Rejoice in Hagan's pain!!!

[Jobdog]

lol same... maybe he read a does as a doesn't? sh*t happens

I think thats exactly what happened. Needed to take my own advice and re-read posts methinks

 

[Jobdog]

Well at least you have owned up to it....lol

Well, I coulda tried and backpedalled, but discovered I'd dug a big enough hole so it was best I didn't. It's all Karma's fault for trying to defend Hagan in the first place

 

[Medievalknight]

Poor Karma...........now he,s getting blamed like BIHK used to (for things he didn,t do ):lol:

 

[Karmawave]

It's all Karma's fault for trying to defend Hagan in the first place

However, thats the whole point, I'm not really defending him as a coach at all.

I think some of the criticism is a bit unwarranted, and I think someone like Andrew Johns who calls Hagan a good coach goes a long way to suggesting he probably is!

BUT...

What irked me was the thought of people genuinely enjoying seeing a person ( any person, non football related, or whatever ) have problems or fail at something. To enjoy someone elses misery.

They are the sort of people who hate seeing someone win the lottery because it wasn't them.

The same people get enjoyment out of Andrew Johns being busted with drugs.

That attitude really p*sses me off. And there's alot of it in Australia, and there's a hell of a lot of it in Newcastle.

 

[Jobdog]

However, thats the whole point, I'm not really defending him as a coach at all.

I think some of the criticism is a bit unwarranted, and I think someone like Andrew Johns who calls Hagan a good coach goes a long way to suggesting he probably is!

BUT...

What irked me was the thought of people genuinely enjoying seeing a person ( any person, non football related, or whatever ) have problems or fail at something. To enjoy someone elses misery.

They are the sort of people who hate seeing someone win the lottery because it wasn't them.

The same people get enjoyment out of Andrew Johns being busted with drugs.

That attitude really p*sses me off. And there's alot of it in Australia, and there's a hell of a lot of it in Newcastle.

In fairness, I don't think there's a lot of it in Newcastle tbbh. Sure, it might be the case with someone like Clint Newton and Michael Hagan, but by and large I disagree with your sentiment.

 

[Karmawave]

In fairness, I don't think there's a lot of it in Newcastle tbbh. Sure, it might be the case with someone like Clint Newton and Michael Hagan, but by and large I disagree with your sentiment.

Try asking Silverchairs Daniel Johns and Andrew Johns about tall poppy syndrome in Newcastle, let alone the countless numbers of Knights players who have been targets over the years...

Locals used to buy tickets to local Silverchair shows when they were younger just to boo them.

 

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

LOL.

Hate Hagan.

Lol @ jobber's misread.

I don't rejoice in his pain, i just wan't him gone.

 

[antonius]

Hagan is the luckiest man alive.
Called up from reserve grade to win a grandfinal winners ring.
Signed with Newcastle as a fringe firstgrader and played for years as the only playmaker in a side famous for having nothing when it comes to playmaking.
Got to fill the kings boots for qld, very very badly.
As a coach he got a ready made team with the world's best player to make him look good, and basically stuffed it. Anywhere bt Newcastle he would have been tarred and feathered and run out of town two years before he was, but the hometown press in Newcastle means the coach never gets dragged over the coals.
How he got another big contract at Parra is a mystery Sherlock Holmes couldn't solve, but he always comes up trumps does Hages.
I'd love to share a lottery ticket with him, because he has arsed his way through a brilliant career.
I'd like to write him off, but he will probably follow his brother into admin now and be the next Bulldogs CEO.

Roops post sums Hagan up perfectly. I would lay the credit for 2001 on the team Ryan developed and Johns leadership on the field, in his book (from memory) he actually pointed out the nerves being shown by the Eels players to his side. As for the game plan, I don't credit that to Hagan either, if you watch teams he's "coached" (I use the term loosely) they have no motivation at all (look at the Eels now) Johns was the motivator at Newcastle, when he wasn't round there was none.
Hagans basic fault is he's soft, he is unable to make the hard calls, that was demonstrated time and time again here in Newcastle, and it is again apparant at the Eels. I guarantee when he gets the heave ho from the Eels he'll struggle to get another gig.

 

[Jobdog]

To borrow Apey's idea - how about we have a co-coach. We'll take Hagan back from Parra, but Smith can coach us to the grand final, where Hagan will take over :sarcasm:

 

[roopy]

To borrow Apey's idea - how about we have a co-coach. We'll take Hagan back from Parra, but Smith can coach us to the grand final, where Hagan will take over :sarcasm:

If Hagan can convince Joey to start training now to lead s in the GF, that just could work.

 

[Danish Moo Cow]

The best thing about Hages is that he still pays rates up here.

 

[Hanscholo]

I can't understand why Newcastle fans have such an anti Hagan sentiment.

The guy coached us to a premiership. Whether or not he benefitted from the good work of the coaches preceeding him, is irrelevant.

