Roosters Out of Junior Comps

[j0nesy]

Shows the pathetic set up of the NRL and NSWRL. Gys at the top like Gallop wonder why the f#ck, things like the whole Sonny Bill Williams saga happen. I maintain, that if you divide the junior regions fairly amongst Clubs and give them concessions for bringing young players all the way through the system and into first grade, this will have two desired effects.

1. It will mean that the young bloke has a desire to play for the 1st grade team in his Junior region, because he will have identified with it from the minute he first piked up a Footy.

2. It would help to limit players becoming mercenaries as they get older and chasing the highest bid. (If the club was given a concession, the highest bid would generally come from his home club).

One of the greatest problems with the NRL today is that blokes like Sonny Bill (although he is a slightly different case) are brought through the system and made into Superstars by one club and they have no way of stopping him from going to the highest bidder come contract time. As mentioned earlier by some knowledgeable person, if their is no reward in bringing Juniors through the system, then clubs will decide that having Juniors is an expensive waste of time. The Roosters are the trickle that will lead to the stream imo.

Mate this is a really good post. I think you've hit the nail on the head.

My only issue is with the highlighted text. It would be very difficult to divide junior regions fairly among clubs. What consitutes 'fair'? For exmaple the Dragons are associated with a very large rugby league region, have invested in that region for years and are a merged entity. Would it be fair to slice that up and give parts of it to Easts (for example), who have a small region and haven't provided the same level of investment over time?

I believe if the NRL provide salary cap "concessions for bringing young players all the way through the system and into first grade" as you mentioned, then clubs will naturally be enticed to invest more in junior development, perhaps even merge in order to gain access to a larger region of junior players.

 

[seanoff]

Shows the pathetic set up of the NRL and NSWRL. Gys at the top like Gallop wonder why the f#ck, things like the whole Sonny Bill Williams saga happen. I maintain, that if you divide the junior regions fairly amongst Clubs and give them concessions for bringing young players all the way through the system and into first grade, this will have two desired effects.

1. It will mean that the young bloke has a desire to play for the 1st grade team in his Junior region, because he will have identified with it from the minute he first piked up a Footy.

2. It would help to limit players becoming mercenaries as they get older and chasing the highest bid. (If the club was given a concession, the highest bid would generally come from his home club).

One of the greatest problems with the NRL today is that blokes like Sonny Bill (although he is a slightly different case) are brought through the system and made into Superstars by one club and they have no way of stopping him from going to the highest bidder come contract time. As mentioned earlier by some knowledgeable person, if their is no reward in bringing Juniors through the system, then clubs will decide that having Juniors is an expensive waste of time. The Roosters are the trickle that will lead to the stream imo.

the other option is to completely disconnect the NRL competition from ALL the underlying comps, possibly including the 20s. look around at other pro leagues the top level clubs have very little connection to the lower levels.

NFL. these clubs have nothing to do with anyone bar themselves.

EPL. all have academies, but at the top level they scour the world for talent and up to 16 they have to live within 90 minutes. so up to 16 the clubs don't give a flying ****. The FA in England are responsible for everything below the EPL..

MLB they have a farm system where each club has a set of lower league pro teams they are affiliated with. These teams tho, pay for themselves tho. AAA (the level down) has an average attendance of close to 7,000. and these teams a spread all over the country.

AFL. many clubs have loose associations with lower league clubs. Some 4 or 5 actually have a 2nds side but none go lower than that, the SA and WA clubs spread their listed players across all teams in those state leagues.

The NRL and the various state leagues should be responsible for the development of younger players. The funding of the junior development and the running of the comps. It works in other sports, so surely it can work in the NRL

It must be very difficult as the CEO of an NRL club to juggle the needs of an NRL side, U 20s, U18s and U16s and find the money to fund all of this. Also as DKOR pointed out there are huge discrepancies in the size of the various jnr regions.


either way there needs to be some rationalisation of how juniors are handled.

