Round 19 Vs Sharks

[mxlegend99]

We had a stack more possession yet took quick thinking from the left 1st set after halftime and Api at the end to get the win

That would be our game management. We like to suffocate teams and dominate field position and possession. We don't force our hand.

We had a few guys trying to force their hands in that first half and you could see Nathan's frustration when they were not sticking to the game plan. He wanted to wear them down a bit and strike. Others seemed to panic at being down by 10.

Last nights conditions were not really suited to taking big risks. Sharks two tries both came off us screwing up kick contests early in the game. Once we were on top with field position that became a non issue for us.

I don't think we could keep teams to 2 or less tries so consistently if we had any other 7. He makes the oppositions job a nightmare to get attacking opportunities.

The only thing he cant control though are if his backs make errors that give the opposition cheap ball and free attacking opportunities. Though he tends to minimise the pressure his backs get under once he is ontop in the field position battle.

The best part of last night was all our origin guys had barely trained with the squad since Origin 1 yet were able to claw their way back and turn it into the game we wanted. We just destroyed a top 4 side in peak form after giving them a 10 point head start and with our guys having had minimal time together the past 6 weeks.

 

[betcats]

Nathan was handily outplayed by his opposite both with the boot and ball running, wasn't close. If we had Hynes and they had Cleary last night we'd have won 30 nil.

Haynes had a couple of poor moments tbf a couple bad chip kicks turning over possession cheaply and threw a terrible pass for an intercept also it was never hitting the mark and even it it did our cover defence would’ve had a good chance to clean up. He had a couple nice kicks and ran well he didn’t do much else after the first 30 Nathan was much better.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

As for the Eels. They won't be top 4. Likely play Storm in Finals. So will go out before they play us

Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if they miss the 8 given the run they have (though they shouldn't). But we've lost like 6 games in the last 3 years, and 2 of them were against that rabble, with a one-point and a two-point win thrown in there as well.

 

[Hamstring awareness]

@kinghippo

Kenny tackles at a better rate that api who is the best defensive 9 in the comp..

Kenny 93.2%
Api 92%.

Yeah api plays the 80 every week and kenny often not. But hes a brilliant defender.

Kenny 2022 avgs
Error ever 133mins
Penalty every 105mins
Avg 28mins a game
Tackles 93.2%

So your talking crap. 5 penalties and 4 errors in 19 games...

Want to know who gives away penalties for the panthers @kinghippo

These stats need to be read in the context that Kenny has averaged ~30 minutes per game this season. Of course others who play 80 or close to it will have higher penalties conceded and lower tackle efficiency.

 

[snickers007]

All things considered, I thought it was a great win.

Couple of unPantherlike moments eg. both Api and Yeo passes hitting no-one and going to ground, players running into each other etc. Probably fairly indicates the lack of full squad training we've had over the past 6-7 weeks.

Thought the Sharks were lucky to get their tries, one from a lottery ball kick, and another on the back of an error. Given the circumstances (and the way the Sharks play) we could have easily rolled over. But we did very well to wrestle back control, and slowly chip away at them.

I think the Sharks have all the tools necessary to trouble us, and had a great game plan yesterday. Their big forwards were very hard to put down when we tried to tackle high, and they got fast play the balls when we tackled low. It's a credit to our scramble and fitness that we were able to effectively manage both.

Best on ground were Api, Cleary and Leniu for mine. Very happy with Spencer actually. Got his hands on the ball immediately after coming on, and even though he made a mistake in the play the ball, he didn't go into his shell.

Would like to see a lot more patience against the Eels next week. Few too many forced offloads, and some terrible mistakes on tackle 1s in attacking positions.

Bring on the worms next week.

 

[Iamback]

That would be our game management. We like to suffocate teams and dominate field position and possession. We don't force our hand.

We had a few guys trying to force their hands in that first half and you could see Nathan's frustration when they were not sticking to the game plan. He wanted to wear them down a bit and strike. Others seemed to panic at being down by 10.

Last nights conditions were not really suited to taking big risks. Sharks two tries both came off us screwing up kick contests early in the game. Once we were on top with field position that became a non issue for us.

I don't think we could keep teams to 2 or less tries so consistently if we had any other 7. He makes the oppositions job a nightmare to get attacking opportunities.

