Recreational Drugs

[Mr Angry]

Speeding is illegal and dangerous are we sacking player who speed in thier cars, are we testing if they speed.

There are many laws a league player can break, are we going to monitor them all?
Are we going to sack any player who breaks a law?

 

[Kiwi]

Drugs are illegal and a major problem in society.

To those who think players shouldn't be tested for doing something illegal ect, wake up, these guys a role models to kids, do we want to send a message to kids that doing drugs is ok? Do we want our kids to think doing something illegal is fine if someone famous does it?

Somebody said their work doesn't test them for recreational drugs when ever they go to work so why should the NRL. Does their work test them for steroids? Guess the NRL can't test for that now either. And if some joe public goes to work stoned, they get fired the company moves on. Some league player does it, they get suspended, the club loses sponsors ect, it costs the club a sh*t load of money. You bet your ass they should be able to test for it.

To OVP, your an idiot just because some of us aren't stupid enough to try drugs, doesn't mean we can't comment on it. And just because we don't agree with you that doesn't make us Nazi's ya f***ing hippie ;-)

Hey I agree totally with everything you've said here, but don't you find it a tad ironic that in our society we have major venders all over every suberb that are designed to fernish people with alcohole? Which is, lets face it, a mind altering drug... Moreover which drug in the last couple of years has cost NRL the most sponsors? Bingo! It's Booz!

the simple facts are it's legal, and you have to consume extremely large quantities of alcohol for it to kill you. How easy is it to overdose on drugs? How often is someone killed for their next hit of alcohol or a smoke as compared to drugs?

We could argue why alcohol ect is legal and other drugs are not all year, the simple fact is thats not the debate here, it's should they be allowed to test for something illegal, and the correct answer is, hell yes.

Sorry, but I tend to think that's a tad soft personally... also, depending on the drug you also have to take very large amounts of it to kill you, you would have to smoke marujana for days on end for it to kill you, does that make it ok? I don't know about you, but I have seen alcohole do more damage to the game of rugby league over the past couple of years than any other substance! It doesn't have to kill you straight away for it to be a bad drug! It's all very good and well to say "it's legal" but it's STILL a mind altering drug! As you said, these players are suposed to be role models for kids FFS! Drunks cause so much public damage each year it's not funny and your telling the fact that it's "legal" makes it better than the illegal drugs? They're all the same mate, they all KILL.

Some clubs have strict policies on drinking, obviously some don't and thats their choice. And like I said the debate isn't why is alcohol legal and drugs not ect. You wanna debate that go to the four corners forum. The debate here is should the clubs be allowed to test for illegal drugs.

 

[eeelectroshooting?]

Drugs are illegal and a major problem in society.

To those who think players shouldn't be tested for doing something illegal ect, wake up, these guys a role models to kids, do we want to send a message to kids that doing drugs is ok?

sort of, yes but not exactly. the kids need to be educated properly about drugs, but not in the manner of some antiquated 'old school' drug policies; that all drugs are bad. It is a fact that most drugs were deemed illegal before thorough research was done on the substances.

Alcohol has been used worldwide for thousands of years, therefore it is socialy acceptable and still legal. Ephedrine (speed homologue), opiates (of which heroin is a derivative) and marijuana have been used in China and the East for upwards of 5000years. With racism now a thing of the past, is the connection not apparant that the decisions to make these drugs illegal were not racially driven? Think about it, a few hundred years ago racism was rife all over the world, of course the contemporay governements would fear these 'coloured' people and their wacky substances. So our illicit drugs stem back to western cultures lack of cultre (drug culture that is) ;-)

The Netherlands, the worlds guinea pig nation in regards to drug laws has only 2.4 drug-related deaths per million inhabitants, the lowest in europe. closely followed by France with 9.5 heading up to 27.1 per million in Spain. The Dutch AIDS prevention programme was equally successful. Europe-wide, an average of 39.2% of AIDS victims are intravenous drug-users. In the Netherlands, this percentage is as low as 10.5%.

source: Netherlands Ministry of Justice, Fact Sheet: Dutch Drugs Policy http://www.minjust.nl:8080/a_beleid/fact/cfact7.htm.

