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RABK

Referee
Messages
20,694
Management.

This fall from grace has been a long time coming, probally since our 2002 semi loss to the roosters. We have had 4 australian reps leave our team in the past two seasons, what has been done to fill the void? Has anyone of note been bought? Has a young bloke been giving a decent oppurtunity to cement a spot? No. Us fans have been predicting a sharp fall if something wasn't done to stop the exodus of our top line players. Nothing was done, and hence we are seeing a football side possible on the verge of a crisis. Our team on paper ranks below 13 other sides and it was only two years ago that we had 3 or 4 more top quality players then any other side. We were once a club that players wanted to play at but now it would be in my beleive that we are a joke to most other players and clubs.

Coach.

We went from a Warren ryan built team of champions to a joke. A herd of headless chooks. Our defense was never the best but still was ranked about 8th, this was made up by the fact our star studded line up was capable of putting on 40 against even the best defense. The defense we've seen over the past 2 seasons has been dreadful, and hagan is responsible. Stuart turned the roosters from a side that leaked 23 points a game in 2001 to a side that now averages 15 points a game against them. He did this with no major personal changes so why has our defense fallen so much since hagan took the reigns. Our attack has gone from the most feared, well structured attack seen in the nrl to the warrilla gorilla's standard. Hagan had ryan's team to work with in 2001, but since then EVERY single facet of our game has gone downhill very steeply. A team that would always finish on plus 250 on points for and against to a team that now finishes on -100 ponts for and against. Our junior ranks were once full of future stars but you are hard pressed finding a name of any note now.

Players.

What is with the shirt grabbing, hair pulling tackles? We were once the team of steel, the team wether you won, lost or drew you always went home with a stiff and sore team. We are a bunch of powderpuffs now. EVERY tackle or run someone go's down injured. What happened to the days of the Chief, Muir and Glanville etc. These players would always get up injured and play on, they just didnt want to let there team mates down. They use to know john's play like it was drilled into them from the age of 5. Johns would make a half break, throw an inside pass without looking knowing that a player would be there to take the pass. Now he'll throw a pass to a bloke who just drops it cold, or doesn't even know it was coming.


I fear we will go what manly went through. From been the comps premier side to a side that is content with 5 wins a year and rarely finishes higher then 12th. I guess manly looks like coming good after 6 aweful years, six years is a long wait to see the knights become even a smidget of what we once were.

In no means am i throwing in the towel for this season, we were missing 9 players but 2 years down the track if something isn't done we will be hoping the off season never ends.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,005
Mal Reilly built the side that Warren Ryan inherited that Michael Hagan has destroyed...
 

Ben

Bench
Messages
2,551
ill give hagan the rest of this year to prove his worth, if he fails, i'd ive him the sack
 
Messages
4,482
Fair analysis RABK. I find it pretty hard to argue with most of the points that you have raised, particularly your concerns with our defensive style. I have had the same concerns for quite a while... remember that even in '01 when we won the comp we conceded a sh!tload of points.

As for Hagan, I'd agree with Ben. Give him this year, and if things don't improve, flick him.
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
47,627
Warren Ryan may not have been a hit with the players, but he made astute buys and he forced out the dead-wood players who, though skilled, never trained. Guys like Owen Craigie, if I remember correctly, were forced out during the Ryan administration.

I've been saying it for a while, but Hagan is better suited to a media role than to coaching. He has no fire and no conviction.
 

B.L.L.G

Retired
Messages
1,447
HAGAN has NO fire and conviction?

Or THE PLAYERS have no fire and conviction?

It's only been round one and yes, we're looking for someone to blaim for our shoddy slipshode preformance.

I read a few days ago which coaches were safe and which ones weren't.

And two coaches were in the middle bracket Hagan and some one else.

Of cause all the top 8 teams coaches were safe and all the crappy coaches were in jepody.

Our comp has been divided into this position because they failed to bring in the draft.
It was the only answer.

Our preformance yesterday was tiresome.

What, because Johns was there did we expect to just blow them off the park because his name appeared?

I don't think Johns is up to the quickness any more.

Keep an eye on Johns and Brad Thorn this year.

Johns SHOULD have went to Ingland and collected his pay day.

Our team is looking tired with the likes of Matt Gidley and Johns and Hughes.

Teams have worked us out.

Our style needs adjusting.

Don't blaim Michael Hagan either.

Blaim the players.