His Grand Final game plan against the Eels was about as good as it gets, and with Andrew Johns following the plan to perfection, the Knights bought home the 2001 trophy against the odds.

Plain and simply, Hagan out coached Brian Smith to win in 2001. While Smith's mind games had the Eels wound up so tight, the Knights were confident, calm and relaxed - like their coach.

He might be too laid back, or too loyal to his players ( I personally don't see too much wrong with that by the way ), but he clearly can coach in the NRL.

Petty agendas against the guy comes across as big time lameness. While he was playing for a grand final spot last year, what were the Knights doing?

Typical of many Novocastrians. The tall poppy syndrome capital of Australia. To get enjoyment out of a former Knights player and premiership winning coach's sufferance is just about as dog act low as it gets. What sort of make up does one have to do that?

It was just the fact for me anyway, that he took a fantastic side and let it fall apart. He replaced players of their era like Kennedy and Tahu with people that were from park football or were fringe first graders. He gave us our only wooden spoon and turned us into a bottom 3 club. When he took over we were consistent top 4 and were able to challenge for the title every season, when he left we were wooden spoon favourites.

There were other circumstances involved sure...But Hages had the top job, his retention and hiring was appauling therefore its his responsibility.

Last thing is the 2001 GF. Parra were red hot favourites because they had such a great season. Have a look back now at the teams. One is full of internationals and rep players the other is full of workman like players. To me anyway when i look back at those two sides, the result was actually pretty straight forward, we just had a much better team.

 

[Karmawave]

To be fair Hanscholo, Ben Kennedy missed ALOT of football in his last couple of years at the Knights, and injury wise I can see why the Knights didn't want to pay the money he deserved for his status in the game. No one was to know he would all of a sudden become indestructible and hardly miss a game with the Eagles given the constant injury problems he had here at the Knights.

As for Tahu, at the time he was a big loss for us. At the Eels he had alot of injury issues and missed alot of football. The Knights were always going to struggle to match the money Tahu ( an international footballer ) could attract elsewhere when the club extended the contracts of Johns, Buderus etc. Tahu was an Australian centre, in a team where we had off contract Australian legends such as Johns, Buderus, Simpson. We can't keep them all as much as we'd like to.

Using recruitment / retention as an argument, you could also say that letting Anthony Tupou and Greg Bird go to other clubs out of juniors was some of the worst mistakes the club has made retention wise.

The benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing, and the tenuous financial position of the Knights, priorities in re-signing Johns, Buderus etc had as much to do with these decisions as anything Hagan did or didn't do. It wasn't like the door was shown to Timana Tahu because he wasn't wanted here - far from it.

 

[stuke]

No matter how bad things are in Newcastle, at least your players turn up to play every week.

they sure didn't turn up to play every week last year.

 

[BG]

If Hagan can convince Joey to start training now to lead s in the GF, that just could work.

Eggsackly... going out on a limb here but could the fact that the Eels were more tense going into the 2001 GF have less to do with coaching and a teeny weeny bit more to do with the fact that they were a team of young talents with little big game experience coming up against a team chockers with rep players led by Joey?

 

[Frederick]

they sure didn't turn up to play every week last year.

They weren't our players - they were the remains of Hagans reign of terror

 

[Serc]

To be fair Hanscholo, Ben Kennedy missed ALOT of football in his last couple of years at the Knights, and injury wise I can see why the Knights didn't want to pay the money he deserved for his status in the game. No one was to know he would all of a sudden become indestructible and hardly miss a game with the Eagles given the constant injury problems he had here at the Knights.

I disagree - our facilities across the board were poor and Kennedy was a product of this, I think going to the (comparatively) top class care and rehabilitation services at Manly did him the world of good.

Got it in one there Freddo!

 

[BG]

they sure didn't turn up to play every week last year.

They were competing well until a few of them were told that they weren't going to simply be handed oversized new contracts whether or not they were willing to embrace new training techniques and take on more responsibility in the post-Joey era. Then a worse injury toll than 2005 hit us and we had a team comprising players who were more interested in whinging than tackling and a bunch of rookies and second-raters.

 

[Hanscholo]

I think Kennedy's value when he went to Manly speaks for itself. He was a heavily injured player but worth his weight in gold. Manly idolise the bloke, and its not hard to see why. Who did we replace him with?? Kurk Reynoldson, for downright stupid money.

I dont dislike Hagan or wish ill of him. For people who do, then there is just a lot of cannon fodder out there right now. He has had 8 seasons as a first grade coach, 2 good years and 6 pathetic years. The two good years correspond to him taking over a strong club, people will make of that what they will.

 

[Karmawave]

I don't get why its always the quality of the players that make a great coach ( as everyone seems to be claiming in regards to our 2001 GF win ), but when a team performs poorly, its always the coach's fault and not the quality of the players.

I find that too hard to believe.