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Round 20 v Storm

chrisD

Coach
Messages
11,462
Without having to trawl through the nonsense in this topic, for comedy sake can I get the quick version on the current reason Staines being shit isn’t his fault? Who is to blame now that Momo isn’t around to not pass it to him?
 

WestyLife

Bench
Messages
4,182
Edwards is coping heaps on here.i still think he is playing injured .his take off on the high ball in not where it was. Having said that he is our best option regardless of stats non stats

He was never going to be a superstar. Strong runner, fit and hard worker who struggles for form when coming back from injury. Was always going to need to be upgraded to get the best out of the position eventually.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
926
One clutch play doesn't make him a clutch player.

Edwards was good last year (without being great) and started the year great. It looked like he had finally started to get his passing game going through that period.

Been ordinary since. I also remember him bombing a try in the GF when he couldn't perform a simple draw and pass inserting himself into the line at centre.

Upon reflection it seems as though he is only capable of good passes in set plays - and only if the set play goes exactly as rehearsed. Other fullbacks seem to be able to adjust on the fly if a set play isn't smooth - and the best ones have great instinct and put themselves in great positions and can just ad lib play and create something out of nothing. Edwards seemingly can't do either.

He is a Robotic player who fills a role if everybody else is in great form/uninjured. This season, and in particular this game (along with the Tigers game) has exposed him for the limited player he is. If we want to have a Dynasty type squad - we have to look past Edwards as our FB in the medium term.

I've said this at least 1/2 a dozen times before - but
 

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,079
I would say Fish and To'o have been among our biggest improvers(again), Burton at centre has been excellent consistently, his halves form has been patchy. But agree with the rest for the most part besides maybe Critta. He has quiet games but he has not had many bad ones imo and his defence has improved massively, he is a very good defensive centre this season.

I have noticed that about Critta as well. He shuts down opposition Centres - even gun ones - down like they are nothing. He holds his edge down extremely well. Makes great decisions.

Regarding Fish and To'o they are both in excellent form but I'd say they were in almost the exact same form as last year so for me that is a wash. Upon reflection you are probably right about To'o - he has upped his level in particular his carries - though his strike rate for tries is down.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
926
Without having to trawl through the nonsense in this topic, for comedy sake can I get the quick version on the current reason Staines being shit isn’t his fault? Who is to blame now that Momo isn’t around to not pass it to him?

People want more from edwards in attack. Think he works hard but thats about it.

People are happy with how charlie is going and think he or critta need to be given the 1 because edwards has been rubbish since injury.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
22,078
No hes not haha. Cmon mate.. hynes is a freak ball player. Hes been signed to play in the halfs at cronulla thats how good he is. Daine laurie has all the skills of a half.

Latrell is predominatley are runner. He is at his best when hes looking to run over people. Passes better left to right and not as strong the other way. But can put a person through a gap or give a good cut out.


Critta has been very good in d. A major reason id be apprehensive about moving him as momo is crap. Tago is largely untested. Nadens d is poor and even burton has been only ok in d but good in attack.

Sorry mate but I disagree, to me Latrell is the best. Cody Walker is right there also, Cody has more deception in his short passing but I think Latrell can spot and hit the long ball like no one else and is very clever with his short passing also.

Hynes I haven't seen enough of to make a genuine call but from what I have seen so far Latrell and Tommy have him covered for ball playing.
 

WestyLife

Bench
Messages
4,182
People want more from edwards in attack. Think he works hard but thats about it.

People are happy with how charlie is going and think he or critta need to be given the 1 because edwards has been rubbish since injury.

Edwards has always struggled with form coming back from injury and always struggle with even a basic pass. These things are objectively true things about him as a player.
 

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,079
People want more from edwards in attack. Think he works hard but thats about it.

People are happy with how charlie is going and think he or critta need to be given the 1 because edwards has been rubbish since injury.

Perfect summary. Far better than I can manage - I am far too verbose.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
22,078
I'd argue that Tommy does have the same level of skill and Latrell is pretty close BUT they don't need to use it as much nor rely on their ballplaying because they are freak athletes and runners. They have two stings to their bows. Moylan etc are far more one dimensional and reliant purely on skills and smarts.

