Redcliffe put their hand up

[jim_57]

Those people are not against Brisbane 2 though. Should be 18 teams- Brisbane 2 and Perth, pretty simple.

Not enough false outrage in that.

Need a decent Brisbane 2 though, not Brisbane Manly.

 

[Desert Qlder]

What do you think about a merger between Wynnum and Easts to represent eastern suburbs, Logan and Redlands?

East Coast Seagulls.

Two big Leagues Clubs.

There are businesses located in Easts Territory called East Coast.

If they and Dolphins got in it would create a wonderful rivalry.

Just stop.

 

[The Great Dane]

That's a strength - established brand will have instant rivalries

The Redcliffe Dolphins don't have rivalries with any of the NRL clubs, not even the Broncos, and there's no reason to believe that they'll be anymore likely to create 'instant rivalries' than any other team that could be introduced to the NRL.

Ratings tanking in Brisbane without Broncos playing well. Idiots here arguing for Perth & Adelaide - no idea!

Ratings drop everywhere when no local team is playing, and adding more teams to those cities won't stop ratings dropping when there's no local team playing.
Even if you consider it a problem that the ratings drop when no local team is playing, which it isn't BTW, I can't think of anyway that you could actually fix it. You certainly can't fix it by adding more and more teams from the same cities.

Also adding teams to new markets will have a larger impact on the national ratings over the long term than adding teams to markets that already have teams, and the national ratings are more important than just the ratings in Brisbane.

But it's not/shouldn't be an either or though, the NRL should add another team is Brisbane as well as teams from Perth, Adelaide, NZ, and beyond, and people like you shouldn't be trying to make it a competition when it's not.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Cr Sutherland was quick to point out that Australian football hadn’t been neglected.

The council funded a $17m AFL precinct at Burpengary and a $9m AFL precinct at South Pine sports complex in Brendale.

Cr Sutherland said council would pay $6 million to relocate the Redcliffe Tigers AFL club from flood-prone grounds to a site near Newport.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...s/news-story/7da8fb9b6d1c558b35cff54ca43d4775

This stuff really sh!ts me - do you think local councils in Melbourne give a shit about making sure RL hasn't been neglected? F#@k no!!

 

[Pippen94]

The Redcliffe Dolphins don't have rivalries with any of the NRL clubs, not even the Broncos, and there's no reason to believe that they'll be anymore likely to create 'instant rivalries' than any other team that could be introduced to the NRL.

You can't have it both ways - you can't declare club despised throughout Brisbane & then say it'll have no rivalries. Dolphins one of the most well known brands in qld - they'll have strong rivalry with all qld clubs.
That's problem with Titans it's a plastic entity that fans of other clubs have no interest in seeing & it shows in away attendance's.

Ratings drop everywhere when no local team is playing, and adding more teams to those cities won't stop ratings dropping when there's no local team playing.
Even if you consider it a problem that the ratings drop when no local team is playing, which it isn't BTW, I can't think of anyway that you could actually fix it. You certainly can't fix it by adding more and more teams from the same cities.

Also adding teams to new markets will have a larger impact on the national ratings over the long term than adding teams to markets that already have teams, and the national ratings are more important than just the ratings in Brisbane.

But it's not/shouldn't be an either or though, the NRL should add another team is Brisbane as well as teams from Perth, Adelaide, NZ, and beyond, and people like you shouldn't be trying to make it a competition when it's not.

You have no idea. Afl matches in Sydney averaged 25k this weekend. RL teams in Perth & Adelaide would struggle to match that. Melbourne Storm certainly never get that number.
When Broncos going good they get 250k. More Brisbane content will see higher ratings.

 

[Pippen94]

Not enough false outrage in that.

Need a decent Brisbane 2 though, not Brisbane Manly.

Aside from established teams all other bids will be plastic

 

[Pippen94]

Those people are not against Brisbane 2 though. Should be 18 teams- Brisbane 2 and Perth, pretty simple.

Ask Perth red. Undermining any idea of Brisbane 2

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Those people are not against Brisbane 2 though. Should be 18 teams- Brisbane 2 and Perth, pretty simple.

Why Perth?

