R15 vs Sydney Roosters

[Aliceinwonderland]

You see what you want to see.

I see a guy who I think is doing a pretty decent job in a side currently coming first.

Don't need your go to stats.

As I've said many times on this forum.....Stats don't tell the whole story. What you see (with your eyes) does.

Stats can also be twisted to tell you lies.

Kenny is doing a fine job within the structure.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

We have done that for a season or 2. Billy Slater knew exactly what was coming due to how predictable Penrith are and as a result the halves for NSW.

I think we looked way better on the weekend. A few offloads. A few eyes up tries

Kenny seems to make passing errors under fatigue. So not sure we have got the combo right yet

I don’t recall us doing that for two seasons. I would love to see if there is an average length of pass stat for dummy half; not as some way of being able to demonstrate that one hooker is better than the other, but as a way of testing my thesis about game plan. I definitely don’t remember Kiks and Martin heading back underneath very much last year; their carries were more ‘punch hole in right; quick shit to do same on left’.

And on the comment of improving on a team coming first, it is a question of evolution rather than revolution.
- Our execution has improved since the beginning of the season: Check (from eye test)
- Different game plan to what we have had before: Check (attack the middle with smaller backrowers and the halves seemingly running more than before).
- Locking up key talent for longer term: Check.

And Kenny does make errors; all hookers do. I have seen Api throw some shockers this year (albeit less frequently (at the margin) than Kenny) but the same people bagging Kenny are the same people bagging out Edwards a few ago; telling us we couldn’t win with him at the back. And I see a similar work ethic for Mitch, and a similar trajectory he is on (which is exponential improvement once he gains the confidence required to be a quality spine player).

 

[Iamback]

I don’t recall us doing that for two seasons. I would love to see if there is an average length of pass stat for dummy half; not as some way of being able to demonstrate that one hooker is better than the other, but as a way of testing my thesis about game plan. I definitely don’t remember Kiks and Martin heading back underneath very much last year; their carries were more ‘punch hole in right; quick shit to do same on left’.

And on the comment of improving on a team coming first, it is a question of evolution rather than revolution.
- Our execution has improved since the beginning of the season: Check (from eye test)
- Different game plan to what we have had before: Check (attack the middle with smaller backrowers and the halves seemingly running more than before).
- Locking up key talent for longer term: Check.

And Kenny does make errors; all hookers do. I have seen Api throw some shockers this year (albeit less frequently (at the margin) than Kenny) but the same people bagging Kenny are the same people bagging out Edwards a few ago; telling us we couldn’t win with him at the back. And I see a similar work ethic for Mitch, and a similar trajectory he is on (which is exponential improvement once he gains the confidence required to be a quality spine player).

The crabbing across field for the halves to catch some lazy defenders inside. Into a quick play the ball has been the basis of the attack for a while. Particularly on the right Cleary will find Edwards who straightens up and finds Crichton.

Bulldogs do similar a style no doubt brought across with Ciraldo

Last year's Origin series QLD was playing for it, knowing that NSW with a Penrith dominated attack was going to play the same style.

As for the attack, It is evolving as part of the side as a whole. Very rarely are we seeing games where we have the 1 player carve up.

Take the Roosters at home. Luai was very good but still Peachey had the same amount of try assists and in total 6 players had assists.

Last week we scored 4 tries. 4 different guys had assists.

Similar story on Sat night. What we have picked up more is offloading more which gives halves more time.

On Edwards - 2019 he was dropped. 2020 he started to improve.

The club signed Staines to Fullback money as cover because they too had doubts over him.

That same year 2019. Kenny was our hooker and the club saw fit to get someone else in.

If Kenny was clear the answer then Luke wouldn't be in the 17. A hooker on the bench messes with rotations. To be fair though Luke has been ordinary so there hasn't been that pressure to get minutes off him

So the club and fans rightfully have doubts and are waiting for the steep incline. At 25 there is still time for some improvement how much is what we wait to see

 

[ColdWetPanther]

The crabbing across field for the halves to catch some lazy defenders inside. Into a quick play the ball has been the basis of the attack for a while. Particularly on the right Cleary will find Edwards who straightens up and finds Crichton.

Bulldogs do similar a style no doubt brought across with Ciraldo

Last year's Origin series QLD was playing for it, knowing that NSW with a Penrith dominated attack was going to play the same style.

As for the attack, It is evolving as part of the side as a whole. Very rarely are we seeing games where we have the 1 player carve up.

Take the Roosters at home. Luai was very good but still Peachey had the same amount of try assists and in total 6 players had assists.

Last week we scored 4 tries. 4 different guys had assists.

