Rhinos plot raid for Tim Moltzen

[R2Coupe]

Haha Tuiaki & Dwyer....yeh we lost Scott Prince & Willie Manu too

And if you believe the loss of Dwyer hasn't impacted on the performance of the team, I'd guess you hide your own easter eggs,

Humble defends 1000 times better than Lui given the same opportunities to cement his position would be the equivalent of Lui in attack which is not that high a benchmark - he just isnt a Sheens golden boy.

With respect, the point I raised was Lui's ability to create and remove a lot of pressure from Marshall so he could play his natural game. Having Lui on a different side of the field created two avenues of attack,

Ryans ability under the high ball, speed running the ball back and kick chases are what we need at fullback. Moltzen produces none of those. Attacking fullbacks are a luxury. You need a fullback that is at least, a good defender.

Ryan provides that.

You can put Moltzen at 7, get same service from him and reduce the risk of him conceding soft tries through his piss poor defence, positioning or ineptitude & lack of fortitude under the high ball.

Ryan is a fine player but lacks the ball playing ability of Moltzen. I dare say Tedesco is solid, has great attacking skills and is also has had experience in the halves.

 

[wade77]

Moltzen is the new Fitzhenry. There will always be a place for him in the side regardless of what the vast majority say. He is the weakest, most inept player whatever the position. His ball playing abilities??? I haven't seen those except when he *ucks up a cut out pass or do you mean the pass to the winger everytime he refuses to return a kick from fullback?

 

[innsaneink]

And if you believe the loss of Dwyer hasn't impacted on the performance of the team, I'd guess you hide your own easter eggs,

Youve been listening to Sheens too often

 

[T.T]

robson would be a terrible buy. he has 1 year left in him and he is nothing special. townsend on the other hand..

 

[R2Coupe]

Moltzen is the new Fitzhenry. There will always be a place for him in the side regardless of what the vast majority say. He is the weakest, most inept player whatever the position. His ball playing abilities??? I haven't seen those except when he *ucks up a cut out pass or do you mean the pass to the winger everytime he refuses to return a kick from fullback?

Recall the St George semi with the play at the marker between Lui and Moltzen. Moltzen sending a long left to right pass which allowed Beau Ryan to score?

 

[TrigaTheTiger]

My 2c:

Moltzen has "something." Sheens can see it. He is a great open field runner. But at his young age he has been disrupted by constant and continual positional changes. I think Sheens is trying to manufacture another Hodgo out of Moltzen - and us old magpie tragics will remember that look some time to....

Lui had about 7 good games for us. When he was on, he was, but generally speaking he was a less than Johnny Morris quality half. No loss and we had a ready made replacement, but unfortunately he has played most of the season at 1.

In my view - the better games that Molz annd Benji played in the halves together were much better than Lui's good games at 7.

Ryan simply needs to stay on the wing because we are short out there.

Dwyer has a big loss, but thats footy and the club has had two years to sort it out.

Keeping in mind also that we havent bought an experienced half since Prince, I suggest that "future planning" is not something this club is renowned for.

Unfortunately, Blair was supposed to be a "future plan" for Ellis - look at how that worked out. Once bitten I guess.

I have to admit, it is kinda funny that we have the best 5/8 in the world and we buy Anasta and blood Siro.....

So - we are back to where we were in 2006 - no half, no fullback and short in the forwards...........

Would any of you consider that it is this sort of ineptitude that keeps the good players away?

 

[Radical Rat]

Recall the St George semi with the play at the marker between Lui and Moltzen. Moltzen sending a long left to right pass which allowed Beau Ryan to score?

Agreed, that was one of the best passes I've ever seen. However it doesn't happen often enough, especially knowing that he has it in him.

I've bagged Moltzen throughout the year, but I do think he's been improving. He's now constesting high balls (and catching them). I can't remember him dropping one for quite a while. And he's running back kick returns himself more often.

He is our only dangerous runner of the ball and looks to be the only one capable of breaking the line. IMO Moltzen is the least of our problems at the moment. If we don't fix our line defence, then it doesn't matter who our fullback is.

 

[madunit]

And if you believe the loss of Dwyer hasn't impacted on the performance of the team, I'd guess you hide your own easter eggs,

We had approx 700k and full awareness of the extent of Dwyers injury at seasons end last year. What more do you need to have adequately cover for his loss? If you believe his departure is in any way related to our performance now, I'm sorry, but you are deluding yourself. We had ample cash and time to find a replacement. No excuses.

With respect, the point I raised was Lui's ability to create and remove a lot of pressure from Marshall so he could play his natural game. Having Lui on a different side of the field created two avenues of attack,

Humble has the same ability as does Moltzen. Marshall at 6 is a million times better than Marshall at 7. It's nothing to do with Lui, it's everything to do with Marshall having space, and getting good quality ball from the first receiver. ANyone can do that role but we've instead persisted with idiots and reshuffles. If you believe his departure is in any way related to our performance now, I'm sorry, but you are deluding yourself. We had replacement halfbacks who could provide Benji with what he and the team needed. Sheens reluctance to persist with a 7 for the entire year is the problem. Buying Anasta and bringing through Sironen was a ploy used by Sheens to justify him moving Benji to 7.