 

[Perth Red]

Ask Perth red. Undermining any idea of Brisbane 2

Never been against Brisbane2, just dont think it is a dead cert winner that some others do. Its nuts that RL's second biggest city only has one NRL club. Long overdue (Crushers should never have been culled in first place along with Reds and Rams).
What I am against is only expanding by one club and not having more content to sell (thus making the new club cost the NRL money rather than profit from it) and the pure stupidity of the idea that we should have Brisbane3/4 and CC rather than actually grow the game into new markets.

Aside from established teams all other bids will be plastic

All clubs start somewhere.

 

[Perth Red]

Why Perth?

You know why. You just dont agree with it.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Never been against Brisbane2, just dont think it is a dead cert winner that some others do. Its nuts that RL's second biggest city only has one NRL club. Long overdue (Crushers should never have been culled in first place along with Reds and Rams).
What I am against is only expanding by one club and not having more content to sell (thus making the new club cost the NRL money rather than profit from it) and the pure stupidity of the idea that we should have Brisbane3/4 and CC rather than actually grow the game into new markets.

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

I've shown you FACTS that the Storm have failed to grow the game in Victoria, despite 22 years of manufactured success on the field to get people interested. Just 3,500 registered players in the entire state.

When are you going to wake up and accept that the experiment has been a failure?

Now you're pushing the insane idea that the NRL should try to replicate this insanity in Adelaide and Perth.

Who will be the Bellamy, Smith, Slater and Cronk to manufacture success for these clubs?

Bellamy has announced 2021 as rhe year he pulls up stumps. Can they succeed without him?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You know why. You just dont agree with it.

So it can pull shit crowds of below 9,000 like in 1996 and 1997?

So it can be stuck on a multichannel in that market getting watched by 30,000 viewers?

I am sure that will really grow the game!

The only people who want Perth are those who see a world they want to live in, not one that will ever exist. It's why the NRL has never taken Perth seriously.

 

[mongoose]

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

I've shown you FACTS that the Storm have failed to grow the game in Victoria, despite 22 years of manufactured success on the field to get people interested. Just 3,500 registered players in the entire state.

When are you going to wake up and accept that the experiment has been a failure?

Now you're pushing the insane idea that the NRL should try to replicate this insanity in Adelaide and Perth.

Who will be the Bellamy, Smith, Slater and Cronk to manufacture success for these clubs?

Bellamy has announced 2021 as rhe year he pulls up stumps. Can they succeed without him?

The Storm are still in the top half of the NRL for attendance. TV ratings are strong and I doubt the broadcast money would be as high without them. Having a team in the second largest city is a selling point for national TV companies and advertisers.


I don't know what the deal is with juniors, someone at ground level in Melbourne would need to give some insight on that.

 

[Perth Red]

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

I've shown you FACTS that the Storm have failed to grow the game in Victoria, despite 22 years of manufactured success on the field to get people interested. Just 3,500 registered players in the entire state.

When are you going to wake up and accept that the experiment has been a failure?

Now you're pushing the insane idea that the NRL should try to replicate this insanity in Adelaide and Perth.

Who will be the Bellamy, Smith, Slater and Cronk to manufacture success for these clubs?

Bellamy has announced 2021 as rhe year he pulls up stumps. Can they succeed without him?

No you are using, time and again and again, one measurement (that I would suggest has little to do with the Storms KPI's) to try and justify a myopic opinion that the games only expansion side hasn't been the overwhelming success that it actually has, and by inference that any future expansion of the game beyond two states is a waste of time and money.

So it can pull shit crowds of below 9,000 like in 1996 and 1997?
So it can be stuck on a multichannel in that market getting watched by 30,000 viewers?
I am sure that will really grow the game!
The only people who want Perth are those who see a world they want to live in, not one that will ever exist. It's why the NRL has never taken Perth seriously.

Most clubs in 95-97 were drawing crowds under 9k. That was 22 years ago and Australia, and especially Perth are a very different place. You love to live in the past, its the future we are concerned with. This season games featuring Broncos on FTA draw an overall metro avg of only 20k more viewers. So if Perth gets 30k new viewers overall for FTA games then it'll be more than Brisbane's delivering this year! Reality is Perth will likely fill the STV Sunday night game and the addition of Perth brings that ninth game to sell, or would have done if Vlandys hadn't gifted Fox a 7 year deal.

