What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Redcliffe put their hand up

parrawentyfan

Juniors
Messages
583
Its interesting that the existing bids don't really overlap.

Dolphins in the North. Jets in the West/SW. Firehawks in the East. Broncos in the centre.

Sometimes I've wondered if we are better off going for 'saturation' with many small teams instead a few big teams. Eg. your team may not be a huge multinational corporation but there will inevitably be top flight footy a stones throw away.

This would mean a whole bucket load of teams many at lower quality. Think more minor league baseball than NFL. I wouldn't necessarily be unhappy with 50 teams averaging 5-10k than 20 averaging 20k. Room for Perth/Adelaide/etc but not denying suburban bids.
 
Messages
3,389
Its interesting that the existing bids don't really overlap.

Dolphins in the North. Jets in the West/SW. Firehawks in the East. Broncos in the centre.

Sometimes I've wondered if we are better off going for 'saturation' with many small teams instead a few big teams. Eg. your team may not be a huge multinational corporation but there will inevitably be top flight footy a stones throw away.

This would mean a whole bucket load of teams many at lower quality. Think more minor league baseball than NFL. I wouldn't necessarily be unhappy with 50 teams averaging 5-10k than 20 averaging 20k. Room for Perth/Adelaide/etc but not denying suburban bids.
Great post. If all 3 are added over the next 15 years then it would really hurt the other codes. Two games at Lang Park each weekend would make RL a real money maker for the Queensland government. They would have no reason to invest in fumbleball or onionball.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
42,768
Its interesting that the existing bids don't really overlap.

Dolphins in the North. Jets in the West/SW. Firehawks in the East. Broncos in the centre.

Sometimes I've wondered if we are better off going for 'saturation' with many small teams instead a few big teams. Eg. your team may not be a huge multinational corporation but there will inevitably be top flight footy a stones throw away.

This would mean a whole bucket load of teams many at lower quality. Think more minor league baseball than NFL. I wouldn't necessarily be unhappy with 50 teams averaging 5-10k than 20 averaging 20k. Room for Perth/Adelaide/etc but not denying suburban bids.

problem is you would end up with a two tier comp, even more so than now! Clubs need to be generating $26-30million a year. Nrl covers $13mill of that. Sponsors and corporates around $5-7mill, that leaves around $6-10mill that needs to be covered by fanbase or external revenue. Having small clubs playing in front of sub 10k crowds leaves gaping holes in revenue and financial sustainability.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
42,768
Great post. If all 3 are added over the next 15 years then it would really hurt the other codes. Two games at Lang Park each weekend would make RL a real money maker for the Queensland government. They would have no reason to invest in fumbleball or onionball.

there isn’t the supporter base for 4 nrl clubs in brisbane.
 
Messages
3,389
there isn’t the supporter base for 4 nrl clubs in brisbane.
There might be in 15 or 20 years with the population boom the area is set to experience.

Dolphins, Tigers and Jets could easily amass a supporter base of 15k to 20k each with the right promotion. They would be the only promotional sporting clubs within their market, which would help bring in support from people 2ho otherwise wouldn't be watching RL due to the Broncos not representing them.

It's like saying there's no support in Perth for a team. There is more than enough support should the game market itself properly and provide the new team with the resources to grow.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
42,768
There might be in 15 or 20 years with the population boom the area is set to experience.

Dolphins, Tigers and Jets could easily amass a supporter base of 15k to 20k each with the right promotion. They would be the only promotional sporting clubs within their market, which would help bring in support from people 2ho otherwise wouldn't be watching RL due to the Broncos not representing them.

