Round 17 vs Melbourne

[BennyV]

1. Dufty
2. Mann
3. Aitken
4. Lafai
5. Nene
6. Widdop
7. Nicholls
8. Graham
9. McIness
10. Latimore
11. Host
12. Leilua
13. Sele

14. Ah Mau
15. Lawrie
16. Nightingale
17. Field/Herbert/Ford

Expecting Nightingale to spend time on the second row switching with Leilua (no idea how it'll work out but we have no one else who can play there left). Ah Mau starts on the bench so we don't lose his impact coming on.

We have a fairly good chance of winning this game IMO, Storm's forward pack is basically there QLD Cups due to injuries and Origin. All depends on whether Leilua and Sele will be able to play the extra minutes given to them.

Finally, a team list that makes sense!!!

Not sure where anyone gets the impression that Sele can play on the edge, he's an out-and-out middle and the closest thing we have to JDB so he should be playing lock. As much as Leilua needs time in the middle he's one of the last edge forwards we have so he starts with Host (who plays 80), and Nightingale (or Mann) gets 15 minutes either side of half time to give him a breather. Ah Mau and Latimore are interchangeable but Lawrie plays in the prop rotation. I dont think Ford can play as a development player and Field is so very far from first grade so hopefully Herbert gets a crack off the bench - he probably comes on the wing and pushes Mann/Nighty to lock to give Sele a spell. The alternative is Allgood, but that would just be painful.

 

[BennyV]

Good question.

And my answer would be no. As much as I think Mary has done a fair job, what the first 15 rounds have shown us that we have a squad capable of winning a comp.
Said it before, Millward has provided a platform for success when you consider the current squad, the young guys coming through and the fact our cap is in good shape.

A good coach should be able to get us to the big dance or pretty close at least. Finishing in the bottom half of the 8 and going out first week is a fail IMO.

So in a lot of ways, Mary is on notice. If he can’t get it done we need to find someone who can. Still have my doubts whether Mary is the guy to be honest.

But I hope he proves me and most on here wrong and we can go all the way,

I was thinking the other day that one of the huge ingredients in winning a premiership is a hell of a lot of luck, with injuries, ref decisions and so on. For example, in 2010 we were very lucky to get Fien and Smith from injury primed in time for the finals, as well as the recruitment of Le Gaz midway through the season.

We've had a hell of a lucky season this year. Not just in terms of injuries, but we've played a few top teams before they clicked into gear (Roosters, Sharks) and have a very easy run home. I'm hoping it doesnt backfire on us, but I'm also hoping that luck doesnt run out too soon.

 

[Crush]

Well we will now see if the chickens in fact do come home to roost.
There have been plenty of opportunities to properly blood the young guns in the top grade which IMO has been declined to a large extent and now many of the young forwards are going to be required to pay big minutes this week and possibly the next.
Hopefully training with the top grade and their limited playing time in the NRL will be enough to help guide them through against the Storm.
A win or a very close loss will have a galvanising effect on these young guys but if we cop a Smith masterclass and a bath at the same time then IMO it could be very soul destroying and in fact might further harden Mc Fookknuckle's attitude re playing promising youth in the top grade.
It will be a fascinating week to watch as plan B is about to be rolled out.

I am really looking forward to seeing how this game pans out.
I tell you what, even with 5 of our top players out we still have a pretty decent team and a chance of victory.
Hopefully all origin guys come through unscathed and ready for Tigers next Sunday arvo.

 

[Crush]

I was thinking the other day that one of the huge ingredients in winning a premiership is a hell of a lot of luck, with injuries, ref decisions and so on. For example, in 2010 we were very lucky to get Fien and Smith from injury primed in time for the finals, as well as the recruitment of Le Gaz midway through the season.

We've had a hell of a lucky season this year. Not just in terms of injuries, but we've played a few top teams before they clicked into gear (Roosters, Sharks) and have a very easy run home. I'm hoping it doesnt backfire on us, but I'm also hoping that luck doesnt run out too soon.

Luck is vital and it has been on our side all year. Long may it continue.

 

[Dragonsteve2]

Old Timer stated:
There have been plenty of opportunities to properly blood the young guns in the top grade which IMO has been declined to a large extent and now many of the young forwards are going to be required to pay big minutes this week and possibly the next.

OT, I was interested to note Mary's praise of the young forwards in his last press conference for their efforts against the Eels. Now what I would like to know is whether his praise is a recognition on his part of the quality of the younger brigade he has at his disposal or is it an attempt to justify his rotation of the youngsters through the 75 minute benching warming/5 minutes playing debacle. In other words is Mary implying they played well because of their earlier 5 minute cameos that he orchestrated?

OT, some great posts from you today on team selection. I appreciate the logic that you have applied. I think you are at your best when you are free to articulate your views without the need to fend off daggers from posters who either don't understand or disagree with your analysis.