The only thing he cant control though are if his backs make errors that give the opposition cheap ball and free attacking opportunities. Though he tends to minimise the pressure his backs get under once he is ontop in the field position battle.

The best part of last night was all our origin guys had barely trained with the squad since Origin 1 yet were able to claw their way back and turn it into the game we wanted. We just destroyed a top 4 side in peak form after giving them a 10 point head start and with our guys having had minimal time together the past 6 weeks.

There are a few halves who play the same style and can do a similar job. Hell even a hack like SOS looks NRL standard in our structure.

The halves I speak of are Reynolds, DCE and Hunt - Look at the Broncs now with Reynolds

Dragons are a basket case without Hunt.

They all can play off the back foot and are pretty good eyes up halfbacks. That is what is stopping Cleary from getting to the elite status. Though to be fair all are older.

We have had a dream run with injury. The only benchie I would trust for long minutes is Sorensen. The rest would let a soft try or 2 in. So instead of keeping teams to 10 points it becomes 20... That is why we need to come up with plan B

 

[Girds89]

The result would have been reversed if Hynes and cleary had swapped teams.

Hynes team had all the early momentum and they could only score 2x 50/50 tries with a shitload of luck.

Sharks halves were terrible at managing the game

I actually thought hynes kicking game was very very good last night.

All year i think i havent been convinced 7 is his best spot but i think he did a lot of good stuff last night.

I dont really think it had much to do with game management. They just started to make a lot more mistakes the last 55mins.

Hynes bombs were landing 2 or 3m out from our line. Hes long kicks were really good and he looked dangerous running. The sharks certainly didnt lose cause of his game management. They didnt have the fitness to match the intensity they came with in the first 20 and when we got on top the fatigue and errors kicked in.

But nicho was probably easily thier best and his kicking game kept it to within 10. He was let dowm by dumb errors from others.

 

[Girds89]

These stats need to be read in the context that Kenny has averaged ~30 minutes per game this season. Of course others who play 80 or close to it will have higher penalties conceded and lower tackle efficiency.

Of course.. but the idea kenny is an avg defender is just plain wrong.

And 5 penalties and 4 errors in 19 games certainly isnt a lot.

Kenny isnt flashy at all. Hes slow. Not a very crafty 9, doesnt have a kicking game.

But he puts his body on the line every time hes on the field and hes a good a defender at 9 as probs anyone in the comp bar api.

Never seen a hooker chop 115kg blokes down like api can.

Generally ivan will bring on kenny when we are on and have the momentum.

Api stays on and plays 9 and kenny plays the middle forward role.

Kenny doesnt need to make huge meters or hsve super impactful runs. 9 times out of 10 when we have momentum dylan or the wingers are almost bringing a kick back to the 40 or 50 to start the set.

From their we do our thing and play attacking ball almost every play and kenny isnt required.

Than kenny really aims up in defence with awesome line speed and along with api etc and that is how we keep teams in their own end and maintain momentum. The work kenny does when his on in defence isnt fancy, often goes unnotticed but it goes a long way to us maintaining momentum through the key 45 to 70min period where we just physically grind teams out of it with continous attack.

Im all for us bringing in a better hooker if we can.

But kenny will always be a top defender and give his all when hes on.

I think the key position on the bench really is salmon.

I bagged salmon in the preseason. Couldnt believe he was going to be in the 17. But look, i really dont think hes done much wrong in his limited oppurtunities.

But ivan doesnt trust him to come on in the crucial moments. Only comes on when theres an injury or games done.

I dont know whether we change whats working but i think a bench of

Kenny
Soro
Spencer
Eiso

Or
Kenny
Soro
Eiso/spencer
C smith

Probs offers a bit more.

Anyway. Cant believe if cows lose today we are 5 wins in front. Incredible!!!

 

[Iamback]

I actually thought hynes kicking game was very very good last night.

All year i think i havent been convinced 7 is his best spot but i think he did a lot of good stuff last night.

I dont really think it had much to do with game management. They just started to make a lot more mistakes the last 55mins.

Hynes bombs were landing 2 or 3m out from our line. Hes long kicks were really good and he looked dangerous running. The sharks certainly didnt lose cause of his game management. They didnt have the fitness to match the intensity they came with in the first 20 and when we got on top the fatigue and errors kicked in.