It's like saying there's no support in Perth for a team. There is more than enough support should the game market itself properly and provide the new team with the resources to grow.

well let’s talk on 20 years then if the population has grown and the two clubs are succesful
 
Messages
3,389
well let’s talk on 20 years then if the population has grown and the two clubs are succesful
The 18th and 19th teams should be from NZ and Perth, with Brisbane 3 the 20th. That would give the game a strong footprint. A Sydney team might be forced to relocate to Adelaide. Brisbane 4 might very well be 30 years away or not at all, but we should aim to have at least 3 in Brisbane, 2 in NZ and 1 in Perth within the next 20 years.
 

Santino Patane

Juniors
Messages
107
Its interesting that the existing bids don't really overlap.

Dolphins in the North. Jets in the West/SW. Firehawks in the East. Broncos in the centre.

Sometimes I've wondered if we are better off going for 'saturation' with many small teams instead a few big teams. Eg. your team may not be a huge multinational corporation but there will inevitably be top flight footy a stones throw away.

This would mean a whole bucket load of teams many at lower quality. Think more minor league baseball than NFL. I wouldn't necessarily be unhappy with 50 teams averaging 5-10k than 20 averaging 20k. Room for Perth/Adelaide/etc but not denying suburban bids.
Actually, all three overlap. All three have publicly stated that they will be a greater Brisbane team focussed on appealing to the wider area, not their traditional QRL areas. Locality/Suburban bids will get thrown out by the NRL and rightfully so- the Broncos have their support from all over the metropolitan area. Any new successful team will need to draw from everywhere from Logan to Caboolture and out to Ipswich. All three bids know this, and that’s why they are attacking it this way. Any other thoughts are purely wishful thinking/thought exercises that no one in power would actually entertain.

Over saturating the comp is a sure fire way to kill it and will never happen. There’s limited resources (both financial and talent wise) that can be pulled for it. Stretch too far and you will have games that are a step above amateur and clubs going insolvent constantly. Minor League Baseball can do it as they have a population tens of times larger than Rugby League internationally. To me, 18 is the magic number (for at least 50 years).
 
Messages
3,389
East Coast Dolphins would be a more inclusive name than North Coast. I'd love it if they became Sunshine Coast Dolphins just to rub it into Gold Coast, establishing a strong rivalry from the start that benefits both clubs. Gold Coast did want to be called the Dolphins.
 

MugaB

Bench
Messages
3,223
Agreed, this was the first time the idea of the 2 teams coming from SEQ made sense to me. I’m still all for Perth being #18 but if I were to be completely selfish for my region, I think this article’s option could actually work.
Gotta be where the teams bid that have players playing already, no point in bringing in a team from alice springs, but the players draw from the rest of the league to prop up its 30man squad plus reserve grade and youths below it.
Picking bids that are flush with players already, will go a long way better than a brand new area that has f'all nrl talent stemming from its base, so either dolphins or jets for me... maybe both like the article suggests..
Its reminiscent of most expansion done pre 80s, where areas were promoted to the 1st grade
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
42,768
Its interesting that the existing bids don't really overlap.

Dolphins in the North. Jets in the West/SW. Firehawks in the East. Broncos in the centre.

Sometimes I've wondered if we are better off going for 'saturation' with many small teams instead a few big teams. Eg. your team may not be a huge multinational corporation but there will inevitably be top flight footy a stones throw away.

This would mean a whole bucket load of teams many at lower quality. Think more minor league baseball than NFL. I wouldn't necessarily be unhappy with 50 teams averaging 5-10k than 20 averaging 20k. Room for Perth/Adelaide/etc but not denying suburban bids.

yeh having 4 teams drawing 12k each is better than a club with 35k and 25k attending lol who’d want a big business with lots of customers when you can over saturate to the point non of them are viable?

If I could change anything it would be somehow capping spending so clubs didn’t need to generate $30mill with the grant to be competitive. If we could get club spending down to around $20million we’d find it much easier to bring in more clubs who would be sustainable.
 