 

[Frank Facer]

I would go

1 Dufty
2 McDonald
3 Aitken
4 Lafai
5 Mann
6 Widdop
7 Nicholls
13 Sele
12 Lucky
11 Host
10 Ah Mau
9 McInnes
8 Graham

14 Nightingale
15 Lawrie
16 Latimore
17 Ford

Another option could be to move Aitken to start in the second row and bring in Herbert as his centre replacement, with Ford dropping out of the 17.

 

[Mark D]

Living overseas I don’t see any of the lower grades... I had high hopes for Kerr this year... any feedback as to how he is going ?

 

[Old Timer]

Old Timer stated:
There have been plenty of opportunities to properly blood the young guns in the top grade which IMO has been declined to a large extent and now many of the young forwards are going to be required to pay big minutes this week and possibly the next.

OT, I was interested to note Mary's praise of the young forwards in his last press conference for their efforts against the Eels. Now what I would like to know is whether his praise is a recognition on his part of the quality of the younger brigade he has at his disposal or is it an attempt to justify his rotation of the youngsters through the 75 minute benching warming/5 minutes playing debacle. In other words is Mary implying they played well because of their earlier 5 minute cameos that he orchestrated?

OT, some great posts from you today on team selection. I appreciate the logic that you have applied. I think you are at your best when you are free to articulate your views without the need to fend off daggers from posters who either don't understand or disagree with your analysis.

I honestly think that there is a delusional thought process that the coaching staff have done a great job preparing these young guys for the challenges of 1st grade and that the team is now benefiting from that.
As I stated previously I think we have missed the boat somewhat but hopefully the natural talent of the young guys will fill in for the shortfall in game time.

 

[The Damo]

I honestly think that there is a delusional thought process that the coaching staff have done a great job preparing these young guys for the challenges of 1st grade and that the team is now benefiting from that.
As I stated previously I think we have missed the boat somewhat but hopefully the natural talent of the young guys will fill in for the shortfall in game time.

I dont think I’m delusional (but crazy people never think they’re crazy)
But I would note purely as an observation - we had 3 young players in the last match, they all looked well prepared, and played their roles well. Lawrie and Leilua particularly looked notably more at home and up to pace than their previous games.
Is it delusional to think that coaching might have something to do with that? Is it even slightly possible that actually there has been a plan and by the results so far - it’s working?

 

[Dragon Revival]

Frank I quite like your side and believe that Ford has a big future being good in both attack and defence and rarely makes a mistake.

 

[Frank Facer]

Frank I quite like your side and believe that Ford has a big future being good in both attack and defence and rarely makes a mistake.

I have only seen a bit of Ford. He looks like a good young footballer. I would like to see him develop physically.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Living overseas I don’t see any of the lower grades... I had high hopes for Kerr this year... any feedback as to how he is going ?

Think of Jamal Idris...………….heaps of potential, but a lot of marshmellow about his play.

 

[muzby]

For those going, pre drinks at precinct hotel in Richmond from about 4pm..

Normally we’d reserve an area for dragons fans but it’s a Thursday arvo..

Just look for the red v’s..

 

[getsmarty]

GAME DAY


Game day information: Round 17
Author
Dragons.com.au dragons.com.au
Timestamp
Mon 2 Jul 2018, 04:49 PM

The St George Illawarra Dragons will play the Melbourne Storm on Thursday, July 5 at AAMI Park

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https://www.dragons.com.au/news/2018/07/02/game-day-information-round-17/

 

[Old Timer]

I dont think I’m delusional (but crazy people never think they’re crazy)
But I would note purely as an observation - we had 3 young players in the last match, they all looked well prepared, and played their roles well. Lawrie and Leilua particularly looked notably more at home and up to pace than their previous games.
Is it delusional to think that coaching might have something to do with that? Is it even slightly possible that actually there has been a plan and by the results so far - it’s working?

Last week was against a rabble with an almost full compliment of 1st graders around them so IMO a very different scenario.
This week it is against the most professional team in the last 10 years or so, at a venue we have no decent history and being part of a squad with a lot of inexperienced players who will be required to play very big minutes so we will see how it pans out.
IMO we could have done a far better job thus far in preparing these guys.
Of course much is going to depend on the team selected so I wait with interest to see that tomorrow

 

[Dragon66]

Been OS for the past six weeks but have been keeping up with the games and forum.

Just a couple of comments on this weeks game.

Much as McGregor can talk the talk about such things as “game management” , “key moments”, and “taking opportunities” etc and he is very good at it. I still think his biggest failure is his ability to adapt the team selections to the strength and weaknesses of opposing teams.

Thankfully this season other than resting Friz last week the team has been at full strength and mostly injury free.
This week is a real test for McGregor’s team selections.

Looking at Melbourne first, because of SOO they are very vulnerable. All their key players in the backline are out, but the still they have a full forward pack, and SMITH.
We have to match them in the forwards and look to our backs to win the game.

