Repression of rugby league : Information to share and discussion.

[Stallion]

The article speaks of the change from rugby league being ad-hoc in those elite schools to now having organised seasons and inter-school competitions. So I'm confident in saying it's more than a token gesture.

Any chance you could foward this article to the thread? It will be of great benefit! I'm. encouraged by your information. Just would appreciate sighting it and reading the details. Many thanks in advance.

 

[Stallion]

These are all fair points. While there may be a correlation to Sunday games and a downward trend in playing numbers is too hard to confirm or deny. I cannot argue either way on that matter sorry.

It is definitely worth further analysis and in-depth research. I played junior footy in the bush and it was always on Sunday's. The team I play for folded last year (20 years after I last played for them), but that was due to a lack of funds and a reduction in player numbers. Rugby Union has never been played in that town, while AFL has been growing the whole time.

I think (my opinion only) that the competitions outside the NRL have been largely left to their own devices since the Super League war, with little assistance provided by the NRL.

Perhaps the moving of games to Sunday's was done as a cost-cutting exercise? With so many sports being played on Saturday's as opposed to Sunday's, venues may charge a higher rate for the premium Saturday to maximise their profits. League clubs may have chosen to play on Sunday's to minimise expenses given they are probably running on tighter budgets now.? That is purely an idea or suggestion, but by no means is there any evidence behind such a thing. Just an example of an outside influence that may have forced that decision.

It definitely warrants an open-minded, unbiased investigation though.

My local district club has historical rights to the ground. So they get to choose in the initial draw which days they would like to play. Out of all the Newcastle inner city clubs, this club is the most generous on staging Saturday home games. Unfortunately the other inner city clubs stage less games on a Saturday. One of them has no Saturday games. Coincidentally a relatively new union club is gaining juniors each year from this particular clubs area. ( Central CharlestownRlfc/Southern Beaches union).The outer city clubs all play on Saturdays (Cessnock, KurriKurri, Maitland and Macquarie )They have very healthy junior numbers and they flow onto grade.

 

[Timmah]

Any chance you could foward this article to the thread? It will be of great benefit! I'm. encouraged by your information. Just would appreciate sighting it and reading the details. Many thanks in advance.

Rugby in for the fight as league makes historic foray into key schools

Rugby Australia officials say they will relish the challenge after rugby league made an historic foray into a group of Brisbane private schools that had previously offered union and soccer as their sole winter codes.

For the first time sinces its formation 20 years ago, the Associated Independent Colleges (AIC) announced they would offer league and AFL in a formal competition on a two-year trial basis.

The move will see some of the city's biggest high schools, including inner-city St Laurence's College, Iona College at Wynnum and Marist College Ashgrove, join the rugby league stable, exposing thousands of potential extra players to the QRL and NRL.

A number of the schools already played some league in limited competition but the establishment of a season now leaves the exclusive GPS ranks as the only group of schools not to offer both codes to students.

It was correctly perceived as a win for rugby league while others lamented it as another blow for union, which continues to struggle at the elite level and has much work to be done with its pathways and junior systems.

But RA's national recruitment and coaching manager Cameron Tradell said it was a welcome spur to a code that needed to 'up its game' in the schools sector, which the game leans on more heavily than any of its contempories.

"We heard about this happening and we understand as schools expand into other sports. We have to up our game and we believe we are. The ability for us to compete in that market on that broader scale is really exciting for us," Tradell said.

Rugby would be offered in term two of next year's school calender, with league in term three. Tradell believes there is bound to be a crossover of students and the standard of schools rugby could only benefit from any improvements on the league front.

There is a new sense of urgency to reform the schools rugby sector as the depth of the Australian game continues to be exposed against top-shelf competition.

Traditions among schools and tinkering with semi-sacred competitions have made it a difficult juggling act but RA officials are quickly realising the game must expand beyond its old fiefdoms.

