RLWC17 squads

[Clarkent]

At least one of the Scots is actually a product of the Scottish RL. None of the Samoans or Tongans are.

Here we go again with this crap... I don't know if you've been hiding under a rock but most island players immigrate in nz and Australia... And even if they do have star players in the islands they picked up by nz and Australia in school scholarships like Hurrell and Kata did... There's no way a local player in the islands will get picked over a professional player... If we picked only local players for this world cup then this world cup is basically dead... There are more samoans and Tongans in Australia and NZ combined then there is in the islands... And all this talk about are they born in the islands is nonsense... They are as much kiwi or Aussie as they are islanders... Most if not all these island players are in born in nz and Australia have full blooded Samoan or tongan parents... So they have every right to play for there nation... Why you gotta compare who's got the least local born players?? We all know the islanders are gonna be lowest on that list cause most of them with parents immigrated to nz and Australia for a better life... Instead of celebrating that this world cup may be the most contested league world cup ever instead everyone's comparing teams with stupid reasons... In my honest opinion I hope nz or England ( not putting Aussie in there cause they're pretty much unbeatable) gets knocked out of the finals by one of the lower ranked teams to keep the international game alive... And hope they invest in it more after the world cup

 

[adamkungl]

Here we go again with this crap... I don't know if you've been hiding under a rock but most island players immigrate in nz and Australia... And even if they do have star players in the islands they picked up by nz and Australia in school scholarships like Hurrell and Kata did... There's no way a local player in the islands will get picked over a professional player... If we picked only local players for this world cup then this world cup is basically dead...

That's not the point that's being made here.
No one is expecting Tonga to pick players out of a park footy comp (well, if they are they're morons).

What we want to see is some players who got their start in Rugby League in Tonga. We want to see the Tongan local leagues capable of developing players who can get picked up by Australian and NZ rep teams and making it to the top. We want to see pathways implemented that gets local talent competing on a bigger stage so they can be noticed by professional clubs. Like Rugby Union has - Kata and Hurrell both were born in Tonga but moved to NZ on Union scholarships.

You are right that Tonga is a small country with more overseas migrants than local population. But you can't ask on one hand for the RLIF and NRL to throw money at Tonga to grow the international game, and on the other hand get angry whenever anyone suggests Tonga themselves improve their development of the sport. Being a small nation doesn't excuse them if they want to be a big part of international league.

In short - how does the best teenage player in the Tongan RL get to a professional club? Is it even possible?
Do they run under 16s and under 18/19s rep teams from the local league? Do they tour NZ or Aus?
Any nation who wants to be a big deal in international League has to be able to answer this question in the next 10 years. These are the players who are gonna stick with Tonga, big match payments or not, and not jump ship at the first opportunity because they were born in NZ.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Yep. Pretending these players are just as legitimate as born, bred and developed islanders is ensuring there will never be any legitimate born, bred and developed islander players. Why bother? Just fill them with blokes from Sydney and Auckland forever - most of whom will jump ship as soon as they can. You can't impose minimum standards on the likes of Scotland, Italy etc if Tonga and Samoa are allowed to get away with not meeting them. The reality is some countries ARE picking players from the derogatorily titled "park football" and good on them. Samoa actually picked two players from the domestic comp in their squad in 2013.

And just saying "but it's competitive" isn't good enough. Firstly, it isn't. These teams will never seriously contend for anything because their best players will invariably choose Australia or NZ more often than not. What we've seen this week is the exception not the rule. And secondly, if it is all about competitiveness and there is no standard or rules or legitimacy then it's not international football, it's just a contrived joke that might as well be canned for good and replaced with more club football.

 

[adamkungl]

As an example of what I'd like to see for Tonga, look at Fiji.

Their best domestic players played their non-first grade Aus based players (some of who are contracted to NRL clubs) before the squad was picked and stuck it to them hard (A draw against more fancied opposition counts as sticking it to them in my book).

They have sent junior rep teams to tour Aus.
http://www.asiapacificrl.com/2017/04/19/fiji-schoolboys-tour-australia/
http://www.fijitimes.com/story.aspx?id=263597

They have a plan in motion to complete their professional pathway with a NSW Cup team.

Fiji will be an international force for decades to come on the back of this.
Tonga will be right back to square one when NZ gets a respectable coach and Taumololo flips back. Much like Scotland have dropped right back to nothing less than a year after their 4N draw with NZ.

 

[UpTheKnights]

From memory Tonga actually did bring domestic player into camp for the mid year test against Fiji. Would be nice if they followed that up with an opposed session or something of the like whilst they are in camp there this week with a residents side, or at least allowing a select few into the training environment.

