What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Recreational Drugs

Messages
735
Kiwi said:
eeelectroshooting? said:
i havent said its smart

however... evidence from studies and anecdotal case reports indicate that the long term behavioral changes after MDMA use are generally regarded as positive. does positive=smart? These people report having lowered impulsiveness and hostility, improved social/interpersonal functioning as well as changes in religious/ spiritual orientation or practice. One of the only substantiated claims about long term physical damage is that being done to the teeth of users. (note: no mental illness evidence) Findings from the study “The occurrence of toothwear in users of Ecstasy” (1999) indicate the severity of toothwear and the number of teeth affected were greater in Ecstasy users than in a group of non-users (60%:11%, users: non-users). This could be attributed to the continual teeth grinding (Bruxia) and jaw clenching (Trisma) which are common side effects of MDMA use.

if thats the worst MDMA has to offer.....

it has already been brought up about violence associated with alcohol and not other drugs. there's another advantage. although i know not everyone gets violent.

certain hallucinogens have been known to 'open the third eye of perception' allowing the user (even from one use) to have heightened artisitc ability, and for those not artistically inclined have an increased awareness for beauty and nature.

So thats the worst drugs like heroin, cocaine ect offer. Well there you go people, nothing to be worried about. So next time a drug addict breaks into your house, get them to paint you a picture or tell you how beautiful you are before they attack you. Atleast then you'll have a nice painting to show at the funeral or feel good about yourself while they're beating you.

what are you talking about? please read my post more carefully, i have not mentioned heroin or cocaine, do not infer what i have said onto other things.

there are hundreds of millions of drugs users in the world who are not addicts and do not break into peoples homes and attack you.

your arguement is weak. im offering to this discussion an educated opinion, and well established facts.
 
Messages
3,296
The problem with recreational drugs is that, being illegal, you are taking huge risks with your life in taking them. The money involved in the trade means that the suppliers prepare them in less than perfect surroundings and may stoop to adding things to the compounds. All the research that I've been able to find on the internet is sanctioned and uses pure grade material. In reality, you'll have drugs that are rarely that and will be mixed with all manner of material, the inter-reaction of which can be very nasty, sometimes fatal. So, if someone thinks it is intelligent to dabble in things such as cocaine and ecstacy, I'd argue that you'd have to question how intelligent they really are.

As for alcohol and tobacco, I've always found it faintly ironic that nicotine is banned while alcohol is not. There is no denying that tobacco is not all that beneficial to your health. Alcohol, depending on which piece of research you believe, has some benefits, mostly if it's red wine and taken in moderation, but creates huge social problems. It's a major contributor to domestic violence and costs the health system billions of dollars each year. Brewing companies do traditionally have strong political connections and, given the widespread use of alcohol, there would be a huge voter backlash if any governement tried to change the legaility of alcohol.

In terms of the issue, you do need to take into account the use of alcohol and nicotine in any argument on recreational drugs, regardless of the question of legality. Personally, I believe in someone's right to their own lifestyle and, if that extends to drug use, that is fine and their own business. The question is though, that if players have clauses in their contracts that prohibit them from using drugs, or drinking or smoking for that matter, then the employer has the right to test them on a regular basis in terms of that contract. If they test positive, then I have no sympathy with them and the club is entitled to take whatever action is considered appropriate in terms of their contract. As far as I am aware, the NRL contracts have these types of clauses. Alcohol, and specifically the misuse of alcohol, is probably captured under the clauses regarding bringing the game into disrepute and I can't see a problem with bans, fines and any other action specified in the contract.

The question of legality is one for the police and the legal system. If our law makers, as they have, pass laws that make it illegal to take things such as ecstacy, cocaine and heroin, then any positive tests should also be referred to the authorities. I disagree with the use of confidentiality clauses to protect people who have broken the law, regardless of whether I agree or disagree that the law is fair. If you want to change the laws, and I'm talking to those who regard the use of such drugs as acceptable, or you feel that something needs to be done about the use of alcohol in our society, write letters to your local Member, get together with other like minded individuals and put pressure on the Government to change things.
 

Kiwi

First Grade
Messages
9,471
cainen said:
Kiwi said:
I like how you had to throw something completely irrelevant like gambling in there to try an make a point.

It's entirely relevant as it's an addiction. If a junkie breaks into your house and steals your things, it's not because theyve just shot up, its because they've got an addiction to the drug.

And on addiction, i'm not sure about extasy, but marijuana is not physically addictive. Only mentally, which is the case for anything that feels good.

well lets throw every single addiction in there then shall we?

It's relevant because it's an addiction :roll:

Next we'll be told there are chocolate addicts out there beating people up for for a milky way who are just as bad a drug addicts.

FFS obviously you guys are quite happy to shoot up or what ever it is you do, but don't expect me or society to pat you on the back for it. This really is pointless and getting us nowhere. Something we're gonna have to agree to disagree on.
 

simon says

First Grade
Messages
5,124
f**k.....all this talkin about drugs is getting me excited...anyone got a light???Or a note....??Some water...??

