What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

QLD doesn't need another team

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,501
What’s funny is when you ask Perth fans to justify it over nz2 or Brisbane 3 and they go all quiet and can’t

Essentially they want a Perth team in because one day in the future they might benefit the code whilst clubs that can benefit code now should miss out


sure if the code goes to 24 teams there’s a place like a filler club like Perth

It is not an either/or. Sometimes you just have to take a longer term view on things. Also there aren’t many sides that would benefit the code now or in the future - you have picked perhaps two of the three.

Also there isn’t a chance in hell (well not much chance) we are getting to 24 teams. We are not America.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
23,762
It is not an either/or. Sometimes you just have to take a longer term view on things. Also there aren’t many sides that would benefit the code now or in the future - you have picked perhaps two of the three.

Also there isn’t a chance in hell (well not much chance) we are getting to 24 teams. We are not America.
It is either or

they aren’t adding multiple teams at once

they should admit the best bid each time
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
23,762
Messages
13,078
No one is arguing that those clubs or small clubs shouldn't be in the NRL though, so you don't have a point.

You're arguing that small markets like Townsville, Canberra, Sutherland and Northern Beaches should be in the NRL, but Christchurch shouldn't because it's smaller than Perth. That's a hypocritical position no matter how you spin it.
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,702
What’s funny is when you ask Perth fans to justify it over nz2 or Brisbane 3 and they go all quiet and can’t

Essentially they want a Perth team in because one day in the future they might benefit the code whilst clubs that can benefit code now should miss out

sure if the code goes to 24 teams there’s a place like a filler club like Perth
It’s easy to justify- large, growing population, favourable migration trends, captures a niche in a new market, gets advertisers seen across the continent and internationally in NZ and can play in favourable time slots for tv. An Australian market of a projected 3.5 million people is an easy sell.

It’ll require work, but expansion can’t just be about getting an immediate sugar hit, there has to be long term planning involved too.
 
Messages
13,078
These are all red herrings. All you have to ask yourself is this: has it worked for them or not. Weighing up all the positives and all of the negatives of that decision and regardless of the circumstances in which that decision came about - have they benefited from it or have they not.

Now I would not think there would be anybody around (heck you might be the first I have come across) who doesn’t think that them going to new markets hasn’t benefited them

Their model requires some clubs to receive more funding than others. Without it there wouldn't be a Sydney Swans, Brisbane Lions, GWS Giants and Gold Coast Suns.

The ARLC will never adopt AwFuL's variable funding system. If they did then you might have a point. Saying the NRL should expand into new markets because AwFuL did so would be like telling an Australian it's safe to smuggle drugs into Indonesia because Australia doesn't have the death penalty.

I think they would be paying an a fair bit more yes. I think you’d be daft to say otherwise at this point.

What's daft is speculating about something you don't know.

Can you tell me how much money they're providing due to having teams in Brisbane or Perth?

Or are you assuming they're paying money for teams in Brisbane and Perth and telling me I'm daft for asking you to provide evidence?

Media analyst Colin Smith said the NRL should forget about Adelaide and Perth. He's worked with AwFuL and the NRL on broadcast deals. He also believes in Brisbane 3, New Zealand 2 and a Port Moresby team.

Having a presence in a market is worth something. Having no presence in a market is worth nothing.

Colin Smith doesn't agree with you. He's more qualified than anyone on here.
 
Messages
13,078
What’s funny is when you ask Perth fans to justify it over nz2 or Brisbane 3 and they go all quiet and can’t

Essentially they want a Perth team in because one day in the future they might benefit the code whilst clubs that can benefit code now should miss out

sure if the code goes to 24 teams there’s a place like a filler club like Perth
My rebuttal to those people is if they think Perth is so important then they should send their club over there. It's hypocritical for people who support teams from regions with less than 300k people to argue that we should choose Perth over Christchurch due to the former having a bigger population. If their club was punted between 1998-2000 based on population size they would have screamed bloody murder, but because they're now safe they think they can be hypocritical.

Perth having 2m people doesn't mean shit when there's not enough active RL supporters amongst them to prop up an NRL team.
 
