Round 20 v Storm

[Kilkenny]

I like posts based on either liking a part of what is said or the entire thing. I don't care who said it. I don't pre judge on user name.

Well you clearly loved his work and it inspired you to throw in a few of your own negative statements.

 

[WestyLife]

Well you clearly loved his work and it inspired you to throw in a few of your own negative statements.

Funny you had plenty to say about Staines against the Eels and he had similar stats to Edwards Vs Storm. You tell me if that standard is worth praise or criticism and I'll follow your lead.

 

[Girds89]

Funny you had plenty to say about Staines against the Eels and he had similar stats to Edwards Vs Storm. You tell me if that standard is worth praise or criticism and I'll follow your lead.

Well we beat eels. Storm belted us so always going to be harder look good when you get smashed obviously!!! But he wasnt at his bsst sure!

Dylans average stats this year put him up there with the top fbs. Which is for all to see on nrl page or zero tackle.

Stats arent everything tho and hes not obviously up there with teddy turbo etc for overall ability..

But most on here literally always always point out or comment instantly whenever dyl makes a mistake. People always on here always roll out....since hes coming back from injury hes been crap and made so many mistakes... yet its proven that he is safer than any other option we have at fb and hes statiscally one of the safiest in the comp.

Betcats tried to make the point wingers have more errors which is fair enough..lets compare apples with apples. Brian too plays for us... is fairly junior in his development. He averages 1.06 errors a game but has about a 300% workrate increase over charlie... so lets errors and literally sometimes 4 or 5 times more work.

Theres a reason we are the best defensive side in the comp. Dylan is very safe at the back. We dont generally make silly mistakes and we are safe coming out of our end.

This "safeness" and non game breaking ability of people like dyl allows cleary to get in a good position to kick and get down the other end and stay there with repeat sets and continous pressure!

Yes hes not the most exciting but its what works for us. Clearys the general and leads them and sets everything up.

Nsw had latrell, turbo, teddy in game 3..probably the 3 most individually talented players in the comp but they couldnt do it without nath..

The work dyl and too do gets us in positions for cleary to dominate.

Start making mistakes and no meters out of own end and all of a sudden your defense isnt as good because you are under constant pressure.

 

[Kilkenny]

Funny you had plenty to say about Staines against the Eels and he had similar stats to Edwards Vs Storm. You tell me if that standard is worth praise or criticism and I'll follow your lead.

Martielang pretty much summed the Edwards - Staines conversations on here perfectly.

Fullbacks/wingers not attempting to take the ball on the full is not a recent phenomenon, happens on a regular basis and there is often valid reasons for it.

In Dylan’s case, the weather was the main factor and last night I’m not sure what caused Charlie to do what he did but I’m sure it had nothing to do with any lack of heart or determination. It happens, just as occasionally players drop the ball, miss tackles, throw forward passes etc etc

100% it happens and will continue to happen.

I thought with the Edwards one, it was rather obvious, or should have been, it was just the wind and the position he found himself in he realised wasn't able to make a play at the ball. Massive over reaction on here which was disappointing. I think with last nights Staines one, I’m only guessing, I assume he simply lost it in flight, lights it happens.

Dylan will be 26 next season, with 1 year remaining on his deal. He‘s had his share of frustrating injuries which have clearly hampered him and his career. I don't think we will re-sign him early and it is likely he will have to be very good in 2022 to earn a new deal.

Just for the record, had a quick look, I didn’t post at all on game day and made three posts 24-36 hours post game. I have inserted them here for your benefit. As you will see, I didn’t have much to say at all, and defended Charlie Staines for his one mistake, despite the hysteria that accompanied a similar mistake from Edwards the week before.

 

[WestyLife]

Well we beat eels. Storm belted us so always going to be harder look good when you get smashed obviously!!! But he wasnt at his bsst sure!

Dylans average stats this year put him up there with the top fbs. Which is for all to see on nrl page or zero tackle.

Stats arent everything tho and hes not obviously up there with teddy turbo etc for overall ability..

But most on here literally always always point out or comment instantly whenever dyl makes a mistake. People always on here always roll out....since hes coming back from injury hes been crap and made so many mistakes... yet its proven that he is safer than any other option we have at fb and hes statiscally one of the safiest in the comp.