 

[Evil Homer]

Issue is that the population of Tonga is 107,000. Pretty sure there would be more Tongans in Sydney than Tonga. They're always going to rely on heritage and overseas players for that reason, it's just the nature of it. Fiji I believe is closer to a million people so it's a totally different story in terms of domestic development and what can be achieved there.

 

[adamkungl]

Issue is that the population of Tonga is 107,000. Pretty sure there would be more Tongans in Sydney than Tonga. They're always going to rely on heritage and overseas players for that reason, it's just the nature of it. Fiji I believe is closer to a million people so it's a totally different story in terms of domestic development and what can be achieved there.

That's true. For me the issue isn't so much that they haven't picked a domestic player, but that the pathway to make it possible doesn't really exist.

 

[Foreign Legion]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-league/41592230

Chester Butler has been given a dream World Cup call-up - only days after it was revealed he's the grandson of one Welsh rugby league's greatest players.

No-one believed him when he told them his grandad was the Cardiff-born World Cup winner Colin Dixon. But now he's proved his ancestry and Wales coach John Kear has drafted him straight into his 24-man squad.

With just a week's notice, Butler is travelling down under as part of a Wales squad that will face Papua New Guinea, Ireland and Fiji in the group stages.

"No-one actually believed Colin Dixon was my grandad, because, well, he was black and I'm white," said Butler.

"But it hit them when I showed them the evidence and they said: 'Wow.'"


Chester Williams, who Chester Butler is named after
'I've heard he was a big hitter'
Dixon was capped 30 times by Wales and Great Britain between 1963 and 1981. A star with Halifax and Salford, he was part of the 1972 World Cup-winning GB team.

Butler, a centre or winger at Championship club Halifax, never saw his grandad play. He was born a couple of years after the Welsh legend's death in the early 1990s. But he has heard plenty of the stories.

"My mum and uncle, his kids, have said a lot about him. He's a very missed man. A lot of people knew him." added Butler, who celebrated his 22nd birthday earlier this month.

"I've heard he was a big hitter, a strong carrier. He played all over the shop. He was horrible on the pitch, but a teddy bear off it.

"I grew up playing union, it's only just come about in my life through playing league."

Butler's agent tipped off Wales Rugby League after Butler revealed the family link - producing passports and wedding certificates to prove it - and he had a call a week ago from Wales team manager Bob Wilson putting him on standby.

"Two or three days ago he rang me up again. I was asleep, I was still in bed, and he said: 'Congratulations buddy, you're going to the World Cup'," said Butler.

"I just couldn't believe it. I thought, 'wow, I'm off the the World Cup'."

Butler has cancelled two planned holidays, but says he had no hesitation in order to play for the team that Colin Dixon dominated in the 1970s. And even his given name has links to his grandad.

"The family story goes that my mum saw Chester Williams, the South African rugby union winger play, and thought he looked like my grandad. So when I came along, they called me Chester," he says.

 

[johnny plath]

Yep. Pretending these players are just as legitimate as born, bred and developed islanders is ensuring there will never be any legitimate born, bred and developed islander players. Why bother? Just fill them with blokes from Sydney and Auckland forever - most of whom will jump ship as soon as they can. You can't impose minimum standards on the likes of Scotland, Italy etc if Tonga and Samoa are allowed to get away with not meeting them. The reality is some countries ARE picking players from the derogatorily titled "park football" and good on them. Samoa actually picked two players from the domestic comp in their squad in 2013.

And just saying "but it's competitive" isn't good enough. Firstly, it isn't. These teams will never seriously contend for anything because their best players will invariably choose Australia or NZ more often than not. What we've seen this week is the exception not the rule. And secondly, if it is all about competitiveness and there is no standard or rules or legitimacy then it's not international football, it's just a contrived joke that might as well be canned for good and replaced with more club football.

The contradictions in these forums are confusing as all f**k. At times we want the World Cup to be the pinnacle of the game, but then in the same breathe we want a quota system that would limit having the best players available in many teams competing. How is that then the pinnacle. Maybe some other competition would be appropriate to please your purist views. We sit in ivory towers in Aus and England casting opinions on who is legitimate and who is not in countries outside of those that have run domestic professional comps for over a hundred years. So dribble based on nothing but personal views of how the world should be. Could somebody direct me to the definitions of international football that you spruik about which explain what international football is all about... I haven't seen the one that paints the RLWC as a contrived joke, apart from the usual suspects. To my knowledge I'm pretty sure that there is a set of legitimate rules and standards on who is eligible to play, and I haven't seen a player yet picked in a squad who isn't eligible. Instead of keeping a tracker on so called 'born and bred' legitimate players by people on this forums definition, why not keep a track on how many teams have players that are outside the rules of the competition. Maybe you need to consider how the communities of people represented by these teams, the ones that really matter, view them.. judging from the support that exists in them I'd guess that your\s and other similar minded views are in the minority. Moronic deadshits have held the game back, and if they have their way will keep on doing it. Its 2017, not 1960.. the world has moved on and its a much smaller place with much fuzzier boundaries.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

