Rnd 4Team vs Penrith

[Gronk]

Compound fracture to his hand. The chick that does the sideline for ABC described it as quite a nasty looking injury. He would need it pinned at least.

Tragic news. :sarcasm:

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Not saying you're wrong, but how do you know that?

Has Kelly improved himself since he's come to us? imo he hasn't, he's stayed the same and hasn't had to work for his jersey he's been granted it because first Kearney brought him over and he was handed it. And now BA has gifted it to him just because he coached him in the 20's. Maybe we should bring Billy Rogers back because BA coached him in the 20's?

 

[Obscene Assassin]

We would be the only team in the comp where our winger is our highest paid player

Newcastle with Uate on the wing? Dragons with Morris on the wing?

 

[Obscene Assassin]

he was a winger at Manly and Toutai has to go

Pretty sure he would have played more games at fullback for Manly...if you include NYC games. Don't forget that he was picked at fullback for the Australian schoolboys when he was 16.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Not having a crack at you specifically El D, but why would anyone put Morgan at centre in place of Hoppa who has been one of our best so far IMO? From memory, Morg's played on the wing in the 20's and only played in the centres in the last couple of seasons out of necessity due to our lack of depth.

Morgan would have played wing in NYC because in the lower grades wingers are far less involved and Morgan lacked the size to dominate at NYC level. In junior footy, wingers are just the outside backs not big enough to play centre.

But in the NRL wingers need size more than centres because they make so many tough carries like kick returns and hit ups. Morgan wouldn't be much of a winger. I know he's not small compared to normal people, but for an NRL outside back he is smaller than average. His best position is centre, whereas Hopoate is equally good at wing or centre.

 

[Captain BF]

Morgan would have played wing in NYC because in the lower grades wingers are far less involved and Morgan lacked the size to dominate at NYC level. In junior footy, wingers are just the outside backs not big enough to play centre.

But in the NRL wingers need size more than centres because they make so many tough carries like kick returns and hit ups. Morgan wouldn't be much of a winger. I know he's not small compared to normal people, but for an NRL outside back he is smaller than average. His best position is centre, whereas Hopoate is equally good at wing or centre.

Fair enough, but wouldn't having Hoppa on the wing mean he would get less ball and less space to work in? He's a lot more dangerous a ball runner than Morgan is IMO.

 

[hindy111]

this year we have SMith-hoppa and toutai on one side and Mau tonga radrarda on the other...
Was wndering what last year combo was in reguards to SIO? Was it Reni and morgan on his side?

 

[Jodeci]

Newcastle with Uate on the wing? Dragons with Morris on the wing?

They would only be earning half what Hoppa is on

 

[Avenger]

Hoppa is getting better and has been sensational for someone coming back after 2 years on Malvern Star.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Fair enough, but wouldn't having Hoppa on the wing mean he would get less ball and less space to work in? He's a lot more dangerous a ball runner than Morgan is IMO.

He would get less early ball on shift plays (backline moves) but how much early ball do centres get anyway? Receiving the ball at the line is what stops defenders being able to get numbers into the tackle out wide, and allows outside backs to get one-on-one opportunities.

Centres don't get that many carries anyway. At least on the wing you get kick returns and most of the following carries as everyone else gets back onside. The main reason to play Hopoate at centre is for his defence, and Morgan is almost as good.

 

[T.S Quint]

Has Kelly improved himself since he's come to us? imo he hasn't, he's stayed the same and hasn't had to work for his jersey he's been granted it because first Kearney brought him over and he was handed it. And now BA has gifted it to him just because he coached him in the 20's. Maybe we should bring Billy Rogers back because BA coached him in the 20's?

That's a lot of assumptions.
You think he's in FG only because he's Brad Arthur's mate? Or maybe he's impressed BA with his work at training. Maybe knows the potential of Kelly more than we do and is working him towards realising it.

See, I can make assumptions too.

As for him not having improved at the Eels, he has only played 25 games with us. That's one season - and that time has been interrupted by injury, or spent behind a woefully bad forward pack and trying to pass it to terrible outside backs.

I'm not the biggest Kelly fan in the world (though it may sound like it right now) but I'm just trying to be a the voice of reason. Sandow, for all his talents has been nothing short of disgraceful for us and yet now everyone wants him back in the side. Give Kelly a few more weeks to get better, and let Sandow work on his game at Wenty.

 

[BennyBoy]

That's a lot of assumptions.
You think he's in FG only because he's Brad Arthur's mate? Or maybe he's impressed BA with his work at training. Maybe knows the potential of Kelly more than we do and is working him towards realising it.

See, I can make assumptions too.

As for him not having improved at the Eels, he has only played 25 games with us. That's one season - and that time has been interrupted by injury, or spent behind a woefully bad forward pack and trying to pass it to terrible outside backs.

I'm not the biggest Kelly fan in the world (though it may sound like it right now) but I'm just trying to be a the voice of reason. Sandow, for all his talents has been nothing short of disgraceful for us and yet now everyone wants him back in the side. Give Kelly a few more weeks to get better, and let Sandow work on his game at Wenty.

They weren't assumptions, they were opinions, as he clearly stated with the use of imo.

Oh, and imo, Kelly is not capable of getting any better, what you see is all he has got,

 

[T.S Quint]

They weren't assumptions, they were opinions, as he clearly stated with the use of imo.

Has Kelly improved himself since he's come to us? imo he hasn't, he's stayed the same and hasn't had to work for his jersey he's been granted it because first Kearney brought him over and he was handed it. And now BA has gifted it to him just because he coached him in the 20's. Maybe we should bring Billy Rogers back because BA coached him in the 20's?