 

[Perth Red]

The Storm are still in the top half of the NRL for attendance. TV ratings are strong and I doubt the broadcast money would be as high without them. Having a team in the second largest city is a selling point for national TV companies and advertisers.


I don't know what the deal is with juniors, someone at ground level in Melbourne would need to give some insight on that.

The deal is NRL has done little to invest in growing them. Its a simple $'s in numbers out ratio. Ask AFL in NSW and Qland. We've had two clubs this year had to withdraw because they cant afford insurances and kit. not becuase they are short of kids wanting to play. That is why the game isnt growing at grass roots in any state but especially in those states that are competing with AFL in its heartland.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The Storm are still in the top half of the NRL for attendance. TV ratings are strong and I doubt the broadcast money would be as high without them. Having a team in the second largest city is a selling point for national TV companies and advertisers.


I don't know what the deal is with juniors, someone at ground level in Melbourne would need to give some insight on that.

What evidence is there that TV ratings for Storm are strong in Melbourne?

Perth Red always brings up the 93,000 people in Melbourne who tuned in to watch the Storm vs Broncos match on the main channel. That is NOT a strong rating in a metro area of 5,000,000.

Brissie metro has 2,500,000 and the Lions are able to average over 40,000 on 7mate, which is roughly the same on a per capita basis on a secondrary channel.

Roy Masters revealed that the Lions and Suns draw the lowest viewingerships on FTA and Pay TV out of all the AFL and NRL clubs in their respective cities. That's what the Storm are in par with. Unlike the Suns wnd Lions, who have been bottom feeders over the last decade, the Storm are almost always winning.

Most of the Storm's fans and TV viewers are Queenslanders who don't even live in Victoria.

Only 3,500 people play the game across Victoria.
Ch9 said Brissie2 would bring in money. Perth wouldn't.

Media analyst Colin Smith said Brissie 2 and Brissie 3 will bring in money. He didn't even mention Perth. So there's an expert agreeing with me and disagreeing with Perth Red.

 

[mongoose]

What evidence is there that TV ratings for Storm are strong in Melbourne?

Perth Red always brings up the 93,000 people in Melbourne who tuned in to watch the Storm vs Broncos match on the main channel. That is NOT a strong rating in a metro area of 5,000,000.

Brissie metro has 2,500,000 and the Lions are able to average over 40,000 on 7mate, which is roughly the same on a per capita basis on a secondrary channel.

Roy Masters revealed that the Lions and Suns draw the lowest viewingerships on FTA and Pay TV out of all the AFL and NRL clubs in their respective cities. That's what the Storm are in par with. Unlike the Suns wnd Lions, who have been bottom feeders over the last decade, the Storm are almost always winning.

Most of the Storm's fans and TV viewers are Queenslanders who don't even live in Victoria.

Only 3,500 people play the game across Victoria.

93,000 on top of whoever else is watching in NSW and QLD is good though. If it was 2 sydney teams would there be as many people watching? it's the total national ratings that are important, not ratings per city and certainly not per capita. You would rather have 1% of china than 30% of Siberia.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

No you are using, time and again and again, one measurement (that I would suggest has little to do with the Storms KPI's) to try and justify a myopic opinion that the games only expansion side hasn't been the overwhelming success that it actually has, and by inference that any future expansion of the game beyond two states is a waste of time and money.

TV ratings for Storm in Melbourne are on par or lower than the Lions when compared per capita. Lions ans Suns draw the lowest absolute figures out of the 34 NRL and AFL clubs. In defence of rhe Lions and Suns, their teams have generally sucked over the last 15 years and are stuck on 7mate. Lions get about 40,000 in a metro area of 2,500,000. Storm got a high of 93,000 for a game against the Broncos when televised on the main channel, but that's in a metro area of 5,000,000.

What do Storm average on 9Gem? 70k? 60k? 50k?

