Redcliffe put their hand up

[flippikat]

2 SS
2 R
8 B

there will also be a 9th B game against the B Buttholes.

I'm wary of any team splitting home games between 3 or more venues. It just veers off into a Tigers scenario. Especially if the small suburban/boutique/heritage grounds have a third (or more) of the home games.

This Brisbane 2 expansion has the potential to set a template for Brisbane 3 to follow.. and maybe even a way forward for Sydney clubs in the 21st century. Why make the same mistakes as others have?

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Fijians and Papuans have the perfect attributes to play in the centres and on the wing, but they haven't kicked on as playmaking and organising halfbacks/five-eighths. It takes years of playing against the best to develop the awareness and skillset required to be a quality match winning halfback/five-eighth. Ditto for the fullback position. A quality fullback is just as vital as they organise the defensive line.

No Probs, we'll take their backs and wheel out James Maloney and Benji Marshall in the halves! They've got years left in em..

As for fullback - isn't Stanley Gene still getting around? Throw him in there - the man can do anything, play anywhere.

Solved!

 

[mongoose]

My point is it's hypocritical for Canberra fans to demand Sydney clubs be given the chop based on "limited appeal" when the exact same argument can be made about the Raiders.

Don't get me wrong, I am not against the Raiders and would hate to see them gone. AwFuL, Big Bash, Sheffield Shield, NBL, Netball and the NSL or whatever it's called these days don't deem Canberra to be worthy of having its own team. We keep hearing Dane and you going on about how these leagues have teams in Adelaide and Perth and why we must too. Well they don't have Canberra, so if you reckon we should take our cues from them then why keep the Raiders?

I am not for chopping teams or relocation necessarily, however if relocation is going to happen it has to be a Sydney club. Why would you relocate Canberra, Melbourne or Gold Coast when you are trying to increase your national footprint? The A League, Super netball, Big Bash don't have teams in Canberra because if you started from scratch you would put teams in the bigger capital cities first with maybe 2 each in Sydney and Melbourne, which is exactly what those 3 competitions have done. If NRL started from scratch tomorrow there is no way in hell they would put NINE clubs in Sydney, It would be madness.
The NRL/NSWRL expanded in its own unique way over many decades. Canberra, Illawarra and Newcastle were next cities out from Sydney so they all came in the 80s. Before that it was a Sydney only comp. Doesn't mean we have to keep putting suburban and small regional teams dotted around Sydney and Brisbane. The NRL should be looking at clubs in the major capitals that don't have teams, because why not? It's a billion dollar product, it's very marketable game and not everyone in those cities loves AFL or wants to follow the West Coast Eagles or Adelaide Crowes when they are at the bottom of the AFL ladder. You bank on those swing supporters who's attention will divert elsewhere when their main team is going shit. Brisbane has tonnes of Broncos fans who jump on the Lions bandwagon when the Broncos are out of the race.

 

[T-Boon]

I'm wary of any team splitting home games between 3 or more venues. It just veers off into a Tigers scenario. Especially if the small suburban/boutique/heritage grounds have a third (or more) of the home games.

This Brisbane 2 expansion has the potential to set a template for Brisbane 3 to follow.. and maybe even a way forward for Sydney clubs in the 21st century. Why make the same mistakes as others have?

I see your point, but I see they want to play games at Redcliffe and if that happens I still want them to play in SS because they need games and a team to support.
I think it could work in Brisbane in a way it does not work for the Tigers. The Tigers have multiple problems such as the joint venture itself and I still don't think they are necessarily worse off than they would be if they had just 1 home ground.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I am not for chopping teams or relocation necessarily, however if relocation is going to happen it has to be a Sydney club. Why would you relocate Canberra, Melbourne or Gold Coast when you are trying to increase your national footprint? The A League, Super netball, Big Bash don't have teams in Canberra because if you started from scratch you would put teams in the bigger capital cities first with maybe 2 each in Sydney and Melbourne, which is exactly what those 3 competitions have done. If NRL started from scratch tomorrow there is no way in hell they would put NINE clubs in Sydney, It would be madness.
The NRL/NSWRL expanded in its own unique way over many decades. Canberra, Illawarra and Newcastle were next cities out from Sydney so they all came in the 80s. Before that it was a Sydney only comp. Doesn't mean we have to keep putting suburban and small regional teams dotted around Sydney and Brisbane. The NRL should be looking at clubs in the major capitals that don't have teams, because why not? It's a billion dollar product, it's very marketable game and not everyone in those cities loves AFL or wants to follow the West Coast Eagles or Adelaide Crowes when they are at the bottom of the AFL ladder. You bank on those swing supporters who's attention will divert elsewhere when their main team is going shit. Brisbane has tonnes of Broncos fans who jump on the Lions bandwagon when the Broncos are out of the race.