Tradell said the game continued to value its tradional heartland schools, which have produced busloads of Wallabies over the years, but if league could set foot in what was union country, it must do the same in the government sector.

"That doesn't mean we aren't supporting our key markets. Because we are, absolutely. But we also see huge opportunities in non-traditional schools. There's been an explosion with Sevens, particularly with the women's game.

"We're up for it."

The significance of league's move into some schools previously thought of as rugby strongholds has implications far beyond Brisbane, which remains rugby's second-biggest producer of talent behind Sydney.

Alarm bells have been ringing for some time among rugby fans as demographics shift greatly in schools that used to be highly competitive on the rugby field. The inclusion of league at the AIC schools was in fact driven by parents, not aspirational NRL officials keen to strike another blow.

RA has long been accused of having its head in the sand and taking its school system for granted. Now officials like Traddell say that's a thing of the past and the code is prepared to get in the fight, if not find a way to benefit from a resurgence of its major rival.

LINK: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...c-foray-into-key-schools-20180516-p4zfp2.html

 

[Stallion]

I think you need to look at a bigger picture mate.

Rugby League at Universities isn't that much of an issue. The students are adults and can play for whatever Rugby League team they want. Sure it's helpful if Uni's have League teams, but it's not vital.

Having the game in schools is more important, as that's where the initial skills and passion for the game begins. Get them early, look after them, nurture them, they'll stay with the game for life.

Trying to attract adults to the code who never really followed it, or were brought up on it is a vastly harder and less successful approach.

Nevertheless I thoroughly enjoyed my university playing days and believe it or not we had guys on our team that had only played union and wanted to play rugby league. And they did and loved it. Some were pretty good and loved the physicality moreso than in union. So the University comp is very important and another chance for students that have only been allowed to play union to play League. University RL is a good thing. Glad it still exists!

 

[Stallion]

Rugby in for the fight as league makes historic foray into key schools

Rugby Australia officials say they will relish the challenge after rugby league made an historic foray into a group of Brisbane private schools that had previously offered union and soccer as their sole winter codes.

For the first time sinces its formation 20 years ago, the Associated Independent Colleges (AIC) announced they would offer league and AFL in a formal competition on a two-year trial basis.

The move will see some of the city's biggest high schools, including inner-city St Laurence's College, Iona College at Wynnum and Marist College Ashgrove, join the rugby league stable, exposing thousands of potential extra players to the QRL and NRL.

A number of the schools already played some league in limited competition but the establishment of a season now leaves the exclusive GPS ranks as the only group of schools not to offer both codes to students.

It was correctly perceived as a win for rugby league while others lamented it as another blow for union, which continues to struggle at the elite level and has much work to be done with its pathways and junior systems.

But RA's national recruitment and coaching manager Cameron Tradell said it was a welcome spur to a code that needed to 'up its game' in the schools sector, which the game leans on more heavily than any of its contempories.

"We heard about this happening and we understand as schools expand into other sports. We have to up our game and we believe we are. The ability for us to compete in that market on that broader scale is really exciting for us," Tradell said.

Rugby would be offered in term two of next year's school calender, with league in term three. Tradell believes there is bound to be a crossover of students and the standard of schools rugby could only benefit from any improvements on the league front.

There is a new sense of urgency to reform the schools rugby sector as the depth of the Australian game continues to be exposed against top-shelf competition.

Traditions among schools and tinkering with semi-sacred competitions have made it a difficult juggling act but RA officials are quickly realising the game must expand beyond its old fiefdoms.

Tradell said the game continued to value its tradional heartland schools, which have produced busloads of Wallabies over the years, but if league could set foot in what was union country, it must do the same in the government sector.

"That doesn't mean we aren't supporting our key markets. Because we are, absolutely. But we also see huge opportunities in non-traditional schools. There's been an explosion with Sevens, particularly with the women's game.

"We're up for it."