Ryan is a fine player but lacks the ball playing ability of Moltzen. I dare say Tedesco is solid, has great attacking skills and is also has had experience in the halves.

This one point you constantly bring up is stupid.

Moltzen plays exactly the same at 7 as he does at 1.

The role of a fullback has always, since 1895, been about stopping tries first and foremost. We need a fullback who is positionally aware, who JUMPS to catch bombs, who contests bombs, who doesn't let them bounce into opponents hands, who runs the ball back, who can tackle, who can clean up grubbers.

I'm sorry but Moltzen provides none of this. Ryan provides all of it. I feel more confident when I see Ryan at Fullback then Moltzen and I'm certain I'm not alone.

Moltzen is able to play his usual ball running style from 7, and while he's there, He's not gifting the opposition tries at fullback which automatically helps our defence and set starts.

It also puts Benji in his natural position and on his vastly better defensive side, which again further enhances our defence as well as improving our attack.

If you believe Moltzen is a better fullback than Ryan, I'm sorry, but you are deluding yourself.

 

[R2Coupe]

I've already explained Dwyer was viewed as a potential SOO forward. Having money to spend does not mean there are players of equivalent ability to sign on the market. And yes, you take a player of Dwyer's ability from any team, it will have an impact and in my view is part of the reason the team is not as potent as it once had been. To suggest there has been no impact on our attack on the right hand side of the field with the loss of Lui and Dwyer is nonsensical.



If Humble has the same ability as Moltzen, he has not displayed this even though he has had plenty of opportunity to do so. It is everything to do with Lui; you take the No 1 halfback from any side and there will be consequences. To suggest otherwise again is nonsensical.



Moltzen is obviously viewed as our second best fullback and I am yet to see your credentials as a coach to suggest otherwise. You are not aware of all the issues faced by a team, nor am I. However, I place my faith in an experienced coach rather than one of a handful of disgruntled and fickle supporters who call for the Sheens' head after a few reversals. This is not withstanding the fact there are very good reasons for the setbacks despite your refusal to acknowledge them.

 

[madunit]

I've already explained Dwyer was viewed as a potential SOO forward.

I can give you a lengthy list of 'potential origin players' who have played for the Tigers, who have left and haven't had any impact on the team. Its a stupid argument. He's been out for a year, we had an offseason to find a replacement and spent half a million on a test forward who has been nothing but an utter waste of time.

Having money to spend does not mean there are players of equivalent ability to sign on the market.

A test player was purchased to replace a kid with less than 40 games (and no Origin games) under his belt. Pretty hard to top that imo.

And yes, you take a player of Dwyer's ability from any team, it will have an impact and in my view is part of the reason the team is not as potent as it once had been. To suggest there has been no impact on our attack on the right hand side of the field with the loss of Lui and Dwyer is nonsensical.

No its not. Dwyer has been gone for a year and he was out all off season. We bought a test player to replace him. Our attack is shit because Blair is shit. Our attack is shit because ball running Benji has become boring pass and kick Benji. Having centres at five-eighth is also why our attack is shit. A Fullback who lets bombs bounce and lets opponents have first crack at high balls is why our defence is shit. Selling off Fifita and Gibbs is why our forwards have gone backwards. Your defence of the coach and club management is whats nonsensical.

If Humble has the same ability as Moltzen, he has not displayed this even though he has had plenty of opportunity to do so.

LOL! He has NOT had the opportunity, let alone, plenty of opportunity.

It is everything to do with Lui; you take the No 1 halfback from any side and there will be consequences. To suggest otherwise again is nonsensical.

Lui is a five-eighth and he was the only halfback option Sheens was going to try.

Moltzen is obviously viewed as our second best fullback

Which is f**king stupid given how f**king shithouse he is at it.

and I am yet to see your credentials as a coach to suggest otherwise.

I have coached Under 16's and been a captain coach of a reserve grade footy team in the bush for 3 years. Furthermore, I don't see what the f**k that has to do with the bleeding obvious. One can't be critical without experience? Whats the f**king point of forums then, to stand around wank each other off about how great everything is when it clearly isn't?

You are not aware of all the issues faced by a team, nor am I.

Yes I am. You clearly aren't.

However, I place my faith in an experienced coach rather than one of a handful of disgruntled and fickle supporters who call for the Sheens' head after a few reversals.

A few reversals. A FEW! This see saw form has been a mainstay of Sheens time at the Tigers. His reshuffling of player positions has been a mainstay of Sheens time at the Tigers. His love of putting players out of position for no reason, weakening strengths to cover weaknesses thus making the side weaker, has been a mainstay of Sheens time here. I cannot place my faith in a coach who can no longer figure out the raw basics of the game. I'm more than just a fickle fan, I'm one who pays a great sum of money to travel to their games from interstate every year, who buys a membership every year even though its value to me is nil, who studies the game in every aspect and has done religiously for over a decade, who has coached and played the game. I'd like to think my understanding of the game is a bit more than that of a fat bloke in an arm chair. That aside, even a fat bloke in an armchair can see the issues.