But nicho was probably easily thier best and his kicking game kept it to within 10. He was let dowm by dumb errors from others.

I actually looked at the numbers after this post

Hynes had more kick metres from 1 less kick
More metres gained
Made 20 tackles 1 missed. Cleary 17 tackles 4 missed

neither had a try or try assist

 

[Hamstring awareness]

Of course.. but the idea kenny is an avg defender is just plain wrong.

And 5 penalties and 4 errors in 19 games certainly isnt a lot.

Kenny isnt flashy at all. Hes slow. Not a very crafty 9, doesnt have a kicking game.

But he puts his body on the line every time hes on the field and hes a good a defender at 9 as probs anyone in the comp bar api.

Never seen a hooker chop 115kg blokes down like api can.

Generally ivan will bring on kenny when we are on and have the momentum.

Api stays on and plays 9 and kenny plays the middle forward role.

Kenny doesnt need to make huge meters or hsve super impactful runs. 9 times out of 10 when we have momentum dylan or the wingers are almost bringing a kick back to the 40 or 50 to start the set.

From their we do our thing and play attacking ball almost every play and kenny isnt required.

Than kenny really aims up in defence with awesome line speed and along with api etc and that is how we keep teams in their own end and maintain momentum. The work kenny does when his on in defence isnt fancy, often goes unnotticed but it goes a long way to us maintaining momentum through the key 45 to 70min period where we just physically grind teams out of it with continous attack.

Im all for us bringing in a better hooker if we can.

But kenny will always be a top defender and give his all when hes on.

I think the key position on the bench really is salmon.

I bagged salmon in the preseason. Couldnt believe he was going to be in the 17. But look, i really dont think hes done much wrong in his limited oppurtunities.

But ivan doesnt trust him to come on in the crucial moments. Only comes on when theres an injury or games done.

I dont know whether we change whats working but i think a bench of

Kenny
Soro
Spencer
Eiso

Or
Kenny
Soro
Eiso/spencer
C smith

Probs offers a bit more.

Anyway. Cant believe if cows lose today we are 5 wins in front. Incredible!!!

Yeah definitely agree on quite a few of these points mate.

 

[Girds89]

I actually looked at the numbers after this post

Hynes had more kick metres from 1 less kick
More metres gained
Made 20 tackles 1 missed. Cleary 17 tackles 4 missed

neither had a try or try assist

Yep.

People see us win and cleary is a gun and the channel 9 and fox commentators always froth him regardless to how he actually plays.

They get paid to entertain with a bit of input inbetween.

I hadnt seen the stats for the 7s but im not suprised nicho out played him in terms of stats last night.

It was just obvious watching... again i keep harping on...not trying to knock nath... weve lost one game all year...

Hes a gun.

Its just when hes under the pump and this is origin.. last years finals 2020 finals... he seems to go into hes shell a bit..he stays calm but he is reluctant to take a risk to change the momentum...

Which i dont get why? Hes shown time and time again he is a brilliant long kicker. He can kick early. But he normally only does it when we are on the front foot.

I know they love the bomb tactic for a few different reasons...
Gets time to set the line.
Mire hang time gives time for defenders to get down there etc..

But he just needs to read the game a bit better when its in the balance or were down...

We dont have kiks or api next year.. thats probs 12 points a game u can kiss goodbye

 

[martielang]

Hynes outplayed Cleary? Nah.

Hynes' game management went MIA when the game was on the line, while Cleary stood up. I don't think Cleary was immense the full 80 and was pretty conservative the whole night, but when we required a calming influence and some field position he did what he needed to do.

 

[Iamback]

Hynes outplayed Cleary? Nah.

Hynes' game management went MIA when the game was on the line, while Cleary stood up. I don't think Cleary was immense the full 80 and was pretty conservative the whole night, but when we required a calming influence and some field position he did what he needed to do.

It was one of those games where no one stood out for me.

Though lets look at the 2nd half alone

We won possession 57% to 43%
Territory 69%-31%
We ran for 300m more
Had double post contact
3-0 line breaks

We had 12 kicks to their 10
They had 356 m to our 267 kick metres
We had 7 attacking kicks. Which got us 1 repeat set
They had 4 which got them 2 repeat sets

It was a game where our all round class won it rather than certain individuals stood up.