Similar story on Sat night. What we have picked up more is offloading more which gives halves more time.

On Edwards - 2019 he was dropped. 2020 he started to improve.

The club signed Staines to Fullback money as cover because they too had doubts over him.

That same year 2019. Kenny was our hooker and the club saw fit to get someone else in.

If Kenny was clear the answer then Luke wouldn't be in the 17. A hooker on the bench messes with rotations. To be fair though Luke has been ordinary so there hasn't been that pressure to get minutes off him

So the club and fans rightfully have doubts and are waiting for the steep incline. At 25 there is still time for some improvement how much is what we wait to see

Two things;
- try assists!! C’mon man, really. The Blocka Roach of stats.
- we can afford to play Luke in the game at small minutes because Kenny is effective in our middle rotation.

 

[The Realist]

I am going to admit that I am warming a little to Mitch. I think he is getting better as the season progresses. He will never be a Rep quality hooker, all he needs to be is solid in defence and competent in attack. I think he is just about there.

Luke on the other hand isn't playing anywhere near well enough to put even the slightest pressure on Kenny.

 

[The yak]

I am going to admit that I am warming a little to Mitch. I think he is getting better as the season progresses. He will never be a Rep quality hooker, all he needs to be is solid in defence and competent in attack. I think he is just about there.

Luke on the other hand isn't playing anywhere near well enough to put even the slightest pressure on Kenny.

Fair assessment. His passes have improved from dummy half, but like others have said they can be a bit sloppy when he gets tired.
Luke has been disappointing. Which is not a good thing.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Luke is being 'nurtured' along because of his injury riddled past.

Because Kenny is playing so well, Ivan has got this luxury. It allows Luke to slowly warm to 1st grade.

 

[WestyLife]

Yet the on field guys missed it, Which likely means it is play on elsewhere on the field.

Seems another case of different rules depending on where the player is

That is true with many rules. There's no offside in goal. You can apply downward pressure in a way that's a try in goal but a knock on in the field of play etc.

 

[soc123_au]

Luke is being 'nurtured' along because of his injury riddled past.

Because Kenny is playing so well, Ivan has got this luxury. It allows Luke to slowly warm to 1st grade.

At his age a slow burn isn't really viable. If he is going to make it he needs to start showing something very soon.

 

[Girds89]

Numbers seem to match up with the eye test.

Billy Walters is the only regular hooker that Kenny beats in most categories

Even Phoenix Crossland who is new to hooker and 3rd choice at Newcastle has a better tackle %.

Hahah tdm

I don't care what stats you look at Kenny 3 times the defender croasland is haha.

He's easily one of the best defensive 9s in the comp if not the best.

A lot of his missed tackles go down as a miss cause he runs up makes massive first contact and stops a prop dead in his tracks and yeo or leota or fish will come in and finish the job.

Kennys one of the best pound for pound hitters in the Comp. Capable of belting blokes with 20kgs on him.

And his line speed at 9 is first class..he regularly our first bloke up making first contact.. he leads the line speed and makes first contact and tries to belt blokes...

We have the best defensive in the comp.... when the last time mitch missed a tackle which lead to a break or try??

He selects when to really try put on a big shot and of he bounces off atleast it's with a team buried in there end and surrounded by other players.

Stats mean nothing when you look at things as a collective..

Commentators and most fans would acknowledge mitch is probs the best defensive 9 in the comp yet your trying to compare him to crossland haha

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Hahah tdm

I don't care what stats you look at Kenny 3 times the defender croasland is haha.

He's easily one of the best defensive 9s in the comp if not the best.

A lot of his missed tackles go down as a miss cause he runs up makes massive first contact and stops a prop dead in his tracks and yeo or leota or fish will come in and finish the job.

Kennys one of the best pound for pound hitters in the Comp. Capable of belting blokes with 20kgs on him.

And his line speed at 9 is first class..he regularly our first bloke up making first contact.. he leads the line speed and makes first contact and tries to belt blokes...

We have the best defensive in the comp.... when the last time mitch missed a tackle which lead to a break or try??

He selects when to really try put on a big shot and of he bounces off atleast it's with a team buried in there end and surrounded by other players.

Stats mean nothing when you look at things as a collective..

Commentators and most fans would acknowledge mitch is probs the best defensive 9 in the comp yet your trying to compare him to crossland haha

I agree.

Some like Iamback let player bias get in the way of good judgement.

Kenny and Suniva players within 1st grade that have improved the most.

I can see a place being found for Suniva either at centre or wing for 24....with Critta leaving.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

At his age a slow burn isn't really viable. If he is going to make it he needs to start showing something very soon.