Messages
3,389
Gotta be where the teams bid that have players playing already, no point in bringing in a team from alice springs, but the players draw from the rest of the league to prop up its 30man squad plus reserve grade and youths below it.
Picking bids that are flush with players already, will go a long way better than a brand new area that has f'all nrl talent stemming from its base, so either dolphins or jets for me... maybe both like the article suggests..
Its reminiscent of most expansion done pre 80s, where areas were promoted to the 1st grade
I used to think like you on this topic, but the ratings from Melbourne for last year's GF changed my mind. Without Melbourne Storm we wouldn't have so many people from Victoria tuning in to SOO, Tests and GFs. Those viewers have increased the value of the broadcast deal.

Sport these days falls under the "entertainment business" banner, so the pre-80s model is no longer relevant. We've maxed out the Sydney market, so there's no growth there. The Brisbane market can provide more money and possibly more viewers through another 2 teams, but there's a limit on how much it can add. If we really want to grow the base so that we can retain our position over the next 20 or 30 years then we're going to have to bite the bullet and expand into Adelaide and Perth. It won't be easy and will involve some pain for Sydney fans who lose their teams to other cities, but that's an unfortunate consequence of the NSWRL going out of its way to kill every other RL competition in the country so that it could become the only player in the game. It's doubtful that the Australian market can support more than 18 teams, so we're going to have to rationalise Sydney to grow the pie. Despite being the largest city in Australia, Sydney on its own cannot compete with AwFuL and is ceding ground to it every day because people who aren't rusted-on RL fans perceive it as a low-scale suburban competition. People want to be part of large brands, not also-rans. Sydney and Brisbane combined aren't enough to compete with AwFuL. We'll need to grow a base in every major market, and with spots limited, that means 2 or 3 Sydney will have to take one for the team and relocate so that the game can survive.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
42,768
Redcliffe Dolphins boss Tony Murphy says only an "unbelievable bid" could top theirs as the Australian Rugby League Commission officially welcomed expressions of interest to become the NRL's 17th team.
Redcliffe are up against a combined Ipswich Jets-Brisbane Bombers bid and the centrally-based Brisbane Firehawks - backed by Easts Tigers - to become the state's fourth team.

South Sydney coach Wayne Bennett has been linked to a Brisbane return in some capacity to the Jets and Firehawks.

That would add spice to the inner-city rivalry at the heart of the ARLC's desire to bolster the region with another outfit from 2023.

But, boasting an "NRL ready" facility and well-established leagues club and business model, Murphy says it's a heartland that deserves a team of its own.

"I don't worry about anybody else (other bids) I just worry about what we can do and I believe we've got the best bid," the Redcliffe Leagues Club chief executive said.
"We need to be successful from day one, we are a true rugby league club and we're very successful in the Queensland cup - we're the most successful team in the state league.

"We certainly know how to run a rugby league club."

Broncos coach Kevin Walters grew up in Ipswich but is sitting on the fence as the club braces for the introduction of its next rival.

"I've got no problem (with expansion in Brisbane), think it's great for the game, for coaches, administration and the rivalry will be something else as well," he said.

The Dolphins would host most of their fixtures at Suncorp Stadium with a handful in Redcliffe, while the Jets and Firehawks would play home games exclusively out of Suncorp Stadium.

There are claims another team in Brisbane would be worth $50 million to the code but Queensland Rugby League chairman Bruce Hatcher has fears about saturating the market and wants to see proof before investing.

But the NRL and ARLC are confident they can display that with a decision expected as soon as next month.
Dolphins confident as NRL expansion looms (msn.com)
 

Attachments

  • upload_2021-5-7_16-4-30.png
    upload_2021-5-7_16-4-30.png
    68 bytes · Views: 5

Pippen94

Juniors
Messages
444
I used to think like you on this topic, but the ratings from Melbourne for last year's GF changed my mind. Without Melbourne Storm we wouldn't have so many people from Victoria tuning in to SOO, Tests and GFs. Those viewers have increased the value of the broadcast deal.