 

[mxlegend99]

It was one of those games where no one stood out for me.

Though lets look at the 2nd half alone

We won possession 57% to 43%
Territory 69%-31%
We ran for 300m more
Had double post contact
3-0 line breaks

We had 12 kicks to their 10
They had 356 m to our 267 kick metres
We had 7 attacking kicks. Which got us 1 repeat set
They had 4 which got them 2 repeat sets

It was a game where our all round class won it rather than certain individuals stood up.

For the kicks. The only way possible for us to have higher kicking metres than Sharks would be if we kicked it dead.

We dominated the territory. We had to put in short kicks. The kick metres stat is one of the most irrelevant as a team losing the territory battle will rack up metres trying to get it back. The team winning territory needs to kick shorter.

The fact we dominated possession and field position after Sharks ran riot early shows just how effective our kicking game and game management was.

 

[Iamback]

For the kicks. The only way possible for us to have higher kicking metres than Sharks would be if we kicked it dead.

We dominated the territory. We had to put in short kicks. The kick metres stat is one of the most irrelevant as a team losing the territory battle will rack up metres trying to get it back. The team winning territory needs to kick shorter.

The fact we dominated possession and field position after Sharks ran riot early shows just how effective our kicking game and game management was.

So the 300m extra run metres we had the 2nd half played no part in the territory?

They had only one forward crack 100m

Sorensen cracked 160m
Spencer 100m

About the time they came on the tempo changed.

 

[mxlegend99]

So the 300m extra run metres we had the 2nd half played no part in the territory?

They had only one forward crack 100m

Sorensen cracked 160m
Spencer 100m

About the time they came on the tempo changed.

That's all part of game management

We had them working it off their line with great kicking and they struggled to make ground.

When they had to put in a long kick off a 20m gained set we're making the same metres they did on the first carry or two.

Honestly don't even understand what you're trying to argue. The stats just show that our halves destroyed their halves with game management.

We kicked for less metres because we were able to pin them where we wanted with our kicks. Meaning they also ran for less metres. Having run for less metres they had to put in longer kicks and it made our metre gainage easy.

The stats you posted are a result of us managing the game better than they did. We slowly wrestled away their early domination and never gave it back. Nathans game management was perfect.

Trying to use Hynes kick metres as evidence he was better is beyond laughable. Nathan doesnt need to be flashy to turn the game into the one we want to play. He won a clive churchill medal by doing that. Without him the Sharks would have gone on with that game IMO. Obviously requires his teammates to follow his lead. But initially they were trying to rush their way back into the game rather than grind their way back in and maintain it.

Each to his own. But the stats you used around kicking metres and run metres are simply a result of great game management. Nathan has a tendency to make life hell for the opposition to get out of their 20m zone. It's a long grind to pin them there. But once he has it tends to take an error from us before they get a sniff up our end again.

 

[Iamback]

That's all part of game management

We had them working it off their line with great kicking and they struggled to make ground.

When they had to put in a long kick off a 20m gained set we're making the same metres they did on the first carry or two.

Honestly don't even understand what you're trying to argue. The stats just show that our halves destroyed their halves with game management.

We kicked for less metres because we were able to pin them where we wanted with our kicks. Meaning they also ran for less metres. Having run for less metres they had to put in longer kicks and it made our metre gainage easy.

The stats you posted are a result of us managing the game better than they did. We slowly wrestled away their early domination and never gave it back. Nathans game management was perfect.

Trying to use Hynes kick metres as evidence he was better is beyond laughable. Nathan doesnt need to be flashy to turn the game into the one we want to play. He won a clive churchill medal by doing that. Without him the Sharks would have gone on with that game IMO. Obviously requires his teammates to follow his lead. But initially they were trying to rush their way back into the game rather than grind their way back in and maintain it.

Each to his own. But the stats you used around kicking metres and run metres are simply a result of great game management. Nathan has a tendency to make life hell for the opposition to get out of their 20m zone. It's a long grind to pin them there. But once he has it tends to take an error from us before they get a sniff up our end again.

What plays were turned by kicking though?

