Redcliffe Dolphins

[Perth Red]

the South Queensland Crushers showed that it's pretty much impossible to get local support when there is already a local side.
.

Crushers crowd avg in first year 21,029
Same year Broncos avg 35,902.

Yep I can see that was a well though out argument!:sarcasm:

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Crushers crowd avg in first year 21,029
Same year Broncos avg 35,902.

Yep I can see that was a well though out argument!:sarcasm:

Which dropped to 13k in 1996 and 7k in 1997. At one point they were getting less than 5k during the 97 season. Super League was a factor. Still, that's a mighty big drop within 3 (poor on field) seasons. Could they have recouped had they survived for a few more seasons? Big maybe.

 

[Perth Red]

Which dropped to 13k in 96 and 7k in 97. although Super League would have been a factor. Still, that's a mighty big drop within 3 (poor on field) seasons. Could they have recouped had they survived for a few more seasons? Big maybe.

Reflected in what was happenig for everyone with the SL fiasco

eg
Bears avg 15,115 few years later avg 8,500
Newcastle 21,115 down to 14,257
Canterbury 16,900 down to 8,300

The biggest drop in crowds was actually the Warriors who lost 18K fans (26k down to 8K). They managed to rebuild their crowds so no reason why the Crushers wouldn't have done the same.
A lot of clubs during that period saw massive drop offs in crowds. Using any team from around that era as an example of support not being there is foolish.

 

[Loudstrat]

I'm sure you meant to say Lieutenant Cook. He didn't make Captain till 1775.

You are right about James Cook - but had to dumb it down for Buffalo.

Loudtwat..

You absolutely are a geriatric gimp...

I love it when an argument carries the day. Just admit defeat and go home.

Crushers crowd avg in first year 21,029
Same year Broncos avg 35,902.

Yep I can see that was a well though out argument!:sarcasm:

How did they go in their last year again? Which is the point. First year crowds are usually high - novelty factor. Didnt apply to the Mariners though, and apart from the novelty of the first year - the Crushers either. Averaged 7k - against the steelers only 2364. Meanwhile the existing Brisbane side got 19k average

These are the numbers of the fans - the merchandise buyers. Yes, SL happened, but suddenly they were the only side in town playing in the bigger comp of the two.

Anyway, I know you, like Buffalo, cannot give a reason as to why I may be wrong. So I'll help you - consider it a gift from the Pacific coast, the surf of which can be heard in the background as I type.

So - can you tell me the profile of the type of person who will become a fan of the Brisbane Bombers, and what club(s) they will dump in the process?

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Reflected in what was happenig for everyone with the SL fiasco

eg
Bears avg 15,115 few years later avg 8,500
Newcastle 21,115 down to 14,257
Canterbury 16,900 down to 8,300

A lot of clubs during that period saw massive drop offs in crowds. Using any team from around that era as an example of support not being there is foolish.

How is it foolish if that's all we have to go by? I could use the Giants/Seagulls pre-SL crowds but they're shocking. Point stands that after the initial honeymoon-new team novelty period wears out, all new clubs have a mountain of work to do to stay sustainable for 5, 10, 15, 20+ years. Each new club that enters the NRL will have no troubles having decent size crowds for those first few seasons. After that, it's about how well the team/club is run, marketed and embraced by the community. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out post-expansion licenses being granted. I think too much emphasis is being driven on what new clubs will provide short term but nothing is being mentioned about how they will be self sustained long term.

 

[Perth Red]

How did they go in their last year again? Which is the point. First year crowds are usually high - novelty factor. Didnt apply to the Mariners though, and apart from the novelty of the first year - the Crushers either. Averaged 7k - against the steelers only 2364. Meanwhile the existing Brisbane side got 19k average

These are the numbers of the fans - the merchandise buyers. Yes, SL happened, but suddenly they were the only side in town playing in the bigger comp of the two.

So - can you tell me the profile of the type of person who will become a fan of the Brisbane Bombers, and what club(s) they will dump in the process?

read my post above, you will see the reasoning. Majority of teams crowds fell dramatically, all of them went back up again as the code recovered. I see absolutely no evidence from anywhere that the Crushers would not have done the same as every other team in the comp in this regard.

No idea, I am guessing the same as for Perth and CC who are mostly supporting another team already but will switch some of that allegiance to supporting a local NRL team. Do you think there are only 35K RL fans in Brisbane who will pay to go to a game? I keep hearing that there are tens of thousands who won't support the Broncos for a variety of reasons. I am guessing these will be the Bombers market.

 

[Brutus]

How did they go in their last year again? Which is the point. First year crowds are usually high - novelty factor. Didnt apply to the Mariners though, and apart from the novelty of the first year - the Crushers either. Averaged 7k - against the steelers only 2364. Meanwhile the existing Brisbane side got 19k average

?