"Cannabis use among young people has also increased in most Western European countries and in the US. The rate of (cannabis) use among young people in the US is much higher than in the Netherlands, and Great Britain and Ireland also have relatively larger numbers of school students who use cannabis."

source: Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, Drug Policy in the Netherlands: Progress Report September 1997-September 1999, (The Hague: Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, November 1999), p. 7.

"The figures for cannabis use among the general population reveal the same pictures. The Netherlands does not differ greatly from other European countries. In contrast, a comparison with the US shows a striking difference in this area: 32.9% of Americans aged 12 and above have experience with cannabis and 5.1% have used in the past month. These figures are twice as high as those in the Netherlands."

Source: Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, Drug Policy in the Netherlands: Progress Report September 1997-September 1999, (The Hague: Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport, November 1999), pp. 7-8.

there is a list of these facts as long as your arm, germany and ireland are in the throws of adopting some of the Netherlands policies...it is a matter of time before the rest of the world follow suit.

Do we want our kids to think doing something illegal is fine if someone famous does it?

definitely no

Somebody said their work doesn't test them for recreational drugs when ever they go to work so why should the NRL. Does their work test them for steroids? Guess the NRL can't test for that now either. And if some joe public goes to work stoned, they get fired the company moves on. Some league player does it, they get suspended, the club loses sponsors ect, it costs the club a sh*t load of money. You bet your ass they should be able to test for it.

To OVP, your an idiot just because some of us aren't stupid enough to try drugs, doesn't mean we can't comment on it. And just because we don't agree with you that doesn't make us Nazi's ya f***ing hippie ;-)

i have to agree with OVP, unless you are a pharmacologist, an avid drug reaseacher (but not taker), or someone who has tried them, then that would make you prejudiced. but of course you're entitled to your misinformed opinion. :roll:

 

[Kiwi]

Speeding is illegal and dangerous are we sacking player who speed in thier cars, are we testing if they speed.

There are many laws a league player can break, are we going to monitor them all?
Are we going to sack any player who breaks a law?

do players get fined for bringing the game into disrepute when they do something like that? Of course they do, did Mason cop it when he got done over the Taxi incident, you bet he did.

If a player from your club goes out gets drugged up to the eye balls, or breaks the law in some way, and it ends up all over the papers, the club loses money out of it ect. What do you expect your club to do?

 

[strong_latte]

All I'm saying is they should test for ALL drugs! including alcohole.

 

[Mr Angry]

do players get fined for bringing the game into disrepute when they do something like that? Of course they do, did Mason cop it when he got done over the Taxi incident, you bet he did.

:lol: Yet Mason still plays where is Walker again?

 

[Kiwi]

eeelectroshooting?

Like I said this isn't a debate about why drugs should be legal, it's about if the clubs and nrl should be allowed to test for them.

Well there you go people, unless you you are a pharmacologist, an avid drug reaseacher, or user you can't comment on them. Guess we better leave all the drug talk to the druggos and their dealers.

 

[cainen]

Because the side effects from ecstasy are far more detrimental than those of alcohol.
ie. Trigger of mental illness.

I have a friend who has had skitzophrenia (sp?) triggered by alcohol.

He was going to go and fight in Israel. The courts put him in an asylum for a while after that.

On a side note, how many people have you ever seen getting violent and fighting after smoking pot or dropping an e and how many violent people have you seen after they've been drinking heavily?

IMO, unless the club has a specific anti-drug policy in place that covers all drugs, including alcohol, then recreational drugs such as e's and pot shouldn't be tested for.

If the club has an anti-drug policy (which I assume most probably do) that the player has agreed to when signing a contract then test away.

I don't think that the NRL should test for non-performance enhancing drugs.

edited to bring on topic

 

[eeelectroshooting?]

eeelectroshooting?

Like I said this isn't a debate about why drugs should be legal, it's about if the clubs and nrl should be allowed to test for them.