The contradictions in these forums are confusing as all f**k. At times we want the World Cup to be the pinnacle of the game, but then in the same breathe we want a quota system that would limit having the best players available in many teams competing. How is that then the pinnacle. Maybe some other competition would be appropriate to please your purist views. We sit in ivory towers in Aus and England casting opinions on who is legitimate and who is not in countries outside of those that have run domestic professional comps for over a hundred years. So dribble based on nothing but personal views of how the world should be. Could somebody direct me to the definitions of international football that you spruik about which explain what international football is all about... I haven't seen the one that paints the RLWC as a contrived joke, apart from the usual suspects. To my knowledge I'm pretty sure that there is a set of legitimate rules and standards on who is eligible to play, and I haven't seen a player yet picked in a squad who isn't eligible. Instead of keeping a tracker on so called 'born and bred' legitimate players by people on this forums definition, why not keep a track on how many teams have players that are outside the rules of the competition. Maybe you need to consider how the communities of people represented by these teams, the ones that really matter, view them.. judging from the support that exists in them I'd guess that your\s and other similar minded views are in the minority. Moronic deadshits have held the game back, and if they have their way will keep on doing it. Its 2017, not 1960.. the world has moved on and its a much smaller place with much fuzzier boundaries.

Good for you. Go watch club football. That's what you're after.

 

[johnny plath]

Good for you. Go watch club football. That's what you're after.

Pretty odd response. Which ineligible players are playing again. So can you point out which communities are not happy about their players representing them at an international competition. Still haven't been able to find that universal definition of what international sport is about, can you help. Perhaps you need to go watch an international development competition... that's what you're after.

 

[Pommy]

Pretty odd response. Which ineligible players are playing again. So can you point out which communities are not happy about their players representing them at an international competition. Still haven't been able to find that universal definition of what international sport is about, can you help. Perhaps you need to go watch an international development competition... that's what you're after.

England fans are not happy with an Australian representing them.

 

[paulmac]

I dont expect a quota of domestic players for teams which have to face England,Australia or NZ but given we basically have a 2 tier World Cup which separates the big fish from the minnows surely we could ask the teams in pools C & D to have a minimum of 6-8 native born players.

 

[johnny plath]

England fans are not happy with an Australian representing them.

fair enough that is an odd selection. I didn't consider that one, my response was more towards outsiders judging who should and shouldn't play for countries other than their own, which in the context of this thread seems to be mostly directed at the tier two teams.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Pretty odd response. Which ineligible players are playing again. So can you point out which communities are not happy about their players representing them at an international competition. Still haven't been able to find that universal definition of what international sport is about, can you help. Perhaps you need to go watch an international development competition... that's what you're after.

International sport is sport between teams from different countries. Pretty simple really. Not teams from three counties wearing a 10 or 12 different sets of jerseys.

There's whole f**king countries that are ineligible to play, but are.

If you want to watch players from three countries interchangeably wearing 16 different jerseys there's a thing called the NRL. Look it up.

 

[johnny plath]

I dont expect a quota of domestic players for teams which have to face England,Australia or NZ but given we basically have a 2 tier World Cup which separates the big fish from the minnows surely we could ask the teams in pools C & D to have a minimum of 6-8 native born players.

And what does that prove... that our domestic comp is better than yours? Hopefully every team is in the mix to play one of the top teams if they make it through the pool stage, so what happens then.. is it ok to bring in a different team at that stage?

 

[Pommy]

fair enough that is an odd selection. I didn't consider that one, my response was more towards outsiders judging who should and shouldn't play for countries other than their own, which in the context of this thread seems to be mostly directed at the tier two teams.

For me it depends if people genuinely are part of that community I’m fine. Teams like Scotland where people wouldn’t consider themselves Scottish I don’t like.

 

[Evil Homer]

For me it depends if people genuinely are part of that community I’m fine. Teams like Scotland where people wouldn’t consider themselves Scottish I don’t like.

Harsh to say the Scotland team wouldn't consider themselves Scottish, they usually play with enough passion in the jersey and singing the anthem etc. Agree with your point overall though.

 

[Pommy]

Harsh to say the Scotland team wouldn't consider themselves Scottish, they usually play with enough passion in the jersey and singing the anthem etc. Agree with your point overall though.

How many of the English players in their squad would consider themselves Scottish in normal life? Not very many I would imagine, anyone that does I have no issue with.
I could get a run for Scotland but I wouldn't consider myself Scottish.

 

[adamkungl]

As i've said, I have no problem with heritage players generally but want to see the sport actually improving in those countries.
I love what Fiji are doing because they've clearly come a long way since 2008.
Scotland are the opposite.