If you want my honost opinion....We need some BULLDOG about us.
You know....nitty gritty........we're not aggressive enough and other teams don't fear us.

Take Parsons for example.
If you say Parsons name to me, automaticlly i think of a gentle giant big cuddley bear.

Same as B.K. and O'davis as an example............They weren't mean enough........We need more Josh perry aggression.

Look at Justin Hodges.
He's a mean prick and i fear him.

Were too, too COTTON. Too LITE
If a team says where are we playing next week and the answer is Marathon they go "Oh they're gentle. We don't fear Newcastle. I don't mind playing there."

Teams don't fear us.

And i honostly believe that Johns writing for the papers effects his game.
Tallis went down the same road writing for papers.
And all this happy go lucky footy show comedy, every bodies a comedian sh*t we're not concentrating.

They haven't got their minds on the job and on friday night with the interview with Johnsy he admitted that he was ready to sign with union and that footy had become repetitious for him with the same training and same game week in week out.

So i question if his heart is really in it because he looked like an old man the other day.
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
47,627
HAGAN has NO fire and conviction?

Or THE PLAYERS have no fire and conviction?

It's a case of both. There's no doubting our players lack the backbone and committment that saw them win premierships in years gone by. That said, Hagan isn't the kind of coach that inspires much in his players. It's well documented that he's very much a member of the 'old boys club', and has an inability to make the tough decisions. Josh Perry, for example, was absolute shit last year- and yet still managed to retain his top spot. Even running an enthusiastic Premier League callup would have been more effective than some of the crap Perry dished up last season.

We need a coach who is capable of making the tough decisions, and of putting fire into the bellies of his players. We need a management who can go out and secure some genuine talent for a side that is fast losing its lustre. Guys like Gidley, Perry, and Hughes should have been looked at well before we decided not to renew Robbie O'Davis' contact. The three of them put together don't equal O'Davis' passion for the club. Mark my words, he'd have stood up a lot better than most of our 'team' did in yesterday's debacle. I use the word team loosely, because I don't think they talked to one another all game. Except maybe at halftime, to discuss which Melbourne pub has the best beer prices. Not that it'd matter, since a large chunk of them are overpaid.

Hopefully the return of Kidley, Buderus, Seage, and Newton will fire the team up a bit. I don't mind seeing the side beaten convincingly, but I do mind when they don't even have any determination. Even Johns, notorious for his bad temper, seemed pretty damn calm as the Storm racked up a New Zealand cricket score against us.

If Hagan can't motivate the team, and can't drop the dead wood like Witt and Hughes, then maybe somebody else should step in and do it for him.
 

B.L.L.G

Retired
Messages
1,447
With all that said then, let's go after Danny Maguire then.

We're in BIG trouble and we need some answers and some mental tougness about us
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
47,627
With all that said then, let's go after Danny Maguire then.

I'd say 'wait until we can sign two marquee players outside the salary cap with sponsors' money', but we're still without a major sponsor as well.

Yeah, we've got top notch management.
 

Parki

Bench
Messages
3,400
just on the perry note... I tend to agree with you guys, but I think that he shouldnt be a certainty to get his spot back in 10 weeks.... FFS the idiot did it to himself, what breaking his hand punching greg birds head, he needs to take a good look at himself and his position in the team with stupid things like that

Im expecting a big year from Josh, or else he should be sent off somewhere else where he can ruin other teams with idiotic penalties and pointless suspensions/injuries
 

Rusty

Juniors
Messages
1,676
I always wonder why Newcastle settle for buying average players.Why cant we spend money on buying players that are actually worthwhile.
 

reladith

Juniors
Messages
252
The Knights are sh&t.

I look at the team now compared to the one that went around 3-4 years ago and i cringe at the discrepency in talent.

In the past we had players like McDougall, Tahu and Albert fighting for wing berths. Now we have average players like Quinn, Carmont and Hall. We have no finishers at all.

Gidley is dead wood. He will never play rep football again. He is too slow and doesnt have a player with Tahu's flair to finish off his movements. Hughes seems to be well past his best also. I would prefer to see him at left centre than at fullback. He is safe but nothing else.

These days your fullback, hooker and half handle the ball more than anyone in a team so they have to be the most skilled or creative with the ball in there hands. I think Hughes is well past that. I think he has a lot to offer in the centres though. If I remember correctly, his defence used to be the feature of his game.

Witt at the moment is a terrible player. If Gidley is unavailable next week i would put Mullen in at 5/8. I really dont think that Witt is good enough.