Well there you go people, unless you you are a pharmacologist, an avid drug reaseacher, or user you can't comment on them. Guess we better leave all the drug talk to the druggos and their dealers.

sorry i did get a little off topic there, however, the legality of drugs and whether NRL should test for them are one in the same.
if we look at drugs tested in sports in general: they dont only look at performance enahncing drugs. The tests encompass all illicit drugs as well.

my opinion on the topic is that they should test for everything under the sun, but my opinion on society is that they should change the laws to remove this absolute non-issue.

i didnt say you cant comment on them (in so many words) but to say something along the lines of "if your not stupid enough to try them.." you are qualifying drug users as stupid, i was merely making everyone aware of your lack of knowledge in making that opinion.
drug education obviously worked on you. kudos to the system
](*,)

 

[Kiwi]

eeelectroshooting?

Like I said this isn't a debate about why drugs should be legal, it's about if the clubs and nrl should be allowed to test for them.

Well there you go people, unless you you are a pharmacologist, an avid drug reaseacher, or user you can't comment on them. Guess we better leave all the drug talk to the druggos and their dealers.

sorry i did get a little off topic there, however, the legality of drugs and whether NRL should test for them are one in the same.
if we look at drugs tested in sports in general: they dont only look at performance enahncing drugs. The tests encompass all illicit drugs as well.

my opinion on the topic is that they should test for everything under the sun, but my opinion on society is that they should change the laws to remove this absolute non-issue.

i didnt say you cant comment on them (in so many words) but to say something along the lines of "if your not stupid enough to try them.." you are qualifying drug users as stupid, i was merely making everyone aware of your lack of knowledge in making that opinion.
drug education obviously worked on you. kudos to the system
](*,)

It's got nothing to do with drug education.

And please do tell me, whats smart about taking drugs?

 

[strong_latte]

eeelectroshooting?

Like I said this isn't a debate about why drugs should be legal, it's about if the clubs and nrl should be allowed to test for them.

Well there you go people, unless you you are a pharmacologist, an avid drug reaseacher, or user you can't comment on them. Guess we better leave all the drug talk to the druggos and their dealers.

sorry i did get a little off topic there, however, the legality of drugs and whether NRL should test for them are one in the same.
if we look at drugs tested in sports in general: they dont only look at performance enahncing drugs. The tests encompass all illicit drugs as well.

my opinion on the topic is that they should test for everything under the sun, but my opinion on society is that they should change the laws to remove this absolute non-issue.

i didnt say you cant comment on them (in so many words) but to say something along the lines of "if your not stupid enough to try them.." you are qualifying drug users as stupid, i was merely making everyone aware of your lack of knowledge in making that opinion.
drug education obviously worked on you. kudos to the system
](*,)

It's got nothing to do with drug education.

And please do tell me, whats smart about taking drugs?

Nothing. But then who can argue that drinking Alcohole or smoking cigarette's is smart? exactly!

 

[eeelectroshooting?]

i havent said its smart

however... evidence from studies and anecdotal case reports indicate that the long term behavioral changes after MDMA use are generally regarded as positive. does positive=smart? These people report having lowered impulsiveness and hostility, improved social/interpersonal functioning as well as changes in religious/ spiritual orientation or practice. One of the only substantiated claims about long term physical damage is that being done to the teeth of users. (note: no mental illness evidence) Findings from the study “The occurrence of toothwear in users of Ecstasy” (1999) indicate the severity of toothwear and the number of teeth affected were greater in Ecstasy users than in a group of non-users (60%:11%, users: non-users). This could be attributed to the continual teeth grinding (Bruxia) and jaw clenching (Trisma) which are common side effects of MDMA use.

if thats the worst MDMA has to offer.....

it has already been brought up about violence associated with alcohol and not other drugs. there's another advantage. although i know not everyone gets violent.

certain hallucinogens have been known to 'open the third eye of perception' allowing the user (even from one use) to have heightened artisitc ability, and for those not artistically inclined have an increased awareness for beauty and nature.