Sport these days falls under the "entertainment business" banner, so the pre-80s model is no longer relevant. We've maxed out the Sydney market, so there's no growth there. The Brisbane market can provide more money and possibly more viewers through another 2 teams, but there's a limit on how much it can add. If we really want to grow the base so that we can retain our position over the next 20 or 30 years then we're going to have to bite the bullet and expand into Adelaide and Perth. It won't be easy and will involve some pain for Sydney fans who lose their teams to other cities, but that's an unfortunate consequence of the NSWRL going out of its way to kill every other RL competition in the country so that it could become the only player in the game. It's doubtful that the Australian market can support more than 18 teams, so we're going to have to rationalise Sydney to grow the pie. Despite being the largest city in Australia, Sydney on its own cannot compete with AwFuL and is ceding ground to it every day because people who aren't rusted-on RL fans perceive it as a low-scale suburban competition. People want to be part of large brands, not also-rans. Sydney and Brisbane combined aren't enough to compete with AwFuL. We'll need to grow a base in every major market, and with spots limited, that means 2 or 3 Sydney will have to take one for the team and relocate so that the game can survive.

You can't support argument that Sydney market is overcrowded. Regional teams struggle more & don't bring in large fan bases or broadcasting dealing. Melbourne has 9 (?) Afl teams, London has many premier league sides & so do many cities in sporting leagues throughout world.
Sydney being biggest market creates more opportunity for sponsorship & business agreements. The Sydney content provides to broadcasters is only reason NRL still exists. Remove the big brands & league is f**ked.
There's a strong argument thata North Sydney team ticks more boxes than any other potential expansion club.
 
Messages
3,389
You can't support argument that Sydney market is overcrowded. Regional teams struggle more & don't bring in large fan bases or broadcasting dealing. Melbourne has 9 (?) Afl teams, London has many premier league sides & so do many cities in sporting leagues throughout world.
Sydney being biggest market creates more opportunity for sponsorship & business agreements. The Sydney content provides to broadcasters is only reason NRL still exists. Remove the big brands & league is f**ked.
There's a strong argument thata North Sydney team ticks more boxes than any other potential expansion club.
Sea Eagles should look at marketing themselves as North Sydney Sea Eagles so they can grow a wider fanbase. Big CBD in North Sydney for them to latch onto if they market themselves correctly.

Big crowds for AwFuL clubs in Melbourne are the reason the city has so many clubs, and despite this, AwFuL have tried to relocate 1 or 2 of them.

London is about 3 times as big as Sydney and its support for soccer dwarfs Sydney's support for RL.

Imagine how big the Dragons could be if they had 560k residents of Southern Sydney (Georges River Council, Bayside Council and Sutherland Shire) all to themselves?

Wollongong is 1 and a half hours away from Kogarah Oval by public transport, so it makes sense to relocate Sharks and market the larger, more popular brand of Dragons to the future generations of Sutherland Shire.
 

MugaB

Bench
Messages
3,223
Imagine how big the Dragons could be if they had 560k residents of Southern Sydney (Georges River Council, Bayside Council and Sutherland Shire) all to themselves?

Wollongong is 1 and a half hours away from Kogarah Oval by public transport, so it makes sense to relocate Sharks and market the larger, more popular brand of Dragons to the future generations of Sutherland Shire.
Or do niether, since the sharks are already in their area and can pull t hise bayside councils to them, as wollongong is dragons catchment, all this moving around, has your head spinning, dragons are only in kogarah for the "sydney St.George" supporters and of the sponsorship opportunities, they couldn't survive without it only being in Wollongong fulltime. Its the same argument as Wests Tigers moving away from balmainor Ashfield, its where they make their money, being a fulltume Campbelltown team doesn't help their funds.

Manlys only chance to do anything is play at least half their home games in Gosford.
Not sure why you need to harp on about the sharks, they arw flush with cash, own their stadium, and have a great junior system, and catchment
 
Top