This is fair and I think maybe the fact that Latrell and Tommy can destroy team in multiple ways leads some to underrate their ball playing compared to guys who are only ball players like a Moylan, but when I watch them I see two guys who can carry the ball in two hands, double pump and go short or long, inside or out, they hold the pass up perfectly when needed and fire off cut outs as good or better than most halves in this comp and they rarely force a bad pass. They are two freaks tbh.
 

chrisD

Coach
Messages
11,462
People want more from edwards in attack. Think he works hard but thats about it.

People are happy with how charlie is going and think he or critta need to be given the 1 because edwards has been rubbish since injury.
Strange, Charlie’s output is f**king dire compared to what he was doing outside Momo and people weren’t happy then. Hell you could even take his 2 Storm games for a direct comparison.

Very strange.

Couldn’t do the same for Crichton though because he f**ked tries having been fed 2 on 1 situations in both games. He’s going pretty consistently.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
926
Sorry mate but I disagree, to me Latrell is the best. Cody Walker is right there also, Cody has more deception in his short passing but I think Latrell can spot and hit the long ball like no one else and is very clever with his short passing also.

Hynes I haven't seen enough of to make a genuine call but from what I have seen so far Latrell and Tommy have him covered for ball playing.
Ponga is 3x better at ball playing than latrell. Easy... hands down. Walker is a 5/8. Also walker is rubbish without reynolds because his similar to luai. Needs an organiser.

Appart from nath being out, ponga was the key difference why qld won origin 3. He is so dangerous with the ball in hand and is a natural ball player and brilliant runner.

He could and has played in the halfs.

In terms of ball playing fbs based on their ball playing abilty first...

1. Hynes
2. Ponga
3. Laurie
4. Gutho (dont rate gutho as a runner or anything else but he creates a lot for them with ball in hand)
5. Latrell
6. Turbo
7. Teddy

Thats not to say latrell isnt a good passer. His very good but his not up there with the top 3 in terms of vision. Those top 3 all have genuine playmaking abilities and history of playing in the halfs.

Latrell is a brilliant player but yeah definitley not up there with the best. He probably at his best...has the best allround game tho amd is a genuine match winner. Critta is a long long long way of being his level and personally im not sure whether he will ever get to that level. People thinking he can go there and have an influence like latrell are not right.

Maybe in 2 or 3 years...maybe. But he just doesnt possess that match winning ability or latrells ball skills atm
 

Fangs

First Grade
Messages
5,543
Charles has been pretty good this year I think but his output was too low against the Storm. Probably the first time this year I would have preferred Mansour to be in his place (Especially with To'o out, who is Mansour mk2).

There will probably be changes. Difficult to say if he will be axed considering our options and how close we are to the finals.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
22,078
Ponga is 3x better at ball playing than latrell. Easy... hands down. Walker is a 5/8. Also walker is rubbish without reynolds because his similar to luai. Needs an organiser.

Appart from nath being out, ponga was the key difference why qld won origin 3. He is so dangerous with the ball in hand and is a natural ball player and brilliant runner.

He could and has played in the halfs.

In terms of ball playing fbs based on their ball playing abilty first...

1. Hynes
2. Ponga
3. Laurie
4. Gutho (dont rate gutho as a runner or anything else but he creates a lot for them with ball in hand)
5. Latrell
6. Turbo
7. Teddy

Thats not to say latrell isnt a good passer. His very good but his not up there with the top 3 in terms of vision. Those top 3 all have genuine playmaking abilities and history of playing in the halfs.

Latrell is a brilliant player but yeah definitley not up there with the best. He probably at his best...has the best allround game tho amd is a genuine match winner. Critta is a long long long way of being his level and personally im not sure whether he will ever get to that level. People thinking he can go there and have an influence like latrell are not right.

Maybe in 2 or 3 years...maybe. But he just doesnt possess that match winning ability or latrells ball skills atm


Im sorry mate but Latrell is the best IMO, telling me Ponga is 3 times better means nothing to me. Ponga is a very good ball player no doubt but I have Latrell and Turbo above him, you know the main reasons we dominated games 1 and 2. I suggest we agree to disagree cause I really doubt my mind will change on this ive watched them years it will take seeing something different to change it.
 