:crazy::crazy::crazy:

 

[Perth Red]

:crazy::crazy::crazy:

yes he is isn;t he?

By Loudtarts logic the following teams should also have been punted and never brought back as they had sub 10k crowds in '97

Souths
Roosters
Wests
Illawara
St George
Gold Coast
Canterbury
Penrith
Perth

At least it would have sorted out the too many NSW teams problem!:roll:

 

[Red&BlackBear]

yes he is isn;t he?

By Loudtarts logic the following teams should also have been punted and never brought back as they had sub 10k crowds in '97

Souths
Roosters
Wests
Illawara
St George
Gold Coast
Canterbury
Penrith
Perth

At least it would have sorted out the too many NSW teams problem!:roll:

Interesting because of that list only Panthers, Roosters and Bulldogs did survive. Souths got booted (obviously came back after court proceedings), St. George/Illawarra merged, Wests megerd with Balmain and both the Gold Coast and Perth got the boot aswell..

 

[Red&BlackBear]

read my post above, you will see the reasoning. Majority of teams crowds fell dramatically, all of them went back up again as the code recovered. I see absolutely no evidence from anywhere that the Crushers would not have done the same as every other team in the comp in this regard.

No idea, I am guessing the same as for Perth and CC who are mostly supporting another team already but will switch some of that allegiance to supporting a local NRL team. Do you think there are only 35K RL fans in Brisbane who will pay to go to a game? I keep hearing that there are tens of thousands who won't support the Broncos for a variety of reasons. I am guessing these will be the Bombers market.

Whilst every new bid/club will undoubtedly steal some other, current teams not-so-dedicated fans. A lot of the non-Broncos supporters already support an existing franchise. Dragons, Warriors, Titans, Cowboys, Bulldogs, Souths, Storm all have strong fan bases in Brisbane (which will be the fans that the Bombers are aiming for). In reality, all it does is disperse Brisbane-based non-qld team supporters. Unless they actually think they can convert Lions/QReds fans....

Perth has the luxury of stealing existing fans who live in W.A. but more importantly can try to lure Force/Eagles/Dockers/Glory fans to RL. So therefore can bring in new fans to the game. Which they will.

CC region also has fans which go for other clubs, however with the Bears being involved we can lay a foundation of 20,000 (easily) Bears exclusive fans. Which is great in any sense when concerning a new franchise. Our membership numbers are an indication of just how strong that initial foundation core of supporters really is or potentially can be.

 

[Loudstrat]

read my post above, you will see the reasoning. Majority of teams crowds fell dramatically, all of them went back up again as the code recovered. I see absolutely no evidence from anywhere that the Crushers would not have done the same as every other team in the comp in this regard.

Do you know how much the average attendence per game rose by in 1998 compared to 1997?

34 people.

No idea, I am guessing the same as for Perth and CC who are mostly supporting another team already but will switch some of that allegiance to supporting a local NRL team

You do know there is already a local team in Brisbane?

Do you think there are only 35K RL fans in Brisbane who will pay to go to a game? I keep hearing that there are tens of thousands who won't support the Broncos for a variety of reasons. I am guessing these will be the Bombers market.

Yeah? I don't hear that at all. Enlighten me. Links please.

I hear that there are lots of people who wont support the Broncos and who live in Brisbane. There are some on this forum even. They are the ones already with an allegience to another NRL club, be it the Cowboys, Titans, Dragons, Storm, Warriors or whoever. Why would they break that allegience the second time around?

Granted, these people will probably attend Bombers games to support their side in an away game, or attract fans with nothing better to do. That said, if you are basing a multi milion dollar sports club on attracting people who want to see you lose is not really going to impress your bank manager, is it.

Looks like it impressed you and Bruno though. ](*,)

yes he is isn;t he?

By Loudtarts logic the following teams should also have been punted and never brought back as they had sub 10k crowds in '97

Souths
Roosters
Wests
Illawara
St George
Gold Coast
Canterbury
Penrith
Perth

At least it would have sorted out the too many NSW teams problem!:roll:

Who said anything about punting you dumb as dogsh*t sandgroping f*cktard? That's right - you were Traitor League - therefore anti expansion.

Hey, maybe we could have 3 teams called Brisbane playing at Lang Park. Broncos, Bombers and Boneheads. The Boneheads would of course attract thousands of Brisbane fans who love RL and want to support a local side that's not the Broncos OR the Bombers. And for those that for some reason wouldnt like the Boneheads either, we could bring in the Brisbane Bastards! That would work, wouldnt it?

 

[Loudstrat]

Whilst every new bid/club will undoubtedly steal some other, current teams not-so-dedicated fans. A lot of the non-Broncos supporters already support an existing franchise. Dragons, Warriors, Titans, Cowboys, Bulldogs, Souths, Storm all have strong fan bases in Brisbane (which will be the fans that the Bombers are aiming for). In reality, all it does is disperse Brisbane-based non-qld team supporters. Unless they actually think they can convert Lions/QReds fans....