 

[sass]

Until recently, St George Illawarra's 'poaching' has been limited to discarded youngsters and busted veterans. We've constantly suffered raids on our roster from clubs domestic and international.

Darius Boyd and Neville Costigan are our first representative signings since Wayne Bartrim.

Compare that with the Roosters, hell, you've scabbed a few of ours.

True Juniors for the Dragons in 2009, from what we know as the squad in no particular order. This does not include Developed juniors that played at no other club.
Cooper
Morris
Nightingale
Stanley
Hornby
Head
Poore
Creagh
Dan Hunt
Prior
Young
Whare

That's 12, in what will be our least junior centric season.

Count the number of players in other clubs that got their start or their first real chance at the Dragons.

oh I won't dispute that the dragons are probably the best in the whole league! but I mean across the league in general - numbers aren't pretty. if they're not worrying now then the trend is that they're falling and if there aren't any changes then I don't think that trend will turn. you know?

and yeah, couldn't agree more with clever rabbit.

as for the question of disconnecting junior comps altogether ... it might make financial sense but it's a hard choice to make. because even though league got it's start around the very question of professionalism, we still want to think of it as grassroots or community integrated or supporting kids in the sport too. so even if we don't think it does do that, we think it should.

saying that the nrl should wash it's hands of dealing with juniors just doesn't feel ... right.

 

[mightybears]

Here comes the usual Rooster bashing for this month...

and for once the chook bashing is well deserved, what a disgraceful decision, maybe if they stopped buying in the talent and put more into their [admittedly] small base they wouldn't have the $ problem now.

 

[j0nesy]

and for once the chook bashing is well deserved, what a disgraceful decision, maybe if they stopped buying in the talent and put more into their [admittedly] small base they wouldn't have the $ problem now.

Maybe if they invested more in to junior development over the years they wouldn't have such a small base.

 

[mightybears]

Maybe if they invested more in to junior development over the years they wouldn't have such a small base.

True but demography plays a big part, and the schools were pretty anti-league historically.

 

[OVP]

and for once the chook bashing is well deserved, what a disgraceful decision, maybe if they stopped buying in the talent and put more into their [admittedly] small base they wouldn't have the $ problem now.

I dont believe its a monetary decision to be honest with you. We had players in our Under 20's team who were stuffed because they played too many previous matches in the U18's. I remember reading about one player (Ben Jones i think it was) who'd played over 30 matches in the U18's and U20's, and the 20s comp wasnt even half way through. He was burnt out and needed a rest.

With the success of the Toyota Cup, i believe the U18's comp is history. Other clubs will follow suit, you mark my words.

 

[Loudstrat]

Here come the morons ...

That's what Ikin says in Origin when QLD go on the attack.

Surely it can't cost that much to run jnr teams can it? I know sack the aromatherapist, the wrestling coach, the psychologist and all the other unneccesary coaches and put the money into ensuring the NRL has stars for the future!

Maybe if they invested more in to junior development over the years they wouldn't have such a small base.

Two imbeciles who don't realise that suburbs like Vaucluse, Bellevue Hill, Paddington and the Cross are not "3 kids and a Falcon" areas. Lots of sex - bugger all to do with creating kids.


10 pages - and no one has gotten anywhere near the point.

THE POINT IS THIS: THE ROOSTERS ARE MERELY ALIGNING THEMSELVES WITH THE PRACTICES OF BRISBANE AND MELBOURNE!!!!!

 

[j0nesy]

THE POINT IS THIS: THE ROOSTERS ARE MERELY ALIGNING THEMSELVES WITH THE PRACTICES OF BRISBANE AND MELBOURNE!!!!!

What a load of sh*t.

ROFL - so the point is to follow in the footsteps of two other clubs is it? :lol: Just because you use capslock, 18 point font, bold and 5 exclamation marks doesn't make it true. The point is that the Rooster's are cost cutting and junior development has been identified as the best area to cut, probably provides least return on investment.