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Messages
735
cainen said:
eeelectroshooting? said:
i havent said its smart

however... evidence from studies and anecdotal case reports indicate that the long term behavioral changes after MDMA use are generally regarded as positive. does positive=smart? These people report having lowered impulsiveness and hostility, improved social/interpersonal functioning as well as changes in religious/ spiritual orientation or practice. One of the only substantiated claims about long term physical damage is that being done to the teeth of users. (note: no mental illness evidence) Findings from the study “The occurrence of toothwear in users of Ecstasy” (1999) indicate the severity of toothwear and the number of teeth affected were greater in Ecstasy users than in a group of non-users (60%:11%, users: non-users). This could be attributed to the continual teeth grinding (Bruxia) and jaw clenching (Trisma) which are common side effects of MDMA use.

I agree with you, but what is your source?

MDMA Neurotoxicity and Safety http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/psychedelics/x1.html

Milosevic A, Agrawal N, Redfearn P, Mair L (1999) The occurrence of toothwear in users of Ecstasy (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine)
Community Dent Oral Epidemiol,; 27(4):283-7
 

strong_latte

Juniors
Messages
1,665
Kiwi said:
cainen said:
Kiwi said:
I like how you had to throw something completely irrelevant like gambling in there to try an make a point.

It's entirely relevant as it's an addiction. If a junkie breaks into your house and steals your things, it's not because theyve just shot up, its because they've got an addiction to the drug.

And on addiction, i'm not sure about extasy, but marijuana is not physically addictive. Only mentally, which is the case for anything that feels good.

well lets throw every single addiction in there then shall we?

It's relevant because it's an addiction :roll:

Next we'll be told there are chocolate addicts out there beating people up for for a milky way who are just as bad a drug addicts.

I like the way you try to trivialise my argument by avoiding the point i made.
 

cainen

Juniors
Messages
1,907
Kiwi said:
well lets throw every single addiction in there then shall we?

It's relevant because it's an addiction :roll:

Next we'll be told there are chocolate addicts out there beating people up for for a milky way who are just as bad a drug addicts.

FFS obviously you guys are quite happy to shoot up or what ever it is you do, but don't expect me or society to pat you on the back for it. This really is pointless and getting us nowhere. Something we're gonna have to agree to disagree on.

Have you ever heard of someone stealing to feed their chocolate addiction? No.

Have you ever heard of someone stealing to feed their gambling addiction? Yes, it happens quite often.

FFS obviously you guys are quite happy to shoot up or what ever it is you do, but don't expect me or society to pat you on the back for it.

Statements like that simply prove how uneducated your opinion is.
 
Messages
735
Kiwi said:
cainen said:
Kiwi said:
So thats the worst drugs like heroin, cocaine ect offer. Well there you go people, nothing to be worried about. So next time a drug addict breaks into your house, get them to paint you a picture or tell you how beautiful you are before they attack you. Atleast then you'll have a nice painting to show at the funeral or feel good about yourself while they're beating you.

Can you point out to me where he referred to heroin or cocaine?

the are mind altering or hallucinogens are they not?

no hallucinogens are hallucinogens (LSD, mushrooms, etc)

cocaine is classed as a stimulant, however quite dissimilar to amphetamines albeit that they work by similar mechansims

heroin is an opiate, an analgesic, very similiar to morphine, and was first made by the international drug company Bayer and sold to all sorta of ailments.

how you can know so little yet feel so passionately i dont understand, if you dont mind me asking has any negative experince happened to you or you family to make you feel this way? or is this all completely unfounded?
 

Kiwi

First Grade
Messages
9,471
eeelectroshooting? said:
Kiwi said:
cainen said:
Kiwi said:
So thats the worst drugs like heroin, cocaine ect offer. Well there you go people, nothing to be worried about. So next time a drug addict breaks into your house, get them to paint you a picture or tell you how beautiful you are before they attack you. Atleast then you'll have a nice painting to show at the funeral or feel good about yourself while they're beating you.

Can you point out to me where he referred to heroin or cocaine?

the are mind altering or hallucinogens are they not?

no hallucinogens are hallucinogens (LSD, mushrooms, etc)

cocaine is classed as a stimulant, however quite dissimilar to amphetamines albeit that they work by similar mechansims

heroin is an opiate, an analgesic, very similiar to morphine, and was first made by the international drug company Bayer and sold to all sorta of ailments.

how you can know so little yet feel so passionately i dont understand, if you dont mind me asking has any negative experince happened to you or you family to make you feel this way? or is this all completely unfounded?

Because I have seen first hand the damage they do. I don't need to go a read up to find out why it should be ok for someone to take drugs, i've seen for myself why it should never be legal or approved of in any way.
 

Kiwi

First Grade
Messages
9,471
cainen said:
Kiwi said:
well lets throw every single addiction in there then shall we?

It's relevant because it's an addiction :roll:

Next we'll be told there are chocolate addicts out there beating people up for for a milky way who are just as bad a drug addicts.