The Australian Cricket Board had a team called the Canberra Comets in the List A competiton back in the 1990s. It failed.

NSL had the Canberra Cosmos in the 90s. It failed.

NBL had the Canberra Cannons in the 90s. It failed.

There's little sponsorship opportunities for a club based out of a small regional market that doesn't care much for the game. The Dolphins might be regional, but they are still within the Brisbane metro TV market, which makes them valuable to advertisers and the game's broadcast partners. It also provides local derbies that can draw fans from Brisbane and Gold Coast as it is within travelling distance. Canberra provides none of this.

A Sydney club is still within the Sydney metro TV market and provides local derbies. That makes each one of them valuable in ways a Perth and Adelaide team will never be.

Adelaide and Perth do not deserve teams at the expense of heartland areas that have invested in the game heavily for over 100 years. If the grassroots support in Adelaide and Perth isn't there then they don't deserve a team. Brisbane persevered with RL from 1909 until 1987, despite having its best players poached by the Poker machine funded Sydney clubs from the 1950s. Brisbane should be rewarded for its strong allegience to RL dispite the discrimination and challenges that were routinely put in its way.

Adelaide and Perth have never given a stuff about RL and have done nothing to deserve a team ahead of Brisbane and New Zealand.

Canberra has never done anything significant for the game and is still a fumbleball city. It doesn't deserve a spot in the national competiton if we're ranking cities by value and contributions to the sport. A NSW Cup team is probably appropriate for Canberra given its small size and preference for fumbleball and onionball.

No successful business punishes its most loyal customers while sucking up to useless parasites that will never buy their product. You won't see a business shut down stores where it is successful just so it can relocate them to a market that won't buy their product.

 

[The Great Dane]

Definately, dolphins will only work playing the vast majority at suncorp, and with a rebrand/significant tweak of the location part of their name

I do think Dolphins is a great mascot though

Yeah because if Cronulla just changed their name to the Sydney Sharks that would give them universal appeal in Sydney wouldn't it. . .

No matter how you change the geographical name the 'Dolphins' brand will always be intrinsically linked to Redcliffe and to the negative emotions the people that aren't Dolphins fans hold towards the club.

I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people to understand...

 

[The Great Dane]

My point is it's hypocritical for Canberra fans to demand Sydney clubs be given the chop based on "limited appeal" when the exact same argument can be made about the Raiders.

Don't get me wrong, I am not against the Raiders and would hate to see them gone. AwFuL, Big Bash, Sheffield Shield, NBL, Netball and the NSL or whatever it's called these days don't deem Canberra to be worthy of having its own team. We keep hearing Dane and you going on about how these leagues have teams in Adelaide and Perth and why we must too. Well they don't have Canberra, so if you reckon we should take our cues from them then why keep the Raiders?

LoL, nice strawman.

 

[T-Boon]

Yeah because if Cronulla just changed their name to the Sydney Sharks that would give them universal appeal in Sydney wouldn't it. . .

No matter how you change the geographical name the 'Dolphins' brand will always be intrinsically linked to Redcliffe and to the negative emotions the people that aren't Dolphins fans hold towards the club.

I don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people to understand...

Because it isn't true. Firstly "always" is an extremely long time. Secondly virtually nobody follows Qld Cup. There are no strong feelings. Thirdly if the Sharks moved to the new SFS and called themselves Sydney Sharks they would be massive within 20 years.

 

[mongoose]

The Australian Cricket Board had a team called the Canberra Comets in the List A competiton back in the 1990s. It failed.

NSL had the Canberra Cosmos in the 90s. It failed.

NBL had the Canberra Cannons in the 90s. It failed.

There's little sponsorship opportunities for a club based out of a small regional market that doesn't care much for the game. The Dolphins might be regional, but they are still within the Brisbane metro TV market, which makes them valuable to advertisers and the game's broadcast partners. It also provides local derbies that can draw fans from Brisbane and Gold Coast as it is within travelling distance. Canberra provides none of this.

A Sydney club is still within the Sydney metro TV market and provides local derbies. That makes each one of them valuable in ways a Perth and Adelaide team will never be.

Adelaide and Perth do not deserve teams at the expense of heartland areas that have invested in the game heavily for over 100 years. If the grassroots support in Adelaide and Perth isn't there then they don't deserve a team. Brisbane persevered with RL from 1909 until 1987, despite having its best players poached by the Poker machine funded Sydney clubs from the 1950s. Brisbane should be rewarded for its strong allegience to RL dispite the discrimination and challenges that were routinely put in its way.

