put hodgo under pressure,that is pressure.he did it again after a skando settler.
then he decides to kick early in the count and kicks it on the full to the fullback.
this all falls directly to prince,no one else.
good kickers adapt to their surroundings,unfortunately prince has not been consistent in this area this year.

but he did show us what he is capable of in the panthers game.

 

[Tap Twist Snap]

Prince needs to perform this week. The QLD selectors are going down to Melbourne to watch him. I'm sure they are just looking for an excuse to put a Bronco in his place and with such small ingoal areas and a skinnier field his kicking game will need to be spot on. Hopefully he has a blinder and sets us up for a win.

 

[Vicious]

I`m not saying Prince has been kicking great,but it`s a well known fact that it`s 50/50 the kicker and the forward pack who are equally to blame when the long range kicking isn`t going well.
1.If the forward pack is doing their job,the team wouldn`t be caught inside their own quarter so often.
2.Somebody stated that Skando and Boof have frequently been the ones playing the ball on the 5th tackle.EXACTLY,it happens far too often.They not only take the 1st two hit ups,but more times than not they have to take two hit ups each in a set of 6 because the other forwards aren`t there to do it.
3.Don`t forget that Steve Price didn`t play against us in the Bulldogs.He`s the games No-1 charge down man and they replaced him with Hutch Maiava who is lazier than Willie Manu!

 

[Vicious]

I`m not saying Prince has been kicking great,but it`s a well known fact that it`s 50/50 the kicker and the forward pack who are equally to blame when the long range kicking isn`t going well.
1.If the forward pack is doing their job,the team wouldn`t be caught inside their own quarter so often.
2.Somebody stated that Skando and Boof have frequently been the ones playing the ball on the 5th tackle.EXACTLY,it happens far too often.They not only take the 1st two hit ups,but more times than not they have to take two hit ups each in a set of 6 because the other forwards aren`t there to do it.
3.Don`t forget that Steve Price didn`t play against us in the Bulldogs game.He`s the games No-1 charge down man and they replaced him with Hutch Maiava who is lazier than Willie Manu!

 

[bonstonker]

that's why we have f**king props. :roll:

and that is why we have now won 3 in a row.
before we had props working we had gibbs who was not doing his share of the hard work.3 hit ups and 8 hit ups is not nrl standard.
patto we all know his hit up talent.

now we have 3 nrl props and guess what,3 f**king wins in a row.