Betcats tried to make the point wingers have more errors which is fair enough..lets compare apples with apples. Brian too plays for us... is fairly junior in his development. He averages 1.06 errors a game but has about a 300% workrate increase over charlie... so lets errors and literally sometimes 4 or 5 times more work.

Theres a reason we are the best defensive side in the comp. Dylan is very safe at the back. We dont generally make silly mistakes and we are safe coming out of our end.

This "safeness" and non game breaking ability of people like dyl allows cleary to get in a good position to kick and get down the other end and stay there with repeat sets and continous pressure!

Yes hes not the most exciting but its what works for us. Clearys the general and leads them and sets everything up.

Nsw had latrell, turbo, teddy in game 3..probably the 3 most individually talented players in the comp but they couldnt do it without nath..

The work dyl and too do gets us in positions for cleary to dominate.

Start making mistakes and no meters out of own end and all of a sudden your defense isnt as good because you are under constant pressure.

Staines had 2 errors at fullback and 153 running metres. Not exactly a failure of a day. My point though is if we are being objective then either both of those performances should be praised or criticised as they were very similar. It'd be totally justified if people were being unfair on Dyl but let's be consistent.

 

[martielang]

Bit of recency bias with Edwards, he’s been terrific for the majority of the last 18 months. He’s not a ball player but he doesn’t need to be with 75% of our key players on board. I doubt we ever play again without our two biggest metre eaters and our main attacking spine (being Api, Yeo and Cleary) all out.

Maybe I’m old fashioned but I can forgive Edwards for making mistakes when he’s actually having a crack. At the moment, you’d struggle to say the same about Staines regardless of experience.

 

[Kilkenny]

Funny you had plenty to say about Staines against the Eels and he had similar stats to Edwards Vs Storm. You tell me if that standard is worth praise or criticism and I'll follow your lead.

Just for the record, had a quick look, I didn’t post at all on game day and made three posts 24-36 hours post game. I have inserted them here for your benefit. As you will see, I didn’t have much to say at all, and defended Charlie Staines for his one mistake, despite the hysteria that accompanied a similar mistake from Edwards the week before.

I was kind of looking forward to your apology?

 

[WestyLife]

I was kind of looking forward to your apology?

For staying in this silly conversation when I swore I wouldn't maybe.

 

[Pomoz]

What are u basing staines offence on? Cant be what hes delievered this year. Hes just caught tries and dived over and scored tries that he probably shouldve been scoring. Hasnt done anything else with ball in hand or even looked close to.

That is just such a simplistic view. If it was just "catch the ball and score" everybody would be doing it and they simply don't. He has good anticipation, good agility to catch what are often poor passes (that's a wingers lot, no criticism of our centres intended) and uses his speed and footwork to avoid cover defence. 20 tries in 21 games is not a fluke. Why hasn't Jennings, Naden or Mansour matched that scoring rate playing in the same team? Or To'o for that matter. To'o has scored 18 tries in his last 32 games and has Kikau outside him where the majority of the attack goes. I thought all you had to do was catch the ball and fall over the line?

I agree, right now he is down on form and confidence. I would imagine, like most young players in the first full season, he is mentally and physically knackered. In an ideal world we would use a NSW cup player to give him a rest, but since there is no NSW cup what do you do?

 

[Girds89]

Just finished watching the eels replay.

Mostly just to see if i was being harsh on Staines to which ill acknowledge i was a bit.

He wasnt poor. Definitley a pass mark but with some really poor moments in their which i guess is to be expected in first game at fb in nrl.

Things he did well at fb-
About 5 or 6 hit ups he actually carted the ball back at close to top pace and did really well.
He had one nice blind side play where we had numbers just from parra not numbering up. Him and may both drew and passed onto naden who made a nice break.
He made some good catches
Him and naden did well to stop sivo for a try. Naden ankle tapped him and got him off balance and charlie did well to force him out.

For the things he did bad-
Solely responsible for one try by watching ball bounce which parra scored off. Ball was always his and he didnt committ.
His positioning on a lot of short kicks was a fair bit out.
Unfortunatley for all the good hit ups he did he only run at 75% for his other 8 or so and got smashed.

Overall it was probably a 5/10 performance where he lost a few marks for the try he let in.

Definitley not enough to knock edwards out this season as edwards at his best is much better atm.

Maybe after a full pre season he can fight it out with edwards and turuva like i said earlier.