The significance of league's move into some schools previously thought of as rugby strongholds has implications far beyond Brisbane, which remains rugby's second-biggest producer of talent behind Sydney.

Alarm bells have been ringing for some time among rugby fans as demographics shift greatly in schools that used to be highly competitive on the rugby field. The inclusion of league at the AIC schools was in fact driven by parents, not aspirational NRL officials keen to strike another blow.

RA has long been accused of having its head in the sand and taking its school system for granted. Now officials like Traddell say that's a thing of the past and the code is prepared to get in the fight, if not find a way to benefit from a resurgence of its major rival.

LINK: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...c-foray-into-key-schools-20180516-p4zfp2.html

Great stuff Timmah.So it's once again in QLD. Not NSW! I note it was a parent inspired initiative to have rugby league! Very interesting. Queensland the Sunshine state! So GPS is still a fortress against the playing of rugby league. Wonder if rugby league development people can look into this aspect of the school system? And its not as if anyone is stopping union being played at public or general Catholic schools. That point is important to note.

 

[madunit]

My local district club has historical rights to the ground. So they get to choose in the initial draw which days they would like to play. Out of all the Newcastle inner city clubs, this club is the most generous on staging Saturday home games. Unfortunately the other inner city clubs stage less games on a Saturday. One of them has no Saturday games. Coincidentally a relatively new union club is gaining juniors each year from this particular clubs area. ( Central CharlestownRlfc/Southern Beaches union).The outer city clubs all play on Saturdays (Cessnock, KurriKurri, Maitland and Macquarie )They have very healthy junior numbers and they flow onto grade.

So if Sunday footy is so bad, why did the club switch to playing on Sunday's?

Is it to allow some players to play in both codes? That is common in rural areas, where kids play every sport they can, as opposed to just 1 or 2.

 

[Timmah]

Great stuff Timmah.So it's once again in QLD. Not NSW! I note it was a parent inspired initiative to have rugby league! Very interesting. Queensland the Sunshine state! So GPS is still a fortress against the playing of rugby league. Wonder if rugby league development people can look into this aspect of the school system? And its not as if anyone is stopping union being played at public or general Catholic schools. That point is important to note.

Noting that this has happened in Queensland isn't a backdoor for you to suggest that it's completely shut out in NSW, there's no basis to support that.

 

[Stallion]

So if Sunday footy is so bad, why did the club switch to playing on Sunday's?

Is it to allow some players to play in both codes? That is common in rural areas, where kids play every sport they can, as opposed to just 1 or 2.

I've asked this very question. A good mate of mine (more in the club than I am) supported my entry into the committee. Without my knowledge (my mate was the secretary in 3025) he designated me to home games promotion officer. I enthusiastically took the task on. That year we had 5 Saturday home games me recommending that the club play Saturday football. We finished in the black by $14000 with first grade only coming 6th. The next year(and a new secretary ) a number of Saturday games were allocated during the rep season. These games were necessarily lost (due to replace commitments ) to Sunday's. So in effect instead of 6 Saturday games we had only 3. That year we won the comp and finished a $100 in the black with a $20000 bonus included from winning the GF. Once again the new secretary did the same thing with the draw and we lost 3 Saturday games and God knows how much in the red the clubs finances were! Last year I reduced my role through frustration and personal family losses(patents passing) and the club had 4 Saturdays and 4 Sundays. The same will. happen this year as well. What puzzles me that the league's club does well when we have Saturday games but no one turns up after the Sunday game. My mate who once was the secretary still shake his head in disbelief. I've decided to assist the club for Saturday games only and maybe set up a trivia night or something later in the season . But as you can see the evidence surgguests Saturday footy is good for the club. I suspect many of the football club executive are pensioners and therefore Sunday games suits their lifestyle. (in other words: bugger the players, league's club and fans)

 

[madunit]

So why did they move to Sunday? If it's so obvious that Saturday is better, why is there a persistance to play on Sunday's.

There must be a reason.