 

[The Business]

I dont believe its a monetary decision to be honest with you. We had players in our Under 20's team who were stuffed because they played too many previous matches in the U18's. I remember reading about one player (Ben Jones i think it was) who'd played over 30 matches in the U18's and U20's, and the 20s comp wasnt even half way through. He was burnt out and needed a rest.

With the success of the Toyota Cup, i believe the U18's comp is history. Other clubs will follow suit, you mark my words.

Exactly. I think it's obvious that the under 18s competition will be culled very soon. Most in the Toyota Cup are 17-18 anyway.

However, the mainstream drop kicks will just find a reason to criticise.

 

[Loudstrat]

You tool. The topic is junior development, which Brisbane and Melbourne don't do in the way other clubs do by having sides representing THEIR club, not some affiliate, in a lower grade comp.

Diddn't think I needed to spell that one out, but didn't count on your f*cked brain, did I!

 

[SOO]

They are going broke. Have been for ages, i know that some admin staff have had their hours cut and contracted U20 players are helping out in the office

Incorrect those players that help out do a traineeship and are payed by the club 3 work there they have plenty of admin staff there and work long hours mate

 

[The Observer]

10 pages - and no one has gotten anywhere near the point.

THE POINT IS THIS: THE ROOSTERS ARE MERELY ALIGNING THEMSELVES WITH THE PRACTICES OF BRISBANE AND MELBOURNE!!!!!

Clubs in all areas are cutting costs on feeder teams. Souths, Parramatta, Penrith, St George Illawarra, Newcastle and now Manly have all dumped their feeder teams in reserve grade and adopted other teams (like Norths, Wentworthville, Windsor, Central Newcastle and now Sunshine Coast).

The replacement of reserve grade/NSWRL with the Toyota Cup is potentially very damaging for the game yet few people have said anything about it.

 

[P.J.]

Surely there should some criteria to holding an NRL franchise? Teams shouldn't be allowed to just cut jnr's, it is the lifeblood of the game and if all clubs took this attitude the game would be stuffed!

You make a valid point but unfortunately the NRL dont think logically. There will always be more players, right?

Money in the so called "criteria", the same criteria the Warriors passed and went broke inside of two years mind you, is all that matters.

And yes, South Sydney does have a monopoly in that region, basically because they are doing a fantastic job. I believe it's still free (correct me if i'm wrong) and your kid gets a jersey, socks and shorts!!!!

The Roosters started this years ago, it was continued last year with the stripping of funding to what few teams were left, now they've nailed a 30+ year tradition, closing down these two grades.

There's always more players, sound familiar?

It's much much much cheaper, to simply offer a scholarship to one great player, than to pay for 2,000 or 3,000 players in the hope you get a star or two out of them. Disgraceful conduct and blaming the pokie tax is laughable. Not unexpected though, as I said, it's been coming for a while and the NRL fully supports what they are doing, because no criteria is in place.

I believe every NRL franchise MUST be accountable for x amount of teams, clubs, grades, whatever. The NRL needs to set this to ensure other clubs dont stoop this low and just start pinching everyone elses successes from hard work.

Wont happen, it's a good idea that'll help the game. It wont happen, the NRL are not that smart, they still haven't even got one board!!!

 

[P.J.]

Clubs in all areas are cutting costs on feeder teams. Souths, Parramatta, Penrith, St George Illawarra, Newcastle and now Manly have all dumped their feeder teams in reserve grade and adopted other teams (like Norths, Wentworthville, Windsor, Central Newcastle and now Sunshine Coast).

The replacement of reserve grade/NSWRL with the Toyota Cup is potentially very damaging for the game yet few people have said anything about it.

Umm, Premier League (Reserve Grade) still exists. It hasn't been replaced. Jersey Flegg (Under 19's) was replaced with the Toyota Cup (Under 20's competition) because most players are cracking first grade before 20 now, or just before. It's a great vision of the future.