FFS obviously you guys are quite happy to shoot up or what ever it is you do, but don't expect me or society to pat you on the back for it. This really is pointless and getting us nowhere. Something we're gonna have to agree to disagree on.

Have you ever heard of someone stealing to feed their chocolate addiction? No.

Have you ever heard of someone stealing to feed their gambling addiction? Yes, it happens quite often.

FFS obviously you guys are quite happy to shoot up or what ever it is you do, but don't expect me or society to pat you on the back for it.

Statements like that simply prove how uneducated your opinion is.

How about we group the drug addicts with rapists, serial killers, child molesters? They rape, kill and molest children to feed their addictions.
 

cainen

Juniors
Messages
1,907
Kiwi said:
Because I have seen first hand the damage they do. I don't need to go a read up to find out why it should be ok for someone to take drugs, i've seen for myself why it should never be legal or approved of in any way.

But you're taking this, and applying it to every single drug out there. Even the government isn't so stupid as to generalise drugs all in the one class.
 

cainen

Juniors
Messages
1,907
Kiwi said:
How about we group the drug addicts with rapists, serial killers, child molesters? They rape, kill and molest children to feed their addictions.

I don't think you're doing your argument any good by saying things like that :roll:
 

Kiwi

First Grade
Messages
9,471
cainen said:
Kiwi said:
Because I have seen first hand the damage they do. I don't need to go a read up to find out why it should be ok for someone to take drugs, i've seen for myself why it should never be legal or approved of in any way.

But you're taking this, and applying it to every single drug out there. Even the government isn't so stupid as to generalise drugs all in the one class.

You know the worst illegal drug I have seen do the most damage to people is dope.

You can sprout all this crap about there being no damage done by it, quote articles, what ever, it does damage, is addictive and should like the rest remain illegal.
 
Messages
735
Kiwi said:
Because I have seen first hand the damage they do. I don't need to go a read up to find out why it should be ok for someone to take drugs, i've seen for myself why it should never be legal or approved of in any way.

ok fair enough, but do you understand that that was probably the worst case scenario, and that that type of situation (whatever it may have been) does not happen to the vast majority of people.

also if it were made legal it could be regulated better.

a lot of people may not know that dexamphetamine which is listed of the pharmaceuticals benefits scheme is the dextro- isomer of amphetamine.
so street speed has both the laveo- and dextro- isomers which is less pure than dexamphetamine which is prescribed to children!

couldnt pharmaceutical companies make illicit drugs once legalised? therefore improving quality, reducing costs, promting research to make them less damaging and addictive?

hundreds of thousands of ecstasy pills would be consumed every weekend in sydney alone. imagine if there were no additives, no incorrect binders, no backyeard chemistry, only MDMA and not ajax or omo. a lot of people would be better off. in stead of fighting a losing battle against drugs, why not help improve the situation?
i personally think it'd be ideal
 
Messages
789
Here's a situation:

Your team has a big win on a Saturday night and a few players go out and celebrate. During the night they have a few pills and get home at around 6am. The next training session they are fine and by the next game the drug is out of their system.

Or would you rather then go out and drink huge amounts of alcohol and smoke a pack each and lose some of their fitness.

I know which one I'd rather have.

The only reason pills are illegal is because the government can't make money of them, unlike alcohol and tobacco.
 

strong_latte

Juniors
Messages
1,665
Listen, I think the point here is moderation! I work at a hospital and generally people work hard and play hard... I know alot of people who have used certain recreational drugs on occassion and I know alot of people who simply like to hit the piss... none of these people have ever stolen cars, raped people, killed people or any of the other horrible things associated with any sort of substance use.
 

Kiwi

First Grade
Messages
9,471
cainen said:
Kiwi said:
How about we group the drug addicts with rapists, serial killers, child molesters? They rape, kill and molest children to feed their addictions.

I don't think you're doing your argument any good by saying things like that :roll:

Why not? Is it only appropriate to compare the addictions you want to? There are people out there addicted to the things I listed, there are phelophiles ( sp? ) addicted to child porn.
 

cainen

Juniors
Messages
1,907
Kiwi said:
You know the worst illegal drug I have seen do the most damage to people is dope.

You can sprout all this crap about there being no damage done by it, quote articles, what ever, it does damage, is addictive and should like the rest remain illegal.

You've obviously never seen or dealt with a heroin addict. Nobody has ever said that it doesn't cause damage. It's not healthy, smoking anything is unhealthy. By your reasoning alcohol should be illegal, it's not good for you either is it? And from personal experience I know that it can trigger mental illness. But then the majority of users are fine. Same goes for weed/mdma or any other 'soft' drug.

You have probably met hundreds of people who have or do smoke pot or have taken an e and you just didn't realise because theyre normal, healthy people. You only remember the one or two people that it did have a bad effect on.
 
Messages
789
A lot of people are using the argument that drugs are bad because they're illegal. Well if pills were legalised then the government could produce the drugs, use the money made on drug rehab programs and stop young law abiding people having to deal with drug dealers.

You're never going to stop people from using drugs so why not make sure the drugs they use are safe.
 
Top