So here’ s my take on this weeks team.

1. Dufty
2. Mann. - imo he should not play in the halves. What Widdop needs is a game manager which Hunt has been outstanding. But Mann with Widdop is like the Marshall/Widdop era - two five eights and no direction. But Mann has to be in the team.
3. Herbert - if we truly believe he is of first grade standard then this week against a weaken Melbourne backline is his chance to stand out. Plus he can run AND pass at the same time something the Aitken has trouble doing.
4. Lafai
4. McDonald
6. Widdop
7. Nichols - should be a suitable foil for Widdop. Has a sharp football brain, is solid and a very good tactical kicker. I believe he is a competent defensive player.

8. Graham
9. McInnes
10.LAM
11. Host
12. Aitken - for this game only. In the centres he plays like an edge player anyway. He is also a very strong tackler. Should be a good partner with Herbert.
13. Sele

14. Latimore
15. Lawrie
16. Nighty - he can come on and stiffen up the middle as required, plus cover for any backline injuries.
17. Leilua - is only an impact player at this stage of his career but late in the game, if we have the opportunity for him he could do some serious damage.

With this backline we should be able to score a reasonable amount of points, and Host and Aitken should be able to make an impact on the edges. Our middle forwards are strong and with Nichols our backline should see plenty of ball.

Jai Field to me is a very good touch footballer, and Melbourne, even with a weaken team is to well organised to risk him in the side. So no place in the team from me.

We need strong forwards to contain the Melbourne go forward, and strong running backs to wreck so havoc with some good ball movement.

I think this side can do that.

 

[JDHD]

I’d be reminding Cam Smith of that time Latimore punched him in the dick every chance I got if I were on the field.

 

[JDHD]

I dont think I’m delusional (but crazy people never think they’re crazy)
But I would note purely as an observation - we had 3 young players in the last match, they all looked well prepared, and played their roles well. Lawrie and Leilua particularly looked notably more at home and up to pace than their previous games.
Is it delusional to think that coaching might have something to do with that? Is it even slightly possible that actually there has been a plan and by the results so far - it’s working?

You’re not delusional. People just have too much pride to admit they might have been wrong about Mary.

 

[epDragon62]

I would go

1 Dufty
2 McDonald
3 Aitken
4 Lafai
5 Mann
6 Widdop
7 Nicholls
13 Sele
12 Lucky
11 Host
10 Ah Mau
9 McInnes
8 Graham

14 Nightingale
15 Lawrie
16 Latimore
17 Ford

Another option could be to move Aitken to start in the second row and bring in Herbert as his centre replacement, with Ford dropping out of the 17.

Replace Ford with Kerr if he (Ford) is not permitted to play. I would also like to see Herbert on for Nighty but have no expectation of seeing that, and Nighty’s experience may be invaluable.

 

[True_Believer]

I dont think I’m delusional (but crazy people never think they’re crazy)
But I would note purely as an observation - we had 3 young players in the last match, they all looked well prepared, and played their roles well. Lawrie and Leilua particularly looked notably more at home and up to pace than their previous games.
Is it delusional to think that coaching might have something to do with that? Is it even slightly possible that actually there has been a plan and by the results so far - it’s working?

I agree. You’ve got 3 players who all stepped up and did their job.

Take a look at the differences in their game:

• Host playing longer minutes than he has previously – seemingly without effort and without major game time in NRL
  
  
• Lawrie stepping up and doing his job with around 20 minutes game time to date
  
  
• Luc, based on his previous time in first grade, has obviously made some improvements to his game and showed signs of progression
  

There has to be some work being done by the coaching staff in the background to prepare these players. This isn’t all based on the individual’s skill – although I’m sure some of it is attributable to this. And that is a great advertisement for the recruitment team to be able to identify and retain those with the most promise.

Let’s look at this game – how many positions do we NEED to fill? 6? Even if we rotated 6 players through the team during the games to date (and we had a crystal ball so we knew this many players were needed), you end up probably giving most of the players around 40-60 minutes total first grade game time before you hit this point. Does that prepare them for this game? I would say hardly. Unless you are picking 2 and sticking with those players to the exclusion of all others, you aren’t going to be able to give them enough game time to adequately prepare them. And realistically, would you be replacing the current NRL players (who are performing) with youngsters just to get them game time? I know I would prefer to have my best players on the field as often and as long as possible.

What is the definition of preparation? 20 minutes total? 2 full games? Does preparation not include any sort of work outside of NRL game time? It’s great to say ‘prepare’ them. But what is your interpretation of preparation and how do you achieve it?

Unless we win this game, Mary will be on a hiding to nothing. Some people on here have been building this scenario up from the start of the season and, finally, at round 17, in the midst of origin and significant unforeseeable disruption, they may finally get to say “see, I told you so”.