 

[Stallion]

So why did they move to Sunday? If it's so obvious that Saturday is better, why is there a persistance to play on Sunday's.

There must be a reason.

My mate (the former secretary) and myself think it's a life convenience thing for the pensioner heavy executive. Historically: Initially in the 1970s Sunday games reaped good crowds with the church crowd coming on board. This church crowd has now gone/passed away. Old habits die hard. Our president is from the 70s era of administrators so he has bias toward Sundays. It's genuinely hurting the code in this area. I'm still hoping one day that the club will only play on Saturdays but I'm not holding my breath . The executive reply that the 4 Saturdays and 4 Sundays is a balanced approach. I believe it is not maximizing the clubs league's club turnover or player enticement /enjoyment/welfare factor. Meanwhile the local rugby union club is powering on both in junior numbers and senior numbers.That's where it's at.

 

[Perth Red]

I'm guessing with the work patterns of today more people are available to play sport on a Sunday than a Saturday maybe? WA plays RL on a Saturday mostly though sometime pitch availability as the game is growing is an issue so it has to be spread out over the weekend.

In my home city there was no union teams in the council estate working class schools, only option was soccer or League.
I wonder if Union fans are outraged at the oppression their sport faced?

 

[Stallion]

I'm guessing with the work patterns of today more people are available to play sport on a Sunday than a Saturday maybe? WA plays RL on a Saturday mostly though sometime pitch availability as the game is growing is an issue so it has to be spread out over the weekend.

In my home city there was no union teams in the council estate working class schools, only option was soccer or League.
I wonder if Union fans are outraged at the oppression their sport faced?

Missing the point. Public demand. I'm sure just like in Brisbane private schools the parents lobbied for rugbyleague which is great. In NSW it's not the case despite it being the most popular rugby code. And GPS(that's everywhere in Aust) still staunchly have no rugbyleague yet have other codes and ofcourse union! Remembering the public schools allow all such codes. It's the exclusiveNess of the GPS schools that is the dodgy factor as far as equitable sport choice is concerned.

 

[Pommy]

I'm guessing with the work patterns of today more people are available to play sport on a Sunday than a Saturday maybe? WA plays RL on a Saturday mostly though sometime pitch availability as the game is growing is an issue so it has to be spread out over the weekend.

In my home city there was no union teams in the council estate working class schools, only option was soccer or League.
I wonder if Union fans are outraged at the oppression their sport faced?

Same, Union wasn’t offered at my very working class comprehensive. I never even watched a game until the World Cup final. I was opressed apparently (not complaining it’s as dull as dish water)

 

[madunit]

Missing the point. Public demand. I'm sure just like in Brisbane private schools the parents lobbied for rugbyleague which is great. In NSW it's not the case despite it being the most popular rugby code. And GPS(that's everywhere in Aust) still staunchly have no rugbyleague yet have other codes and ofcourse union! Remembering the public schools allow all such codes. It's the exclusiveNess of the GPS schools that is the dodgy factor as far as equitable sport choice is concerned.

May I pose an alternative view to you.

From Day 1, Rugby League was linked with Unionism and the Labor Party. They had Labor politicians like Henry Hoyle, Edward O'Sullivan, Billy Hughes (future PM), Edward Larkin and James Joynton-Smith were all Labor men in prominent roles in the first 2 seasons of Rugby League in Australia. Ernest Broughton, the short-lived second President of the NSWRL, was the only Liberal in a prominent role.

The game for a long time has been proudly linked with the working class. It was built on the back of supporting the working class players who couldn't afford time off work due to injury.

Perhaps RL has never been that interested in trying to be in private schools, instead opting to stick with it's strong working class roots.