Oy 3,500 people play the game in Victoria. You cannot say that's down to the NRL. People don't need a development officer to knock on their door and carry them to their local club. Peoe arr capable of doing that thmselves if they want to play. They don't play because they don't like the game.

Most clubs in 95-97 were drawing crowds under 9k. That was 22 years ago and Australia, and especially Perth are a very different place. You love to live in the past, its the future we are concerned with.

I had a look at the figures.12 of 20 teams averaged more tham 10,000 in 1996.

Broncos 23,712
Warriors 20,126
Cowboys 19,366
Knights 17,475
Roosters 17,060
Crushers 13,016
Sea Eagles 12,519
Dragons 11,167
Eels 11,113
Bears 10,963
Sharks 10,515
Raiders 10,440

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/1996.html

In 1995 11 of 20 teams averaged more than 10,000.

Broncos 35,902
Warriors 26,450
Cowboys 21,670
Knights 21,215
Crushers 21,029
Raiders 15,683
Sea Eagles 14,722
Reds 13,390
Sharks 11,901
Bears 11,514
Bulldogs 11,341

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/1995.html

This season games featuring Broncos on FTA draw an overall metro avg of only 20k more viewers. So if Perth gets 30k new viewers overall for FTA games then it'll be more than Brisbane's delivering this year! Reality is Perth will likely fill the STV Sunday night game and the addition of Perth brings that ninth game to sell, or would have done if Vlandys hadn't gifted Fox a 7 year deal.

Don't be an idiot.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

93,000 on top of whoever else is watching in NSW and QLD is good though. If it was 2 sydney teams would there be as many people watching? it's the total national ratings that are important, not ratings per city and certainly not per capita. You would rather have 1% of china than 30% of Siberia.

Around 173k watch in Brissie when Broncos play. When Cowboys or Titans play the average in Brissie is 157k. When no Queensland team plays the average is only 107k.

93,000 in Melbourne on the main channel is BAD! Ch9 could have gotten triple that by running a 1980s movie. The advertising rate for those 93,000 viewers would have been tiny.

Per capita does count as it shows what percentage of the population are watching. Advertisers want to know that their product is reaching a significant portion of the population.

Ch9 would benefit far more from Brissie having 4 teams than by just having 2 there and one in Adelaide, NZ and Perth. Put a Brissie team on a Thur, Fri, and Sun and the ratings would be up around 170k. Far more than when no Queensland team is playing.

The highest rating match in Melbourne last year was 68,000 in Rd 1, Melbourne vs Brisbane. There wouldn't have beem any fumbleball on at the time, which would have boosted the number.

https://tvblackbox.com.au/page/2019/10/08/2019-10-8-2019-nrl-season-by-the-numbers/

 

[The Great Dane]

You can't have it both ways - you can't declare club despised throughout Brisbane & then say it'll have no rivalries. Dolphins one of the most well known brands in qld - they'll have strong rivalry with all qld clubs.
That's problem with Titans it's a plastic entity that fans of other clubs have no interest in seeing & it shows in away attendance's.

Firstly, I didn't declare them despised throughout Brisbane, and whether or not a club is generally despised by the wider fan base has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not other clubs are in "rivalries" with them.

Just because you declare that the Dolphins will have "rivalries" with the other Qld clubs doesn't make it true, and you've got no evidence, or rational reason, to believe that they will be more inclined to get into rivalries with them anymore than any other new club from Brisbane/Qld.

Once boiled down you are basically arguing that the Dolphins will be better at creating 'rivalries' simply because they are older, and frankly there's no objective reason why that is the case.

The Titans is a massive digression so I'll only address this once, but every brand starts out as "plastic", and the the only problem with the Titans is that they have been chronically poorly managed.
If the Titans come out in 07 and kick arse for the next decade then they'd have demanded everyone's attention whether or not their brand had history or not, the Storm, 90s-00s Broncos, and Raiders in the 90s prove as much.

You have no idea. Afl matches in Sydney averaged 25k this weekend. RL teams in Perth & Adelaide would struggle to match that. Melbourne Storm certainly never get that number.
When Broncos going good they get 250k. More Brisbane content will see higher ratings.

This doesn't really address my point at all, and is just pivoting away from the initial argument.