Rabbitohs and Maguire part ways

[sensesmaybenumbed]

You'd have to think there are a good half dozen NRL coaches getting a little nervous with Madge now on the market. Penrith, Tigers, Titans, Dragons, Bulldogs, and Warriors are mad if they aren't making inquiries.

The tigers would be crazy to consider it. After years of infighting and lack of direction, we finally have unity and a single heading. To throw all that away is simply not happening.

 

[yobbo84]

I'd consider Maquire to be in the top 4 or 5 coaches in the league. Any team whose coach isn't on that list should be at least entertaining the idea of bringing him on board.

Cleary no doubt deserves a chance, and I'm sure he'll get it. Just saying that top line coaches with proven records of success are extremely rare. So when one hits the market, pretty much all clubs would take notice. Any coach whose side finished out of the 8 (and even a couple in it) would be probably contacting their CEO today seeking assurances on their position.

This is what bothers me. I'd only accept the decision if we were signing Bellamy, Robinson, Arthur or Flanagan. We're not - we're replacing a premiership winning coach who has nurtured some good young talent this year with either someone who is untried or someone who has tried and failed. It's a huge punt.

 

[yobbo84]

Once Burgess's giant money deal was signed that was the death knell for Souths in 2017 IMO. No team can carry a prop on that sort of money.

Disagree. Our forward pack has been well balanced (other than George and Tom both undergoing significant surgeries at the same time). There haven't been many games this year we lost in the middle.

The real problem is GI not playing - he's the key to our whole attack and because he is on so much, outside him our depth has been horrible in the backs. We lost plenty of games out wide this year due to the nuffies we had to play there.

We've somewhat rectified this with the recruitment of Gagai and the progression of Johnston. We're still a back or two short though.

The problem has been retention & recruitment post 2014, not the coaching. If Madge is gone, so be it, but Shane Richardson should follow in 2018 if there's no immediate return to form.

 

[Pommy]

Disagree. Our forward pack has been well balanced (other than George and Tom both undergoing significant surgeries at the same time). There haven't been many games this year we lost in the middle.

The real problem is GI not playing - he's the key to our whole attack and because he is on so much, outside him our depth has been horrible in the backs. We lost plenty of games out wide this year due to the nuffies we had to play there.

We've somewhat rectified this with the recruitment of Gagai and the progression of Johnston. We're still a back or two short though.

The problem has been retention & recruitment post 2014, not the coaching. If Madge is gone, so be it, but Shane Richardson should follow in 2018 if there's no immediate return to form.

You do remember that Richardson wasn't here post 2014. The signing of the twins wasn't done on his watch. I do think recruitment and retention has been an issue but people do seem to forget this issue.

 

[Danish]

Disagree. Our forward pack has been well balanced (other than George and Tom both undergoing significant surgeries at the same time). There haven't been many games this year we lost in the middle.

The real problem is GI not playing - he's the key to our whole attack and because he is on so much, outside him our depth has been horrible in the backs. We lost plenty of games out wide this year due to the nuffies we had to play there.

We've somewhat rectified this with the recruitment of Gagai and the progression of Johnston. We're still a back or two short though.

The problem has been retention & recruitment post 2014, not the coaching. If Madge is gone, so be it, but Shane Richardson should follow in 2018 if there's no immediate return to form.

Thing is though that balance in the forwards meant absolutely zero money left over for backline players. Inglis had to carry the entire backline, and once he went down that was all she wrote.

Saving some of that Burgess coin to be able to keep hold of some of the backline guys you got rid of would have helped quite a bit

 

[Captain Apollo]

Thing is though that balance in the forwards meant absolutely zero money left over for backline players. Inglis had to carry the entire backline, and once he went down that was all she wrote.

Saving some of that Burgess coin to be able to keep hold of some of the backline guys you got rid of would have helped quite a bit

It's worse than that. When Sam Burgess announced he wanted to come back to Souths, Souths had no salary cap room to sign him. Hence they offloaded a number of players to create that room, with many of them being backrowers. Thus their forwards had an overabundance of "power" forwards and a lack of hole running edge forwards with a high work rate in defence. Having all 3 Burgess boys then on the books on big coin meant there was no room to sign or retain quality backline players, with this lack of punch in the backs exacerbated by Inglis' injury.

This is what has lead to Souths using much of the same tactics which won them the comp in 2014, the power game up the middle. Unfortunately the game has moved on from those days, and Souths in the last two seasons rarely showed they had a "plan b" when the power game failed to work. The blame for this, at least in part, can be laid at Maguire's feet.

 

[yobbo84]

It's worse than that. When Sam Burgess announced he wanted to come back to Souths, Souths had no salary cap room to sign him. Hence they offloaded a number of players to create that room, with many of them being backrowers. Thus their forwards had an overabundance of "power" forwards and a lack of hole running edge forwards with a high work rate in defence. Having all 3 Burgess boys then on the books on big coin meant there was no room to sign or retain quality backline players, with this lack of punch in the backs exacerbated by Inglis' injury.

This is what has lead to Souths using much of the same tactics which won them the comp in 2014, the power game up the middle. Unfortunately the game has moved on from those days, and Souths in the last two seasons rarely showed they had a "plan b" when the power game failed to work. The blame for this, at least in part, can be laid at Maguire's feet.

Honestly - that's crap. The "Souths play the same" mantra is one thrown around lazily by people who pay little attention.

 

[Rhino_NQ]

losing quality in the pack and then having to get down the other end of the field all by themselves without legups isn't a good combo

 

[yobbo84]

Thing is though that balance in the forwards meant absolutely zero money left over for backline players. Inglis had to carry the entire backline, and once he went down that was all she wrote.