That right there is an assumption.
It may be informed by his opinion, but it is still an assumption.

Oh, and imo, Kelly is not capable of getting any better, what you see is all he has got,

You may be right.
But I reckon Arthur may have a better idea than the both of us.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Agreed, T.Squint. I rate Sandow above Kelly, but I am prepared to go with the coach's judgement over my own. He has more to lose if his judgement is wrong, too.

I will just pretend I was right the entire time.

 

[lingard]

Besides the two mistakes he made early I thought Gower went well.

Me too.

 

[lingard]

If people are not sold on Kelly or Sandow, why dont we try Norman at 7, Hayne at 6 and Hoppa at 1?

Bring in Morgs to take Hoppa's jersey?

Hoppoate wouldn't be ready to play fullback yet - in terms of match fitness, speed, strength, etc. Hayne is not, and never will be, a five-eight. Norman is a specialist fullback/five-eight; not a half-back. And Kelly may still improve.
Apart from that, it's a great idea.

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

Sadly I think you are right. , I would bring Sandow in for Kelly, Sio for Toutai and start Kelepi and bring junior Paulo on the bench.

Yep, although I can understand if Kelly stays in the side. The other two should be definites.

 

[caylo]

But in the NRL wingers need size more than centres because they make so many tough carries like kick returns and hit ups. Morgan wouldn't be much of a winger. I know he's not small compared to normal people, but for an NRL outside back he is smaller than average. His best position is centre, whereas Hopoate is equally good at wing or centre.

He would get less early ball on shift plays (backline moves) but how much early ball do centres get anyway? Receiving the ball at the line is what stops defenders being able to get numbers into the tackle out wide, and allows outside backs to get one-on-one opportunities.

Centres don't get that many carries anyway. At least on the wing you get kick returns and most of the following carries as everyone else gets back onside. The main reason to play Hopoate at centre is for his defence, and Morgan is almost as good.

Maybe so but Morgan is quicker then Hoppa meaning when he gets outside someone he is less likely to be chased down which is more important for a winger. Also we have seen someone like Vai who is incredibly strong but does not know how to uses it while Morgan is opposite and is pretty difficult to handle.

In comparing size:
Vai - 186cm/101kg
Sio - 185cm/95kg
Semi - 190cm/98kg
Morgan - 185cm/93kg
Hopoate - 186cm/95kg

Now Semi is tallest of the lot but weighs less then Vai yet he breaks more tackles. To me this indicates size does not equal ability to run hard and make meters.
You say Hoppa has the size to play in the centre and on the wing and morgan is much the same size
Sio has done well on the wing in the past outside of his inability to catch a high ball but yet he is very similar in size to Morgan.

What hoppa has that Morgan doesn't is the ability to play to his outside man and obviously his defence is superior. Morgan has all the facets in his game to make a good winger like being good under the high ball, decent defender, speed and good finishing ability. BTW i still think Sio is our best option for Vai wing spot especially considering his goal kicking ability but Morgan would also be a decent option.

For

 

[lingard]

Our defence kept us in the game against Manly and nearly won it for us. Our attack was good enough to put 18 points on them. If it wasn't for a string of penalties, we would have beaten them. Why on earth would anyone consider bringing back Sandow right now? Sandow, who goes missing when things get tough; who couldn't tackle a square meal; who has discipline and attitude problems; and who is so erratic in his play that it is difficult for a coach to work on formations and structures within the team? Right now, when the coach is trying to develop a tough, winning attitude, why the hell would he want a player like Sandow?
Maybe a team like Easts or Canterbury could afford a Chris Sandow, but we can't.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Maybe so but Morgan is quicker then Hoppa meaning when he gets outside someone he is less likely to be chased down which is more important for a winger.

Actually, beating a man on the outside is a more dangerous move for wingers than for centres, which is why wingers tend to come back infield and use their strength to avoid getting carried over the sideline. Centres are also more likely to slide in defence to chase their opposing centre toward the sideline, and cover if he passes to the winger. In defence wingers just need to jam in on the runner plus cover kicks

Also we have seen someone like Vai who is incredibly strong but does not know how to uses it while Morgan is opposite and is pretty difficult to handle.

Toutai can break tackles. In rounds one and two he was very strong and got involved. His only quiet game was on the weekend.

In comparing size:
Vai - 186cm/101kg
Sio - 185cm/95kg
Semi - 190cm/98kg
Morgan - 185cm/93kg
Hopoate - 186cm/95kg

Now Semi is tallest of the lot but weighs less then Vai yet he breaks more tackles. To me this indicates size does not equal ability to run hard and make meters.
You say Hoppa has the size to play in the centre and on the wing and morgan is much the same size
Sio has done well on the wing in the past outside of his inability to catch a high ball but yet he is very similar in size to Morgan.

Those stats are at least two years old mate. For the younger guys they're useless. Sio would be close to 100kg this year and Radradra looks like he's about 105kg.

What hoppa has that Morgan doesn't is the ability to play to his outside man and obviously his defence is superior. Morgan has all the facets in his game to make a good winger like being good under the high ball, decent defender, speed and good finishing ability. BTW i still think Sio is our best option for Vai wing spot especially considering his goal kicking ability but Morgan would also be a decent option.

I have no doubt Morgan would be a decent winger in first grade. I just think if he and Hopoate played on the same side of the field we'd get more with Hoppa on the wing.