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,079
Latrell is a brilliant player but yeah definitley not up there with the best. He probably at his best...has the best allround game tho amd is a genuine match winner. Critta is a long long long way of being his level and personally im not sure whether he will ever get to that level. People thinking he can go there and have an influence like latrell are not right.

Not with our coach that is for sure. I'd like to see Critta under Bennett or Bellamy.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
22,078
Charles has been pretty good this year I think but his output was too low against the Storm. Probably the first time this year I would have preferred Mansour to be in his place (Especially with To'o out, who is Mansour mk2).

There will probably be changes. Difficult to say if he will be axed considering our options and how close we are to the finals.



Yeah I get that re Charlie against Melbourne this weekend. FTR I suggested yesterday it might be time to give Charlie a rest with Bizza out.

I got started talking about Charlie after he was being hammered yesterday I never suggested he should be the FB right now, people who can't be bothered to read actual comments tend to make every discussion one side or the other but there are multiple opinions being put forward here and no two are exactly the same.

Nothing Charlie is doing changes my opinion that Dylan is to limited with his attack, he takes bad options far to often. As the reaslist said he runs the play as it has been practiced, he doesnt posses the vision or ball playing skills to do anything else which is why we see him dumping passes to players in worse positon more often of late. With players out our plays are slower and more predictable.
 

WestyLife

Bench
Messages
4,182
Yeah I get that re Charlie against Melbourne this weekend. FTR I suggested yesterday it might be time to give Charlie a rest with Bizza out.

I got started talking about Charlie after he was being hammered yesterday I never suggested he should be the FB right now, people who can't be bothered to read actual comments tend to make every discussion one side or the other but there are multiple opinions being put forward here and no two are exactly the same.

Nothing Charlie is doing changes my opinion that Dylan is to limited with his attack, he takes bad options far to often. As the reaslist said he runs the play as it has been practiced, he doesnt posses the vision or ball playing skills to do anything else which is why we see him dumping passes to players in worse positon more often of late. With players out our plays are slower and more predictable.

Staines isn't a moylan type ballplayer but his passing does come very naturally. He passes accurately and smoothly both ways while at pace. The Eels game he called a shortside play as first receiver which got Naden into an overlap. Nothing spectacular but he would definitely compliment the team well. I definitely see a RTS/Minichello style rotation working for us with Edwards handling defence and kick returns. Staines can do some set plays etc. No reason not to use both players strengths for the overall benefit of the team when both are primarily fullbacks.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
926
Staines isn't a moylan type ballplayer but his passing does come very naturally. He passes accurately and smoothly both ways while at pace. The Eels game he called a shortside play as first receiver which got Naden into an overlap. Nothing spectacular but he would definitely compliment the team well. I definitely see a RTS/Minichello style rotation working for us with Edwards handling defence and kick returns. Staines can do some set plays etc. No reason not to use both players strengths for the overall benefit of the team when both are primarily fullbacks.
Ive said all year ic needs to create more plays to get charlie involved. Charlie really really needs to show some initiative and hunger to get involved to tho.

He looks all to comfortable not doing anything on the wing which is the disturbing bit.
 

WestyLife

Bench
Messages
4,182
Ive said all year ic needs to create more plays to get charlie involved. Charlie really really needs to show some initiative and hunger to get involved to tho.

He looks all to comfortable not doing anything on the wing which is the disturbing bit.

We agree on that. My concern is Ivan being conservative and not a particularly good attacking coach. When Nathan is there the attack is so good because he controls the shape and tempo. Earlier in the year when he was fit both Crichton and Staines showed up in attacking shapes at fullback. That tells me Nathan was telling them what he wanted on the run vs the coaches structures.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
926
We agree on that. My concern is Ivan being conservative and not a particularly good attacking coach. When Nathan is there the attack is so good because he controls the shape and tempo. Earlier in the year when he was fit both Crichton and Staines showed up in attacking shapes at fullback. That tells me Nathan was telling them what he wanted on the run vs the coaches structures.
When nath was fit earlier in the year edwards looked much better in bacline plays too.

No coincidence that edwards like the rest of the team has really struggled with nath out.

The superstars have the ability to bring the best out in those around them.
 

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