Adelaide and Perth have never given a stuff about RL and have done nothing to deserve a team ahead of Brisbane and New Zealand.

Canberra has never done anything significant for the game and is still a fumbleball city. It doesn't deserve a spot in the national competiton if we're ranking cities by value and contributions to the sport. A NSW Cup team is probably appropriate for Canberra given its small size and preference for fumbleball and onionball.

No successful business punishes its most loyal customers while sucking up to useless parasites that will never buy their product. You won't see a business shut down stores where it is successful just so it can relocate them to a market that won't buy their product.

I'm just going to that you simply don't understand the concept of "expansion". You don't know shit about Canberra Rugby League either, it's put more money than most clubs into grassroots Rugby League all over country NSW. Won the inaugural NYC full of local and Riverina juniors against Brisbane's best. Yeah AFL and Union are reasonably strong too, shows that there is room for all codes in any city.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I'd prefer the 1-2 games to be on the Sunshine Coast instead of Redcliffe, to be part of a regional mindset, but I can live with 1-2 at Redcliffe. Hopefully they do trial matches on the Sunshine Coast.

Similar with a future Central-West team. If they can't/ won't do 1 or 2 games in Toowoomba, then 1 or 2 in Ipswich (the rest at Suncorp) is fine.

I don't really think the Sunshine Coast thing will happen for the following reasons in my opinion:

• The Sunshine Coast Falcons are a rival QLD Cup team
• The Melbourne Storm are linked with the Sunshine Coast which is a rival NRL team
• The Dolphins have their own stadium so no need to pay rent for any stadium other than Suncorp

I'm certainly all for NRL clubs taking matches to the Sunny Coast though.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I'm just going to that you simply don't understand the concept of "expansion". You don't know shit about Canberra Rugby League either, it's put more money than most clubs into grassroots Rugby League all over country NSW. Won the inaugural NYC full of local and Riverina juniors against Brisbane's best. Yeah AFL and Union are reasonably strong too, shows that there is room for all codes in any city.

Canberra Raiders fans calling for expansion at the expense of Brisbane, NZ and Sydney are saying, "Do as we say, not what we do". If you and Dane thought Adelaide and Perth were so important and true to your word about regional cities being unimportant, you would put your money where your mouth is and lead the rally for the Raiders to be relocated to Perth. I cannot take either of you seriously while you are unwilling to make the sacrifices that you demand from fans in Brisbane, NZ and Sydney.

Whether you like it or not, Brisbane and Sydney are vitally important to the game. Without Brisbane and Sydney there would be no NRL or State of Origin. Without either competition the game would be dead. New Zealand provides Test football. Adelaide and Perth will never offer that sort of prestige or value.

 

[Perth Red]

I don't really think the Sunshine Coast thing will happen for the following reasons in my opinion:

• The Sunshine Coast Falcons are a rival QLD Cup team
• The Melbourne Storm are linked with the Sunshine Coast which is a rival NRL team
• The Dolphins have their own stadium so no need to pay rent for any stadium other than Suncorp

I'm certainly all for NRL clubs taking matches to the Sunny Coast though.

Redcliffe would have to pay rent on Suncorp. They'd better be able to attract 25k plus crowds or that rent will be a killer for them.

 

[Perth Red]

Fans in Brisbane, Auckland and Sydney have at least one club they can follow if they are NRL fans. If you took Raiders out of Canberra who would NRL fans in Canberra be able to watch? Same with Perth and Adelaide, its the ultimate arrogance and selfishness to say we need another team in our city because we dont like the one we have when RL fans in other cities have no options at all to follow a local NRL club.

 

[The Great Dane]

Because it isn't true. Firstly "always" is an extremely long time. Secondly virtually nobody follows Qld Cup. There are no strong feelings. Thirdly if the Sharks moved to the new SFS and called themselves Sydney Sharks they would be massive within 20 years.

It is true, people just want to pretend that it isn't because it's convenient to do so, and you all have to ignore the examples I give you to do it. You don't need a large percentage of people to have a large impact, and there are definitely strong feelings, GROTD is proof of that.

Finally, if the Sharks moved to the SFS and called themselves the Sydney Sharks you wouldn't see a bunch of the other teams fans jump ship to support them, and the NRL can't afford to wait for generational change for a second Brisbane club to take root, especially not when it could be an overnight success if we did it right.

 

[The Great Dane]

I'm just going to that you simply don't understand the concept of "expansion". You don't know shit about Canberra Rugby League either, it's put more money than most clubs into grassroots Rugby League all over country NSW. Won the inaugural NYC full of local and Riverina juniors against Brisbane's best. Yeah AFL and Union are reasonably strong too, shows that there is room for all codes in any city.