 

[Kiwi]

i havent said its smart

however... evidence from studies and anecdotal case reports indicate that the long term behavioral changes after MDMA use are generally regarded as positive. does positive=smart? These people report having lowered impulsiveness and hostility, improved social/interpersonal functioning as well as changes in religious/ spiritual orientation or practice. One of the only substantiated claims about long term physical damage is that being done to the teeth of users. (note: no mental illness evidence) Findings from the study “The occurrence of toothwear in users of Ecstasy” (1999) indicate the severity of toothwear and the number of teeth affected were greater in Ecstasy users than in a group of non-users (60%:11%, users: non-users). This could be attributed to the continual teeth grinding (Bruxia) and jaw clenching (Trisma) which are common side effects of MDMA use.

if thats the worst MDMA has to offer.....

it has already been brought up about violence associated with alcohol and not other drugs. there's another advantage. although i know not everyone gets violent.

certain hallucinogens have been known to 'open the third eye of perception' allowing the user (even from one use) to have heightened artisitc ability, and for those not artistically inclined have an increased awareness for beauty and nature.

So thats the worst drugs like heroin, cocaine ect offer. Well there you go people, nothing to be worried about. So next time a drug addict breaks into your house, get them to paint you a picture or tell you how beautiful you are before they attack you. Atleast then you'll have a nice painting to show at the funeral or feel good about yourself while they're beating you.

 

[cainen]

i havent said its smart

however... evidence from studies and anecdotal case reports indicate that the long term behavioral changes after MDMA use are generally regarded as positive. does positive=smart? These people report having lowered impulsiveness and hostility, improved social/interpersonal functioning as well as changes in religious/ spiritual orientation or practice. One of the only substantiated claims about long term physical damage is that being done to the teeth of users. (note: no mental illness evidence) Findings from the study “The occurrence of toothwear in users of Ecstasy” (1999) indicate the severity of toothwear and the number of teeth affected were greater in Ecstasy users than in a group of non-users (60%:11%, users: non-users). This could be attributed to the continual teeth grinding (Bruxia) and jaw clenching (Trisma) which are common side effects of MDMA use.

I agree with you, but what is your source?

Also worth noting is that the majority of deaths and hospitalisations of people who have taken MDMA come from them taking a pill thats come from a bad batch due to it being made in unsanitary conditions, a result of it being illegal.

 

[strong_latte]

i havent said its smart

however... evidence from studies and anecdotal case reports indicate that the long term behavioral changes after MDMA use are generally regarded as positive. does positive=smart? These people report having lowered impulsiveness and hostility, improved social/interpersonal functioning as well as changes in religious/ spiritual orientation or practice. One of the only substantiated claims about long term physical damage is that being done to the teeth of users. (note: no mental illness evidence) Findings from the study “The occurrence of toothwear in users of Ecstasy” (1999) indicate the severity of toothwear and the number of teeth affected were greater in Ecstasy users than in a group of non-users (60%:11%, users: non-users). This could be attributed to the continual teeth grinding (Bruxia) and jaw clenching (Trisma) which are common side effects of MDMA use.

if thats the worst MDMA has to offer.....

it has already been brought up about violence associated with alcohol and not other drugs. there's another advantage. although i know not everyone gets violent.

certain hallucinogens have been known to 'open the third eye of perception' allowing the user (even from one use) to have heightened artisitc ability, and for those not artistically inclined have an increased awareness for beauty and nature.

So thats the worst drugs like heroin, cocaine ect offer. Well there you go people, nothing to be worried about. So next time a drug addict breaks into your house, get them to paint you a picture or tell you how beautiful you are before they attack you. Atleast then you'll have a nice painting to show at the funeral or feel good about yourself while they're beating you.

So what do i do when an alcoholic gambling addicted lunatic tries to stab me so he can steal my money and spend it on the pokies?
Do I say "oh, but both alcohole and gambling are legal! So i may aswell accept these people".

 

[cainen]

So thats the worst drugs like heroin, cocaine ect offer. Well there you go people, nothing to be worried about. So next time a drug addict breaks into your house, get them to paint you a picture or tell you how beautiful you are before they attack you. Atleast then you'll have a nice painting to show at the funeral or feel good about yourself while they're beating you.

Can you point out to me where he referred to heroin or cocaine?