Saving some of that Burgess coin to be able to keep hold of some of the backline guys you got rid of would have helped quite a bit

I'm not sure what it is about Sam Burgess - his media profile, relationship to Crowe, or what - but people have an unhealthy dislike of him. Fact is he's still the best middle forward in the world (outside Taumalolo who has probably overtaken him) and one of those players you move heaven & earth to have in your side. If he was off contract today I guarantee you all 15 other clubs would be interested.

The backs we let go were either Rusty's fault (Keary), disciplinary/ego problems (Roberts, Walker, Auva'a) or retirement (Tuqiri). A lot of that was out of his control.

 

[yobbo84]

losing quality in the pack and then having to get down the other end of the field all by themselves without legups isn't a good combo

Again, that's crap. We had no problem getting into the opposition 20, only scoring tries once we got there.

 

[M2D2]

Does nobody remember the NRL made Burgess sign a higher contract than what he wanted to sign for because it was 'below market value' which forced players to go?
No?
Okay.

 

[Ron's_Mate]

Jason Taylor's chance for redemption.

 

[Pommy]

I met Madge not long before the Sam Burgess signing and he was very keen to get him back saying 'Sam is a big part of what we do'
People can say Madge didn't sign him, but I'm convinced he was very keen on it happening. Sam isn't the issue anyway, is he well paid? yes but I do feel he is worth it. The issue is brothers they are just steeling a living, George in particular.
Having the best part of a million dollars play for 8 minutes this season really hasn't helped.

 

[kbw]

South's half back is constantly injured. The other options Sutton and Walker are crap. Walker is a shit defender and Sutton well would not have played first grade for any other club.

There are several players still young and inexperienced and Souths best player is a 21 year old forwar (Crichton)
These are most of the reasons they are struggling and with fat Richos incompetence I would not be surprised if they loose some of these good young kids.

Apparently GI is a great influence at training, driving the professionalism off the field, but he has been lazy garbage since the GF so he isn't that much of a factor.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

There's an old saying in rugby league, 'if souths are doing badly everyone lols'.

We should be happy.

 

[Pommy]

South's half back is constantly injured. The other options Sutton and Walker are crap. Walker is a shit defender and Sutton well would not have played first grade for any other club.

There are several players still young and inexperienced and Souths best player is a 21 year old forwar (Crichton)
These are most of the reasons they are struggling and with fat Richos incompetence I would not be surprised if they loose some of these good young kids.

Apparently GI is a great influence at training, driving the professionalism off the field, but he has been lazy garbage since the GF so he isn't that much of a factor.

I do think Richos part in this has been overstated. Sure there has been crap recruitment but did everyone forget he left the club and the twins (the worst contracts we've issued) we're done off his watch?

 

[Different kind of Rabbit]

Whichever way you want to slice it up, we had a big opportunity to secure a place in the competition as one of the real super powers. We won the comp in 2014, had a heap of young quality players coming through, massive membership, great crowds and all the other trappings of success.

From there we should have built ourselves to a position where we were able to figure highly in the top eight for at least the next ten years.

But unfortunately, fat Richo didn't care what happened post 2014 as he'd already lined himself up a cushy job at the NRL. Sam and Ben Te'o took off and that really should have been a blessing. Both of them would have been on decent coin at the time and we should have used that to keep a few of the other young guns we had and we could have also probably poached a few young up and comers from other clubs. Instead, we threw stupid money at Glenn Stewart and made some other dopey decisions around roster management. Then when Sam became available again, we mortgaged ourselves up to the eyeballs to bring him back.

Last year, just to show we hadn't learned anything, we let Cam McInnes leave and signed Robbie Farah.

Now, we've booted a top line coach (who we only re-signed to a multi year deal last year) at a massive cost and because of this payout, we've basically consigned ourselves to having to have a rookie.

If 11th wasn't good enough this year then why was it good enough last year? Why did we resign Madge to a three year deal when the likes of Ivan Cleary was looking for a club to coach?

So in 2018 we'll still have a bog average roster, be heavily reliant on Sam Burgess, his twin brothers who are horribly out of form, Adam Reynolds who is horribly out of form and Greg Inglis who could only muster half a game in 2017. On top of that, we'll be lead by a rookie coach.

Seriously... You couldn't make this shit up and I'm at a loss for words to describe how dumb my club has been for the last three years, culminating in the stupidest decision of them all, yesterday.

 

[kbw]

I do think Richos part in this has been overstated. Sure there has been crap recruitment but did everyone forget he left the club and the twins (the worst contracts we've issued) we're done off his watch?

Its not just his recruitment, he is playing power games and getting some good people upset

 

[madunit]

I'd consider Maquire to be in the top 4 or 5 coaches in the league. Any team whose coach isn't on that list should be at least entertaining the idea of bringing him on board.

Cleary no doubt deserves a chance, and I'm sure he'll get it. Just saying that top line coaches with proven records of success are extremely rare. So when one hits the market, pretty much all clubs would take notice. Any coach whose side finished out of the 8 (and even a couple in it) would be probably contacting their CEO today seeking assurances on their position.

Yeah I agree. But I cannot see why the Tigers would be one of the teams mentioned.

Cleary has come in and already has made improvements to the teams defence in the past 7 weeks. He's completed the much needed clean out and produced the greatest (in number and quality) recruitment drive in the clubs history and is about to embark on his first full season with the side he has put together.

It makes no sense to get rid of him after all of the positive progress he has managed to make in just a few months.

 

[Front-Rower]

But I cannot see why the Tigers would be one of the teams mentioned.

Rooster mentality, buy him and let him coach reserve grade just so we don't have to go up against him. That's all that is.