Messages
13,078
They wanted a Sydney club either way, they entertained starting a new one - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/125641831

Key quote:

They knew they could admit a South Australian team easily into the VFL/AFL, however they could see the future potential of the Sydney market for Aussie Rules and wanted a team there for that reason.
Didn't the SANFL stand in the way of Adelaide fielding a team in the VFL?
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
23,762
My rebuttal to those people is if they think Perth is so important then they should send their club over there. It's hypocritical for people who support teams from regions with less than 300k people to argue that we should choose Perth over Christchurch due to the former having a bigger population. If their club was punted between 1998-2000 based on population size they would have screamed bloody murder, but because they're now safe they think they can be hypocritical.

Perth having 2m people doesn't mean shit when there's not enough active RL supporters amongst them to prop up an NRL team.
Bingo

let’s look at Melbourne

they would be lucky to have 70k active fans in Victoria

it’s a tiny nieche

Perth could have 4 million people league would still be tiny
 
Last edited:

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
23,762
It’s easy to justify- large, growing population, favourable migration trends, captures a niche in a new market, gets advertisers seen across the continent and internationally in NZ and can play in favourable time slots for tv. An Australian market of a projected 3.5 million people is an easy sell.

It’ll require work, but expansion can’t just be about getting an immediate sugar hit, there has to be long term planning involved too.
It’s impossible to justify over Christchurch or Brisbane 3
 
Messages
13,078
They’re the ones who applied for the licence.
I found this on the Crows' site.

On May 21 1986, the SANFL formed a company, Adelaide Football Club Incorporated, with all issued shares owned by the league. The stalemate continued, however, even after expansion clubs from Western Australia and Queensland (West Coast and Brisbane Bears) joined the VFL in 1987. There also was strong public sentiment against joining a national competition, with concerns about the impact on the SANFL competition.

Fast forward to 1990 and the SANFL continued to resist before it was suddenly stuck in a bitter fight with one of its own clubs and then under pressure from the AFL to agree to some conditions it had wanted to avoid, including a $4 million licence fee.


But once the Head Licence agreement was signed in October, immediate action was required to build a club and team ready to play as a team in three months.


SANFL and VFL couldn't come to an agreement before 1991.
 
Messages
13,078
Bingo

let’s look at Melbourne

they would be lucky to have 70k active fans in Victoria

it’s a tiny nieche

Perth could have 4 million people league would still be tiny
They've got about 16-23k fans who actively attend matches and another 33k who watch them on 9Gem. That's with the morelldt dominant sports team in the country over the last 25 years. God help them if they ever become strugglers.

The overall average for NRL games broadcast in Melbourne draw just 12k.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
66,234
These are all red herrings. All you have to ask yourself is this: has it worked for them or not. Weighing up all the positives and all of the negatives of that decision and regardless of the circumstances in which that decision came about - have they benefited from it or have they not.

Now I would not think there would be anybody around (heck you might be the first I have come across) who doesn’t think that them going to new markets hasn’t benefited them




I think they would be paying an a fair bit more yes. I think you’d be daft to say otherwise at this point.

Having a presence in a market is worth something. Having no presence in a market is worth nothing.
$700 mill revenue v $1bill revenue is all the evidence I need as to why the nrl need to be a proper 20 team national competition.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
66,234
It’s impossible to justify over Christchurch or Brisbane 3
2mill people+ and tipped to hit 3.5mill
highest income and spare cash in the country
major corproates in the city
76 year RL history
Supportive govt
3500 jnr rl players
new market with new customers
takes the fight to union and afl
good time slot for new tv game
doesnt compete for sponsors and fans with existing nrl clubs
 
Messages
13,078
Northern exposure: Perth Origin a success but Brisbane ripe for growth
By Roy Masters
June 23, 2019 — 8.00pm


The Perth Origin match is a guaranteed financial success but any plans to base an NRL team in the Western Australian capital would involve a significant contribution from the state’s richest man, mining magnate Andrew ‘‘Twiggy’’ Forrest, to supplement any commitment from the WA government.