 

[Kiwi]

i havent said its smart

however... evidence from studies and anecdotal case reports indicate that the long term behavioral changes after MDMA use are generally regarded as positive. does positive=smart? These people report having lowered impulsiveness and hostility, improved social/interpersonal functioning as well as changes in religious/ spiritual orientation or practice. One of the only substantiated claims about long term physical damage is that being done to the teeth of users. (note: no mental illness evidence) Findings from the study “The occurrence of toothwear in users of Ecstasy” (1999) indicate the severity of toothwear and the number of teeth affected were greater in Ecstasy users than in a group of non-users (60%:11%, users: non-users). This could be attributed to the continual teeth grinding (Bruxia) and jaw clenching (Trisma) which are common side effects of MDMA use.

if thats the worst MDMA has to offer.....

it has already been brought up about violence associated with alcohol and not other drugs. there's another advantage. although i know not everyone gets violent.

certain hallucinogens have been known to 'open the third eye of perception' allowing the user (even from one use) to have heightened artisitc ability, and for those not artistically inclined have an increased awareness for beauty and nature.

So thats the worst drugs like heroin, cocaine ect offer. Well there you go people, nothing to be worried about. So next time a drug addict breaks into your house, get them to paint you a picture or tell you how beautiful you are before they attack you. Atleast then you'll have a nice painting to show at the funeral or feel good about yourself while they're beating you.

So what do i do when an alcoholic gambling addicted lunatic tries to stab me so he can steal my money and spend it on the pokies?
Do I say "oh, but both alcohole and gambling are legal! So i may aswell accept these people".

I like how you had to throw something completely irrelevant like gambling in there to try an make a point.

 

[Kiwi]

So thats the worst drugs like heroin, cocaine ect offer. Well there you go people, nothing to be worried about. So next time a drug addict breaks into your house, get them to paint you a picture or tell you how beautiful you are before they attack you. Atleast then you'll have a nice painting to show at the funeral or feel good about yourself while they're beating you.

Can you point out to me where he referred to heroin or cocaine?

the are mind altering or hallucinogens are they not?

 

[strong_latte]

i havent said its smart

however... evidence from studies and anecdotal case reports indicate that the long term behavioral changes after MDMA use are generally regarded as positive. does positive=smart? These people report having lowered impulsiveness and hostility, improved social/interpersonal functioning as well as changes in religious/ spiritual orientation or practice. One of the only substantiated claims about long term physical damage is that being done to the teeth of users. (note: no mental illness evidence) Findings from the study “The occurrence of toothwear in users of Ecstasy” (1999) indicate the severity of toothwear and the number of teeth affected were greater in Ecstasy users than in a group of non-users (60%:11%, users: non-users). This could be attributed to the continual teeth grinding (Bruxia) and jaw clenching (Trisma) which are common side effects of MDMA use.

if thats the worst MDMA has to offer.....

it has already been brought up about violence associated with alcohol and not other drugs. there's another advantage. although i know not everyone gets violent.

certain hallucinogens have been known to 'open the third eye of perception' allowing the user (even from one use) to have heightened artisitc ability, and for those not artistically inclined have an increased awareness for beauty and nature.

So thats the worst drugs like heroin, cocaine ect offer. Well there you go people, nothing to be worried about. So next time a drug addict breaks into your house, get them to paint you a picture or tell you how beautiful you are before they attack you. Atleast then you'll have a nice painting to show at the funeral or feel good about yourself while they're beating you.

So what do i do when an alcoholic gambling addicted lunatic tries to stab me so he can steal my money and spend it on the pokies?
Do I say "oh, but both alcohole and gambling are legal! So i may aswell accept these people".

I like how you had to throw something completely irrelevant like gambling in there to try an make a point.

It's relevant because the basis of your argument hs essentially been the legality issue... My point is that many legal substances have caused WORSE damage, but you have still refused to accpet that legal drugs can be as bad or worse than alot of illegal ones... and I just don't see where the distinction is.

 

[cainen]

I like how you had to throw something completely irrelevant like gambling in there to try an make a point.

It's entirely relevant as it's an addiction. If a junkie breaks into your house and steals your things, it's not because theyve just shot up, its because they've got an addiction to the drug.

And on addiction, i'm not sure about extasy, but marijuana is not physically addictive. Only mentally, which is the case for anything that feels good.