Even if Gidley does play, his form is erratic, and with Johns confidence apparently at an alltime low with him playing second reciever, i am not expecting big things early in the season for our halves.

Our props are terrible. Woolnough is soft, Perry is a nutcase and White is too inexperienced. Kennedy is too inconsistent. Maybe these players need time to warm to playing at this level. If thats the case, fine. But look at every good teams foward pack and they atleast have one player with enormous experience filling a prop spot.... we have none.

Buderus will be fine when he comes back providing space for his backs. Quigley is a good first grader and nothing more. He is an honest toiler.

Simpson is class and Abraham is the same. Renayldson is a toiler and never going to be a damaging foward in the Kennedy mould. That role will fall to Snowden, but he is a few years off yet. Tanner is also a toiler and the less said about Price and co the better!

The fact is our team is average compared to the rest. We didnt play crap yesterday, its just that we are not good enough. I dont see the Knights making the eight this year because injuries and lack of depth will cruel us yet again.

I look at teams on paper and see that Cronulla and Manly have overtaken us in that department, and we have overtaken no one.

In 2001 we had to come back from a mass exodus, but we had quality juniors like Tahu, Simpson and Buderus coming through. We dont have that this year.

I also think Hagan is an average coach. Really top bloke, but an average coach. The basics of a game of football is the kick chase, look at ours yesterday from the outset, it was terrible!

I think the success he had was built on the back of others previous work, and an outstanding squad of players available to him.

I lay alot of blame on recruitment. Tell me, how can we lose players like Anthony Tupou and say that our junior system is fine?

Who is in charge of recruitment?

We need 2 quality outside backs, a quality prop and some quality cover in the back row. We are skinny on the fringes and skinny up front.

As for coaching, we need a tactical coach in the Stuart and Warren ryan mould, merged with a hard head like Mal Reilly. What is Matthew Johns doing in the next few years? He seems to be tactically cluey.

We have to face facts. The players are only playing as well as they can. Dont blame them. Blame the coaching staff and the personal in charge of recruitment. we are going to see some dark day in the next few season, this is just the dawn of it.
 

Rusty

Juniors
Messages
1,676
Great post Reladith I completely agree with you.I think our forward pack is soft compared to other teams and for this our team will struggle this year. It doesnt matter how good Joey is he wont make a difference if they cant get him up to the other end of the park.
 

Johns Magic

Referee
Messages
21,654
I honestly think what lost us the game yesterday was the forwards not laying the platform. Johns and the backs had no space or roll-on to do anything. We have no damaging ball-runners in the forwards whatsoever. All the top sides have at least 2-3 forwards who get 100+ metres every game. Yesterday our top metre gainer in the forwards was Woolnough with 83 metres. Compare that to the successful teams such as Canterbury(Price, O'Meley, Mason, Asotasi, Ryan), the Roosters(Morley, Fitzgibbon, Cayless), Penrith(Clinton, Ross, Lang, Puletua, Gulavao), Brisbane(Webcke, Civoniceva, Tallis, Parker) and St. George(Ryles, Bailey, Thompson) and we look very bad.

Perry would probably fill the role the best of all the players in the squad, which is pitiful. Simpson is very capable of fitting the mould, but he has been doing too much tackling to concentrate on hitting it up. If I was Michael Hagan, I'd tell Abraham, Reynoldson and Quigley to concentrate on making the majority of the tackles, and have Simpson be the metre-gainer with Woolnough.

Losing Kennedy will prove to be a big mistake in my opinion, as will missing out on Webb.

At the end of this season, I say the Knights should use Hughes' and others' money to go all out for Willie Mason. He is the exact type of player we need.
 

Kaz

junior
Messages
6,376
Johns Magic said:
At the end of this season, I say the Knights should use Hughes' and others' money to go all out for Willie Mason. He is the exact type of player we need.

Good Luck. :lol:

The Knights will have to get rid of quite a few players to afford him.
 

Johns Magic

Referee
Messages
21,654
Kaz said:
Johns Magic said:
At the end of this season, I say the Knights should use Hughes' and others' money to go all out for Willie Mason. He is the exact type of player we need.

Good Luck. :lol:

The Knights will have to get rid of quite a few players to afford him.

You'd be surprised at the amount of money Hughes is on. He was the NSW fullback when we re-signed him last. Then there's Tilse's money, Price's money(reportedly on around 100k) and Tanner's money.

More than 300k there.
 

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