Perth has the luxury of stealing existing fans who live in W.A. but more importantly can try to lure Force/Eagles/Dockers/Glory fans to RL. So therefore can bring in new fans to the game. Which they will.

CC region also has fans which go for other clubs, however with the Bears being involved we can lay a foundation of 20,000 (easily) Bears exclusive fans. Which is great in any sense when concerning a new franchise. Our membership numbers are an indication of just how strong that initial foundation core of supporters really is or potentially can be.

This is what PR doesn't understand, and it's a really simple concept.

Every expansion side got a fan base from those people who wanted to support a local team and did so by swapping allegiances from another side. That happened from every team from St George in 1921 to the Titans a few years back. It failed, however, in 2 locations - both times where the "support your local team" factor was already happening. The Crushes was the only club to go broke during the SL war despite the props that were in place from the money men on either side. And Hunter was f*cked from the word go. Even your mob and Adelaide had blown the Murdoch $ and folded - and they were one city teams arguably in a stringer position than the Storm were in 1998.

How about a second Melbourne side? Surely their scandal prone nature has left a stackload of RL fans needing a more wholesome local club to follow? Or another Redfern based club to attract the lol@souffs fans. Sounds ridiculous, right? So how come its not friggin just as ridiculous in Brisbane????

 

[Scarves]

I tend to agree that any new team placed in Brisbane (if ever) will struggle to replicate half of what the Broncos have achieved. They'll never be as strong as the Broncos either. I think Qld as a state needs another team, both for TV , and for the population of the state in regard to the League population when compared to anywhere else, but strategically I do not know where exactly is the best move.

Redcliffe is a great and proud club but could possibly end up like Port Adelaide in the AFL.

 

[bobmar28]

I tend to agree that any new team placed in Brisbane (if ever) will struggle to replicate half of what the Broncos have achieved. They'll never be as strong as the Broncos either. I think Qld as a state needs another team, both for TV , and for the population of the state in regard to the League population when compared to anywhere else, but strategically I do not know where exactly is the best move.

Redcliffe is a great and proud club but could possibly end up like Port Adelaide in the AFL.

Western corridor is the fastest growing region in the country I have heard.

 

[Quidgybo]

Both the Hunter Mariners and the South Queensland Crushers showed that it's pretty much impossible to get local support when there is already a local side.

They don't show anything of the sort. The only lesson that can conclusively be drawn from the Super League years is that having a bitter divisive war is a bad idea. When even long established multi generational clubs struggled to survive, drawing conclusions on the long term viability of new clubs that have only existed for five minutes is both deceptive and pointless. And any further debate built on that is equally pointless.

Leigh

 

[Quidgybo]

How about a second Melbourne side?

Not ridiculous at all. Having a presence every week in Australia's second biggest market should already be on our long term radar. Not for 20 to 30 years, but in the meantime we should still be planning with that long term objective in mind.

Leigh

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Not ridiculous at all. Having a presence every week in Australia's second biggest market should already be on our long term radar. Not for 20 to 30 years, but in the meantime we should still be planning with that long term objective in mind.

Leigh

Their really should be long term strategic planning to not have all these resources, funds, support go to waste re: the bids. The NRL/IC must have the foresight to allow the CCBears, WAReds, WC and CQLD a chance to enter the NRL at some point in the future. There must also be growing emphasis in Victoria, New Zealand to eventually plant 2nd sides there in the future. Adelaide, Northern Territory & Sunshine Coast for potential relocation options.

It's definitely going to be a long, drawn out process. But for what it's worth, I hope that the NRL gives every bid the opportunity to really stake their claims. Either at a pre-NRL level for a few years or direct entry. It'd be criminal to allow all these resources and supporters go to waste and won't look good for the game or it's hierarchy in the long run.

 

[BranVan3000]

Can I ask Redcliffe fans, how are Justin Hunt and Ryan Carr? I know we've recruited them for next year

 

[Perth Red]

Who said anything about punting you dumb as dogsh*t sandgroping f*cktard? That's right - you were Traitor League - therefore anti expansion.

and here endeth the debate. You always know when Loudtart is shown up as he resorts to the above.:roll:

 

[Joker's Wild]

http://www.melbournestorm.com.au/default.aspx?s=2011-trials

They played against the Ipswich Jets in one half and then against Easts in the 2nd in a trial at Langlands in Feb

Yeah, I just dug around some more and it seems they are still using some Storm contracted players so I guess the feeder arrangement is still on.

I was under the impression that the NSWRL had some power down there in Melb but it seems that is not or no longer the case. Good stuff imo as the clubs up here need NRL support and with only the Broncos and Titans within any reasonable distance there really isnt enough to go around.