He isnt a ball player tho..like i said earlier he follows the ball around the ruck like brett hodgson etc used to. He chimed in on one or two plays but basically just catch and pass plays..

Other observations-

Naden was very very strong on his wing. Especially in attack. He had a great intercept were he went 60m. Also had plenty of good runs. One ir two missed tackles tho.

Sorensen was brilliant.

And franklin wont like this one but... api,yeo jfh were all available... cleary was out and luai was running the show. He got some good set restarts but Our attack looked like weve seen the last few weeks and was not great. Too sideways.

 

[DinkyDi]

Bit of recency bias with Edwards, he’s been terrific for the majority of the last 18 months. He’s not a ball player but he doesn’t need to be with 75% of our key players on board. I doubt we ever play again without our two biggest metre eaters and our main attacking spine (being Api, Yeo and Cleary) all out.

Maybe I’m old fashioned but I can forgive Edwards for making mistakes when he’s actually having a crack. At the moment, you’d struggle to say the same about Staines regardless of experience.

Staines has not had a lot of opportunities to be fair.

 

[Girds89]

That is just such a simplistic view. If it was just "catch the ball and score" everybody would be doing it and they simply don't. He has good anticipation, good agility to catch what are often poor passes (that's a wingers lot, no criticism of our centres intended) and uses his speed and footwork to avoid cover defence. 20 tries in 21 games is not a fluke. Why hasn't Jennings, Naden or Mansour matched that scoring rate playing in the same team? Or To'o for that matter. To'o has scored 18 tries in his last 32 games and has Kikau outside him where the majority of the attack goes. I thought all you had to do was catch the ball and fall over the line?

I agree, right now he is down on form and confidence. I would imagine, like most young players in the first full season, he is mentally and physically knackered. In an ideal world we would use a NSW cup player to give him a rest, but since there is no NSW cup what do you do?

Nadens strike rate on the wing is similiar. He has 21 in 34 games but alot of them came on the wing on staines side.

No real coincidence thats nathans side and hes gone to superatar levels with brilliant vision over last few years.

Sure im simplifying it. You still have to score them which he has so credit to him but none of his tries have come from any sort of individual brilliance. They have been good work but simplier tries. At least half hes gone in not even with anyone close to him either from a great ball by nath or a simple overlap.

Hes caught a few good passes to score but not under pressure youd be expecting nrl wingers to catch them

 

[WestyLife]

Just finished watching the eels replay.

Mostly just to see if i was being harsh on Staines to which ill acknowledge i was a bit.

He wasnt poor. Definitley a pass mark but with some really poor moments in their which i guess is to be expected in first game at fb in nrl.

Things he did well at fb-
About 5 or 6 hit ups he actually carted the ball back at close to top pace and did really well.
He had one nice blind side play where we had numbers just from parra not numbering up. Him and may both drew and passed onto naden who made a nice break.
He made some good catches
Him and naden did well to stop sivo for a try. Naden ankle tapped him and got him off balance and charlie did well to force him out.

For the things he did bad-
Solely responsible for one try by watching ball bounce which parra scored off. Ball was always his and he didnt committ.
His positioning on a lot of short kicks was a fair bit out.
Unfortunatley for all the good hit ups he did he only run at 75% for his other 8 or so and got smashed.

Overall it was probably a 5/10 performance where he lost a few marks for the try he let in.

Definitley not enough to knock edwards out this season as edwards at his best is much better atm.

Maybe after a full pre season he can fight it out with edwards and turuva like i said earlier.

He isnt a ball player tho..like i said earlier he follows the ball around the ruck like brett hodgson etc used to. He chimed in on one or two plays but basically just catch and pass plays..

Other observations-

Naden was very very strong on his wing. Especially in attack. He had a great intercept were he went 60m. Also had plenty of good runs. One ir two missed tackles tho.

Sorensen was brilliant.

And franklin wont like this one but... api,yeo jfh were all available... cleary was out and luai was running the show. He got some good set restarts but Our attack looked like weve seen the last few weeks and was not great. Too sideways.

Naden has always been a better winger than centre. No idea why he keeps getting forced into the wrong position. Something that always bugged me.

 

[Kilkenny]

For staying in this silly conversation when I swore I wouldn't maybe.

I figured as much.