Our back 3 doubled their back 3 metres gained - so our sets started well

Our forwards owned their pack too. Especially our bench so we were getting more metres during the sets

So it was a good team performance without being great

We had 40 tackles inside the 20 to 13 and people want to give a play maker man of the match? This is why forwards never win Dally M's

I don't think we had one but it has to be Sorensen if I was forced to pick one

 

[Girds89]

That's all part of game management

We had them working it off their line with great kicking and they struggled to make ground.

When they had to put in a long kick off a 20m gained set we're making the same metres they did on the first carry or two.

Honestly don't even understand what you're trying to argue. The stats just show that our halves destroyed their halves with game management.

We kicked for less metres because we were able to pin them where we wanted with our kicks. Meaning they also ran for less metres. Having run for less metres they had to put in longer kicks and it made our metre gainage easy.

The stats you posted are a result of us managing the game better than they did. We slowly wrestled away their early domination and never gave it back. Nathans game management was perfect.

Trying to use Hynes kick metres as evidence he was better is beyond laughable. Nathan doesnt need to be flashy to turn the game into the one we want to play. He won a clive churchill medal by doing that. Without him the Sharks would have gone on with that game IMO. Obviously requires his teammates to follow his lead. But initially they were trying to rush their way back into the game rather than grind their way back in and maintain it.

Each to his own. But the stats you used around kicking metres and run metres are simply a result of great game management. Nathan has a tendency to make life hell for the opposition to get out of their 20m zone. It's a long grind to pin them there. But once he has it tends to take an error from us before they get a sniff up our end again.

Nowhere in your post do you reference we have the best line speed in defence in the comp by along long way.

Nath can do hes avg bombs that they catch on the 20m line and they still have to kick from their 40m line on tackle 5..

You and franklin are both trying to use stats to prove an argument that cant really be proven.

I think nicho kicked terrifically against us.. most his bombs landed right on our try line and hes long kicks we had to collect off the grass.

Nath had plenty of nice kicks too.. but hes bombs that land on the 20m line all game really need fixing. Cant credit those avg bombs to good game management when really its blokes like api and yeo and fish in the middle whose line speed and desire in defence to just dominant the ruck and take blokes backwards really is remarkable.

Our defence really is the unsung hero a lot for us. Its what gets us on the front foot.. nath can have an off night with the boot like he has a lot this year and our defence comes up trumps and just keeps teams pinned inside their own half.

 

[Iamback]

Nowhere in your post do you reference we have the best line speed in defence in the comp by along long way.

Nath can do hes avg bombs that they catch on the 20m line and they still have to kick from their 40m line on tackle 5..

You and franklin are both trying to use stats to prove an argument that cant really be proven.

I think nicho kicked terrifically against us.. most his bombs landed right on our try line and hes long kicks we had to collect off the grass.

Nath had plenty of nice kicks too.. but hes bombs that land on the 20m line all game really need fixing. Cant credit those avg bombs to good game management when really its blokes like api and yeo and fish in the middle whose line speed and desire in defence to just dominant the ruck and take blokes backwards really is remarkable.

Our defence really is the unsung hero a lot for us. Its what gets us on the front foot.. nath can have an off night with the boot like he has a lot this year and our defence comes up trumps and just keeps teams pinned inside their own half.

Back 3 early in the set
Into our defence wins us games

We have seen that when halves and other key players are out

We won both games without the Origin guys out. SOS hasn't lost a game, We will still dominate with no Luai in the side

That is more than just a kicking game getting us wins

 

[Girds89]

QUOTE="Iamback, post: 15325775, member: 53624"]
Back 3 early in the set
Into our defence wins us games

We have seen that when halves and other key players are out

We won both games without the Origin guys out. SOS hasn't lost a game, We will still dominate with no Luai in the side

That is more than just a kicking game getting us wins
[/QUOTE]

I think theres a lot that goes into us being so succesful.

Desire, team comradery, good coaching, a few guns, blokes killing it for unders like api edwards etc.

Just in regards to naths kicking-
All im saying is the bombs need to land on the 5m line not the 20...

And i think its be shown through our tough games this year and last year and in origin that nath seems to wait to kick early or break out of the bomb game plan just a bit to long.

Hes a brilliant kicker. Always room for improvement