How is this "potentially very damaging for the game"?

 

[P.J.]

Mate this is a really good post. I think you've hit the nail on the head.

My only issue is with the highlighted text. It would be very difficult to divide junior regions fairly among clubs. What consitutes 'fair'? For exmaple the Dragons are associated with a very large rugby league region, have invested in that region for years and are a merged entity. Would it be fair to slice that up and give parts of it to Easts (for example), who have a small region and haven't provided the same level of investment over time?

I believe if the NRL provide salary cap "concessions for bringing young players all the way through the system and into first grade" as you mentioned, then clubs will naturally be enticed to invest more in junior development, perhaps even merge in order to gain access to a larger region of junior players.

Simple answer, no. But what you do is give the Roosters an area of equal size. Last time I checked, the Central coast doesn't have a team. It would be a great nursery of junior talent and no NRL side to go to (at present).

Now unless we're getting the CC back in (which they should be and I still cant see it happening) then allocate this area to the Roosters. If other clubs have a smaller area (eg: Dragons, then give them a country town to foster).

I personally think all the major centres should be linked to a club anyway.

But there is no criteria from the NRL, saying clubs should be looking after a certian region, and if you take it technically (and i'm a Rabbitohs fan), South Sydney doesn't have a junior area either. Souths Juniors look after the area, the Senior club plays little part in it.

And I totally agree with DKOR, if there is no incentive to create players, why would you? More and more clubs will go this way and God knows what will happen then.

We use to be the marquee game, the game with the most money. We're not anymore. Players use to come to our game, now we're losing them.

What's going to happen when we're losing them and not creating them, at the same time?

 

[Perth Red]

We can always sign SL players from Europe!

 

[P.J.]

We can always sign SL players from Europe!

Actually, our game is being starved of funding, meaning we cannot compete with the rich Super League. That's why there are over 100 Aussie and Kiwi players over there right now.

Who owns it? Yep, News Ltd.

You'd wonder why News Ltd would starve funding to their game (NRL), it would weaken it, but when you realise that doing this is significantly strengthening their Pooper League in the UK, you then realise it's all just part of the plan.....

And they have the hide to say there are not enough "quality players" to put more teams in. LMFAO. We could have 4 new teams with those players, let the UK develop their own talent, then they might not be so crap in International Matches....

 

[j0nesy]

You tool. The topic is junior development, which Brisbane and Melbourne don't do in the way other clubs do by having sides representing THEIR club, not some affiliate, in a lower grade comp.

Diddn't think I needed to spell that one out, but didn't count on your f*cked brain, did I!

It was very thoughtful of you to "spell" it out for me. However, given the obvious effort you went to, the least you could have done is spell correctly. :lol: Now try to put aside all that pent up emotion and partake in the debate, rather than screaming and insulting. I'm sure you're a smart lad, you have nothing to prove.

 

[bazza]

Simple answer, no. But what you do is give the Roosters an area of equal size. Last time I checked, the Central coast doesn't have a team. It would be a great nursery of junior talent and no NRL side to go to (at present).

Now unless we're getting the CC back in (which they should be and I still cant see it happening) then allocate this area to the Roosters. If other clubs have a smaller area (eg: Dragons, then give them a country town to foster).

I personally think all the major centres should be linked to a club anyway.

But there is no criteria from the NRL, saying clubs should be looking after a certian region, and if you take it technically (and i'm a Rabbitohs fan), South Sydney doesn't have a junior area either. Souths Juniors look after the area, the Senior club plays little part in it.

I think that now the junior leagues can be run seperately from the senior team - however, I think that NRL clubs should still each be running junior rep teams.
This means that each year there are 20 or so new young players from each club who have professional coaching.
I think to enforce this you either have to:
1. Make it compulsory to be in the NRL to have junior rep teams
2. Give concessions for long-serving players which includes time in junior rep teams