He doesn't know anything about Canberra's sporting history either.

 

[The Great Dane]

Canberra Raiders fans calling for expansion at the expense of Brisbane, NZ and Sydney are saying, "Do as we say, not what we do". If you and Dane thought Adelaide and Perth were so important and true to your word about regional cities being unimportant, you would put your money where your mouth is and lead the rally for the Raiders to be relocated to Perth. I cannot take either of you seriously while you are unwilling to make the sacrifices that you demand from fans in Brisbane, NZ and Sydney.

Whether you like it or not, Brisbane and Sydney are vitally important to the game. Without Brisbane and Sydney there would be no NRL or State of Origin. Without either competition the game would be dead. New Zealand provides Test football. Adelaide and Perth will never offer that sort of prestige or value.

Why move the Raiders, a functioning and sustainable club that is the only club in it's market, when there're at least 3-4 clubs in Sydney at any one time that aren't sustainable?

If we were living in a world where all the Sydney clubs were huge successful clubs then I'd see your point that regional clubs aren't as valuable as metropolitan clubs and therefore, under certain circumstances, maybe one of them should make way for a more important and valuable metro club, but we simply don't live in that world.

 

[greenBV4]

Markets don't need to do anything to "deserve" a team - the NRL should be convincing those markets that they want a team! and then putting in the resources to grow

but no, whats apparently best for the NRL is to always play the defensive..

AFL is gaining a little bit of traction in QLD! Oh no! we need to have a bunch of teams in Brisbane to combat this!!
the AFL has 2 teams in Sydney?? Shit! we need to make sure we keep our 9 teams or the AFL will win!

Its ridiculous.

and yet noone stops to think how the AFL is gaining that traction (its by having teams and investment in the area btw). Perth, Adelaide, NZ cities out of Auckland all aren't going to grow without a dedicated team in the area.

 

[mongoose]

Canberra Raiders fans calling for expansion at the expense of Brisbane, NZ and Sydney are saying, "Do as we say, not what we do". If you and Dane thought Adelaide and Perth were so important and true to your word about regional cities being unimportant, you would put your money where your mouth is and lead the rally for the Raiders to be relocated to Perth. I cannot take either of you seriously while you are unwilling to make the sacrifices that you demand from fans in Brisbane, NZ and Sydney.

Whether you like it or not, Brisbane and Sydney are vitally important to the game. Without Brisbane and Sydney there would be no NRL or State of Origin. Without either competition the game would be dead. New Zealand provides Test football. Adelaide and Perth will never offer that sort of prestige or value.

I am all for a second Brisbane team I am just not certain Redcliffe Dolphins are the right choice. I am also all for a second NZ team however I think Perth has more priority... As for Sydney it is overcrowded, people like Andrew Johns and Phil Gould have even said as much. Gould even stated that he had grave concerns that some Sydney clubs could fold because of Covid, he tends to be dramatic though. But why would he be so concerned about Sydney clubs? maybe because they have an unsustainable business model and cannibalize each other for sponsors, players and fans?

When the Raiders are asking NRL HQ for handouts and getting sub 10k crowds again then sure, maybe they should look at relocating.

 

[greenBV4]

Also re: derbies -
It gets to a point were you dilute a market with so many teams that derbies end up become too frequent and eventually pointless. Does Manly have a big rival derbie with Canterbury? Roosters with the Sharks? Penrith and Souths? not really. By having 8.5 teams in the one city you lose the big cross-city derby games that other codes have with 2 - 3 teams.
Bar a few, most of the Sydney teams don't have any bigger of a rivalry with other Sydney teams than some teams outside of Sydney do

 

[Perth Red]

Why move the Raiders, a functioning and sustainable club that is the only club in it's market, when there're at least 3-4 clubs in Sydney at any one time that aren't sustainable?

If we were living in a world where all the Sydney clubs were huge successful clubs then I'd see your point that regional clubs aren't as valuable as metropolitan clubs and therefore, under certain circumstances, maybe one of them should make way for a more important and valuable metro club, but we simply don't live in that world.

Its staggering to see the FC losses of some clubs like the eels over the last 5 years. It amounts to over $25million! Not saying we should get rid of eels but if it was a pure business world then youd be hard pressed to make a business case for continuing it!

Eels losses: $12 million in 2016, $10 million in 2017, $4 million in 2018. Covid is anticipated to see eels lose $7mill this year. Sadly RL's financial viability model hasn't changed since the 80's and unless you have a LC to prop you up your in trouble. Hence why the talk of Brisbane2 is all being based around who has the biggest LC, yet again!