Maybe. I think perhaps his hamstrings have been an issue recently too. judging by the extra warm up on the sideline on Saturday night.

 

[Iamback]

That is true with many rules. There's no offside in goal. You can apply downward pressure in a way that's a try in goal but a knock on in the field of play etc.

Not only that 7 tackles for a knock on. That my biggest gripe.

The rule in goal should be the same on halfway

 

[Iamback]

Hahah tdm

I don't care what stats you look at Kenny 3 times the defender croasland is haha.

He's easily one of the best defensive 9s in the comp if not the best.

A lot of his missed tackles go down as a miss cause he runs up makes massive first contact and stops a prop dead in his tracks and yeo or leota or fish will come in and finish the job.

Kennys one of the best pound for pound hitters in the Comp. Capable of belting blokes with 20kgs on him.

And his line speed at 9 is first class..he regularly our first bloke up making first contact.. he leads the line speed and makes first contact and tries to belt blokes...

We have the best defensive in the comp.... when the last time mitch missed a tackle which lead to a break or try??

He selects when to really try put on a big shot and of he bounces off atleast it's with a team buried in there end and surrounded by other players.

Stats mean nothing when you look at things as a collective..

Commentators and most fans would acknowledge mitch is probs the best defensive 9 in the comp yet your trying to compare him to crossland haha

To answer your question. Fox sports has him down with 2 try causes which sits not the best for hookers but again prop minutes make it not a straight forward

Kenny as a running forward and Kenny as a hooker is often mixed up though

What hooker doesn't belt guys with 20 kgs on them?

That is with defending in the middle.

My point with Crossland was a fringe small half is doing a job at hooker without being relatively good

 

[Chins get the wins]

Luke is being 'nurtured' along because of his injury riddled past.

Because Kenny is playing so well, Ivan has got this luxury. It allows Luke to slowly warm to 1st grade.

Luke is getting less effective each and every game he plays. He's been figured out,
Career reserve grader is his level imo

 

[Iamback]

Luke is getting less effective each and every game he plays. He's been figured out,
Career reserve grader is his level imo

Pretty much this.

People act like our hooker combo are teenagers or something.

The club rightful is open to a new option in 9

 

[Iamback]

Two things;
- try assists!! C’mon man, really. The Blocka Roach of stats.
- we can afford to play Luke in the game at small minutes because Kenny is effective in our middle rotation.

Ok you don't like try assists,

What stats do you want to use to judge Kenny's effectiveness then?

In most categories he is well behind others. Billy Walters is the only clear worse hooker

 

[Kilkenny]

Numbers seem to match up with the eye test.

Billy Walters is the only regular hooker that Kenny beats in most categories

Even Phoenix Crossland who is new to hooker and 3rd choice at Newcastle has a better tackle %.

I think it best you lay off the stats for a while, they are having a detrimental effect on your ability to reason and make basic sensible argument.

Most supporters think Mitch does a fair to good job for us overall. Most if not all agree he is never going to play for the Blues or represent his country he has the job until someone better comes along or we recruit someone better.

In the meantime, allow those that are happy just to support Mitch until someone better comes along and stop boring the pants of us with your non stop application of statistics to somehow justify you know all and the rest of us know nothing.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Ok you don't like try assists,

What stats do you want to use to judge Kenny's effectiveness then?

In most categories he is well behind others. Billy Walters is the only clear worse hooker

No I don’t like try assists; they are a popularity contest and don’t really reflect the realities of try creation.

Cleary was credited with a try assist in the SOO1 (at least in commentary during the Saints game); which try did he assist?
Who gets the try assist for Tago’s try on the weekend? How about for To’o’s try.

If you want to get a good grip on the games put down the SuperCoach guide and watch the games; anyone who has watched enough games this season would know that in the Roosters game Luai was a lot more creative than Peachey and in general, that Kenny is a better defender than Phoenix Crosland!

 

[MugaB]

Ok you don't like try assists,

What stats do you want to use to judge Kenny's effectiveness then?

In most categories he is well behind others. Billy Walters is the only clear worse hooker

I like mitch kenny, he might not be a world beater, but he is definitely a prop beater... his efforts in the last GF and in most of our games in general are what are keeping our differential so high, i wouldnt trade him for anyone barr Api, and those who are advocating for another teams hooker are wasting their time, Phoenix crosslands is a terrible defender, how is that an upgrade? Ivan values defence, i value winning, and dont really care by how much, defense plays a huge part of that, kennys the benchmark in my opinion right now, too many people wanting the flashy ruck stepper, and guile that harry, api and cook bring, but give me a solid defender, with room for improvement anyday of the week... dylan edwards was in the same mold and had his critiques... look at him now