This is not withstanding the fact there are very good reasons for the setbacks despite your refusal to acknowledge them.

Setbacks happen all the time. A good coach can think on the run and work around these issues.

Sheens has shown time and again that he cannot do this.

Your inability to see that there is even just one thing wrong is mind numbingly crazy.

Either you are Sheens, or the one who shares his bed. No one else is this deluded.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Sorry MU, but there is no way in hell Humble is as talented as Lui. If he was he wouldn't have been running around in reserve grade for the past five years.

Lui is criminally underrated on this forum. The guy could not tackle and was obviously a shit human being, but there is no doubting he has talent. Much more talent than Tom Humble will ever have.

Lui was an excellent foil for Benji, very good kicking game and a player with vision who was not afraid to override Marshall and Farah and provide us with a genuine third playmaking option. Yes he was inconsistent (like most young players), yes his defense was usually poor, yes he is a crap human being, I won't argue any of that. But to suggest Tom Humble has just as much talent is just wrong. Humble is a reserve grader and a reject who couldn't even play consistent first grade at Parramatta, the worst team in the NRL.

There is a reason the Cowboys signed Lui despite a domestic violence charge hanging over his head.

 

[madunit]

Lui was a five eighth for starters.

Secondly his defence was non-existant.

Thirdly he rarely showed any consistency or top form.

While he was potentially a great player, I believe we only saw it about 5-6 times in his career here.

Humble is less overawed by first grade. He spends time in reggies because he isn't a coach favourite.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Lui may have been a five-eighth but his style of play very much suited our attack.

Humble is no more than a bog average, fringe first grader. He's touted as a utility but he's not good enough to play in any position. Has no vision, has a shit kicking game, is crap under the high ball when he plays fullback, not a particularly great defender and his service from dummy half when playing hooker is usually dreadful.

 

[madunit]

Sounds like everyone thats played at halfback for us since Prince left tbh.

I'm not going to argue with you there, Humble isn't that good, I agree. But I really don't think Lui was that good either. I still think Moltzen was more consistent and reliable at 7 than Lui was.

 

[DanOz]

Lui was a five eighth for starters.

Secondly his defence was non-existant.

Thirdly he rarely showed any consistency or top form.

While he was potentially a great player, I believe we only saw it about 5-6 times in his career here.

Humble is less overawed by first grade. He spends time in reggies because he isn't a coach favourite.

Agreed mate - if Humble had a season and a half in the 7 jumper he would be twice the player Lui was

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Agreed mate - if Humble had a season and a half in the 7 jumper he would be twice the player Lui was

I really don't know how you can say that. Humble clearly doesn't have the skill-set. You either have it or you don't.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Sounds like everyone thats played at halfback for us since Prince left tbh.

I'm not going to argue with you there, Humble isn't that good, I agree. But I really don't think Lui was that good either. I still think Moltzen was more consistent and reliable at 7 than Lui was.

Moltzen's highlight reel at #7 was his running game. He's really a running five-eighth.

I agree that many potential halfback options haven't been given a proper go, but the only three that had any talent in that position were Head, Lui and Miller.

Head had off field issues and was constantly injured, Lui had off-field troubles and Miller hasn't been given a proper go for god knows what reason.

 

[DanOz]

I really don't know how you can say that. Humble clearly doesn't have the skill-set. You either have it or you don't.

A matter of opinion I guess. To me Lui was defensively worse than Fitzhenry, something I thought I'd never see. Lui was a front runner - meaning he showed occasional flashes of something in attack when the game was in the bag, but went missing if the pressure was on. I think Humble would be Lui's equivalent in attack given the same time in the jumper, and Humble can tackle, something Lui could not.

 

[Tiger05]

Humble has the same ability as does Moltzen.

You may be right but we definitely haven't seen this. I think your wrong and its pretty obvious.

Marshall at 6 is a million times better than Marshall at 7.

I get this but I don't believe it. Marshall recently played one of his best games in a long while at 7.

If you believe Moltzen is a better fullback than Ryan, I'm sorry, but you are deluding yourself.

I think you are completely wrong here. I think we have looked a lot better with Moltzen at fullback rather than Ryan. I love Ryan but he has been best in the centres or on the wing. I prefer him at centre because I think it allows us to play a quicker winger.

 

[DanOz]

Moltzen's highlight reel at #7 was his running game. He's really a running five-eighth.

I agree that many potential halfback options haven't been given a proper go, but the only three that had any talent in that position were Head, Lui and Miller.

Head had off field issues and was constantly injured, Lui had off-field troubles and Miller hasn't been given a proper go for god knows what reason.

If Miller doesnt get a go next year we will lose him. As much as Sironen looks alright as a 6, Benji is not a 7. I would rather lose Sironen, put Benji back to 6 and get a halfback, whether its Miller or someone else I dont really care, but Miller looks to be more of an organising halfback than Humble or Moltzen and that is what we need.