 

[WestyLife]

I figured as much.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

I mean, I hope Staines turns out to be a good fullback because it seems our club has backed him - but I'm surprised at how sure many poster are on here that he will be based on what we have seen from him in first grade. He has been average at very best, and that includes his one shot at fullback so far, which was highly overrated by his defenders.

I mean, I hope I am wrong - it wouldn't be the first time, and it won't be the last - but to me Staines hasn't shown anything in first grade to deserve the rabid defenders he gets on here.

 

[maple_69]

I’m just happy the bloke has got through the season without any injury dramas. He’s obviously underweight and there to learn the game. I don’t think we can judge him until next year when he’s had a pre season on the weights.

 

[Girds89]

If he can add 5kgs at least. Get the confidence to run it fast and hard and get involved hopefully he kicks on

 

[The Realist]

I think when and where you make your errors is more important than how many you make. Edwards might be statistically ‘safe’ but when he is not, his errors are diabolical in the context of the game. With the Elite fullbacks you can forgive the extra errors because you just know that they will create more opportunities for their team then for the opposition. Edwards doesn’t really have it in him.

Also Girds89 has been talking about error rates, Edwards vs Staines. So tell me where the error lies in that play off the scrum base at the start of the game?

Statistically that error in pinned on Staines but the true cause as we all know was Edwards who on that play is statistically ‘clean’. Context matters.

I honestly had high hopes for Edwards, he looked phenominal in Rnd 3 against the Storm before his injury.

He has been crap ever since. He hasn’t stood up at all when you’d expect a seasoned player to. He is also the opposite of clutch when things get tough.

He is obviously a super hard worker and much liked by staff and other players, but we aren’t paying him to try hard or be pleasant to be around. We are paying him for effectiveness and he just isn’t effective enough for a FB of a team with genuine aspirations for Premierships. His form is simply not improving and it is a huge worry.

I think he would make a useful centre or winger but he isn’t a modern fullback for a team that is serious about building a dynasty. How he was a 5/8 in his junior days I’d never know.

 

[Girds89]

I think when and where you make your errors is more important than how many you make. Edwards might be statistically ‘safe’ but when he is not, his errors are diabolical in the context of the game. With the Elite fullbacks you can forgive the extra errors because you just know that they will create more opportunities for their team then for the opposition. Edwards doesn’t really have it in him.

Also Girds89 has been talking about error rates, Edwards vs Staines. So tell me where the error lies in that play off the scrum base at the start of the game?

Statistically that error in pinned on Staines but the true cause as we all know was Edwards who on that play is statistically ‘clean’. Context matters.

I honestly had high hopes for Edwards, he looked phenominal in Rnd 3 against the Storm before his injury.

He has been crap ever since. He hasn’t stood up at all when you’d expect a seasoned player to. He is also the opposite of clutch when things get tough.

He is obviously a super hard worker and much liked by staff and other players, but we aren’t paying him to try hard or be pleasant to be around. We are paying him for effectiveness and he just isn’t effective enough for a FB of a team with genuine aspirations for Premierships. His form is simply not improving and it is a huge worry.

I think he would make a useful centre or winger but he isn’t a modern fullback for a team that is serious about building a dynasty. How he was a 5/8 in his junior days I’d never know.

Errors are errors. You drop it it goes against your name.

No ifs or buts about it hes about the safest fb in the comp.. you can try put any spin on it you like but when hes making less than one mistake a game but touches the ball more than anyone bar maybe cleary or api is pretty good.. especially when his catches most kicks.

Hahaha that 40m field goal was the definition of clutch.

Youve lost the plot. We were a try away from winning it last year and when we were fit this year we were unstoppable and went on the biggest streak in our history. Was he still crap than?

Only turbo averages more meters as fb and only turbo and teddy avg more tackle breaks as a fb slightly.

We dont exactly have a modern day superstar fb on the roster so not really sure what youre hoping for.

If hes been crap since rd3 than everyone bar cleary api yeo martin too fish, need to take a long hard look at themselves.. aw and sorensens had a dig.

Critta and staines go mia..
Burton has been hot and cold of late.
Luai hasnt stepped up since origin
Leota is good one game avg next (seasoned player)
Capes has been quiet in attack last two months.. ( seasoned player)
Kiks tackling is embarrasing. Shirt grabs ( seasoned player)
Spencer is rocks or diamonds
May has been poor. Seasoned player.