You've only got to look at recent news articles to see how passionate Labor is at (appearing to be) supporting RL

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/labor-will-back-png-team-in-nrl

https://www.melbournestorm.com.au/news/2018/09/17/labor-commits-to-future-of-victorian-rugby-league/

https://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/24/john-howard-is-out-of-his-rugby-league/

 

[Stallion]

Noting that this has happened in Queensland isn't a backdoor for you to suggest that it's completely shut out in NSW, there's no basis to support that.

I'd agree to perhaps not completely shut out! But still 'shut out' in NSW as far as we know. I think the basis for my observation/comment would be "To my knowledge no elite private schools are playing rugby league" might be valid. Wonder if a survey can be done to show this? Perhaps my proposed thesis could do this? Be nice to think if someone has had a go at this prior to my time?

 

[Perth Red]

RL is only shut out if the NSWRL have offered to support these schools to set up programs and they have declined. Has this been the case? No school without a history of a sport is just going to set something up off its own back. If AFL has taught us anything it is that getting into schools costs investment money.

Has the NSWRL or NRL ever approached these schools? It sounds like as soon as the QRL did in Brisbane they accepted the offer.

 

[Stallion]

May I pose an alternative view to you.

From Day 1, Rugby League was linked with Unionism and the Labor Party. They had Labor politicians like Henry Hoyle, Edward O'Sullivan, Billy Hughes (future PM), Edward Larkin and James Joynton-Smith were all Labor men in prominent roles in the first 2 seasons of Rugby League in Australia. Ernest Broughton, the short-lived second President of the NSWRL, was the only Liberal in a prominent role.

The game for a long time has been proudly linked with the working class. It was built on the back of supporting the working class players who couldn't afford time off work due to injury.

Perhaps RL has never been that interested in trying to be in private schools, instead opting to stick with it's strong working class roots.

You've only got to look at recent news articles to see how passionate Labor is at (appearing to be) supporting RL

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/labor-will-back-png-team-in-nrl

https://www.melbournestorm.com.au/news/2018/09/17/labor-commits-to-future-of-victorian-rugby-league/

https://www.theroar.com.au/2009/10/24/john-howard-is-out-of-his-rugby-league/

That's fine and yes I understand the political history involved. However times have moved on . It's time rugby league had the presence at the elite private school level just like union and other codes. After all union does have a presence in the public and catholic schools.(no issues there?) Seems fair that rugby league can also be afforded such a "privilege"? I've got plenty of mates that vote liberal and love rugby league . It's just a more equitable way to go from an egalitarian point of view. Inclusivity for all sports(when practical) in all schools I suggest!

 

[Stallion]

RL is only shut out if the NSWRL have offered to support these schools to set up programs and they have declined. Has this been the case? No school without a history of a sport is just going to set something up off its own back. If AFL has taught us anything it is that getting into schools costs investment money.

Has the NSWRL or NRL ever approached these schools? It sounds like as soon as the QRL did in Brisbane they accepted the offer.

Did the QRL get involved initially? Or was it in response to parental demand?

 

[Perth Red]

Did the QRL get involved initially? Or was it in response to parental demand?

Either way it wasn't until the QRL knocked on the schools doors and offered to help them start RL programs that they took it up. They weren't repressing the game, they just had no motivation to to be involved in it.
If the NSWRL/NRL has never done this in NSW, and if parents at these schools have never demanded it, then you cant claim repression, any more than Union could claim repression because the working class schools of my old town didn't start schoolboy XV sides. If the RL bodies have offered support and funding and been knocked back then it is a different matter.

 

[madunit]

That's fine and yes I understand the political history involved. However times have moved on . It's time rugby league had the presence at the elite private school level just like union and other codes. After all union does have a presence in the public and catholic schools.(no issues there?) Seems fair that rugby league can also be afforded such a "privilege"? I've got plenty of mates that vote liberal and love rugby league . It's just a more equitable way to go from an egalitarian point of view. Inclusivity for all sports(when practical) in all schools I suggest!

Times may have moved on, but political parties that are further removed from the working class will attach themselves to anything working class to appear to have a common bond with them