"Unless Twiggy finds another $200m, a second Brisbane team is ahead of Perth," was the observation of one ARL commissioner.

Forrest is a rugby union man and owns the now-defunct former Super Rugby team, the Western Force, as well as underwriting a proposed Global Rapid Rugby competition involving teams from Japan, Fiji, Hong Kong and Samoa.

Significantly, Papua New Guinea is not part of his football plans but the country is a mecca for miners, leading Colin Smith, director of Global Media and Sports, to say, "There is actually a good argument for Twiggy to fund a NRL team, not in Perth but Port Moresby. Rugby league is the only sport of substance in PNG and would have massive appeal. The PNG Hunters won the 2017 Queensland Cup."

Smith, who has advised Forrest, as well as the NRL, AFL, FFA and RUPA, in broadcast deals, has been a long-term advocate of a second Brisbane team.

However, Channel Nine and Foxtel have made it clear they do not want an 18-team competition, where the favourites would be Perth/Port Moresby to join an additional Brisbane team. Apart from the scheduling problems of a ninth game – the existing 6pm Friday and 2pm Sunday times are unpopular with clubs and viewers – Foxtel is facing severe financial challenges and the audience of free-to-air TV is contracting.

TV’s "halo" effect, where viewers stay with Nine – owners of this masthead – after an NRL game has ended, is being undermined by OTT providers such as Netflix.

But rugby league’s share of the diminishing FTA audience is increasing and NRL metrics around dead time in games and the percentage of time the ball is in play are all on the rise.

So, a 17th team in a popular market could be attractive compromise to broadcasters and more acceptable to existing NRL clubs who fear a reduction in their share of the TV revenue pie, as well as the challenge of finding another 60 capable players for two additional teams.

"Brisbane is currently underserved by the NRL," Smith says. "A second Brisbane team makes sense, compared to an 18-team competition, which is a completely different set of analysis. Significantly, broadcasters, both Channel Nine and Fox Sports, want another NRL team in Brisbane.

"Brisbanites/Queenslander NRL fans are very parochial, especially to the Maroons and Queensland clubs.

"NRL TV viewership in Queensland is Broncos No.1, then the Cowboys, then the Storm (via their Queensland roots), then the Titans, ahead of any Sydney team." Smith anticipates broadcast revenue despite a shrinking FTA market and pay TV’s challenges, could rise by up to 20% when the current deal concludes at the end of the 2022 season.

"Another NRL Brisbane team will drive ticketing, merchandising, sponsorship and critically - in a more challenged broadcast environment — a major upsurge for media rights, including a plus 15-20 per cent growth,’’ he said.

"The commercial return upside for another Brisbane team is very significant. It means that each week in Brisbane there will be a live NRL game for fans to attend. Their attendances will be four to five times greater than the average attendances in Sydney." However, the new team must be home grown and not transplanted.

"It must have a direct connection to Brisbane or be a part of a community," he said. "It must not be a relocated team from Sydney. That will definitely be rejected in Queensland.

"Having a fourth Queensland NRL team can also be catalyst for NRL growth in regional Queensland heartland in markets with local games in Cairns, Rockhampton, Toowoomba, Maroochydore etc just like AFL plays in Ballarat, Launceston, Hobart, Darwin and Cairns. In 2019, there are zero NRL games in regional Queensland which is dumb."

Redcliffe, to the north of Brisbane, with its young family demographic and existing strong club culture exemplified by the Dolphins, is the popular candidate.

ARLC chair Peter Beattie would not be drawn on the second Brisbane team/Perth issue.
"The biggest challenge facing us is getting the next media deal right and part of that is getting the best footprint for the game," he said.

 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
23,762
2mill people+ and tipped to hit 3.5mill
highest income and spare cash in the country
major corproates in the city
76 year RL history
Supportive govt
3500 jnr rl players
new market with new customers
takes the fight to union and afl
good time slot for new tv game
doesnt compete for sponsors and fans with existing nrl clubs
As you’ve said weagles and dockers are massive
 

Latest posts

Top