Round 22 v The Sharks

[Chins get the wins]

This x 1000

I still thought his ball playing should have been better with his history, but all of the above points were far more important as to why he was wearing the 1.

Dylan's killing of simple overlaps was reason to doubt his future. He's got it together now

 

[WestyLife]

I look at the Soni Luke situation and compare it to the Leniu situation over the last few years. We all questioned the intent of Ivan for only giving Leniu small minutes over a couple of seasons or more. We are now in the same situation with Soni, questioning the lack of game time and debating whether there is any real talent there. It was the same with Leota a few years back. I think instead of all the all the criticism of the player and management, we experts need to acknowledge the lack of inside knowledge that we have and the far superior coaching ability of the Panthers staff,

"debating whether there is any real talent there"

To this part I say you're close but not quite there. He has talent which makes the game time and negative impact more puzzling than if he was a bum.

 

[soc123_au]

Yep. I get why Spencer plays so few minutes.

What we need from him doesn't seem to work in longer stints.

For me I see Kenny playing middle and it is purely defence. In theory having Spencer have long means he kills guys both sides of the ball. Assuming he can handle the minutes.

Ivan can't deal with what ifs. The data shows this is the most effective way to use him. That is boring for discussions though

It will be interesting if Cry Baby Karen gives him more minutes next year and how it affects his impact and tackle efficiency. I think he will be a gun prop even with big minutes, but he might not be able to turn momentum like he does now. For us the turning momentum is his biggest asset imo.

We can grind with anyone, and if they look like they are getting slightly on top the lunatic comes on and breaks their hearts. You don't get that with him starting.

 

[jane the pain]

It will be interesting if Cry Baby Karen gives him more minutes next year and how it affects his impact and tackle efficiency. I think he will be a gun prop even with big minutes, but he might not be able to turn momentum like he does now. For us the turning momentum is his biggest asset imo.

We can grind with anyone, and if they look like they are getting slightly on top the lunatic comes on and breaks their hearts. You don't get that with him starting.

There's been no official confirmation that he signed with the Chooks. I find that suspect.

 

[soc123_au]

There's been no official confirmation that he signed with the Chooks. I find that suspect.

I'd say we have spent his money in any case. Just them juggling cap space, Spencer has another comp to win, plenty of time for a round of Golf with Uncle Nick in the off season.

 

[snickers007]

There's been no official confirmation that he signed with the Chooks. I find that suspect.

Other than comments from Spencer himself? And comments from Trent Robinson?

Not sure what the end game would be for anyone to participate in a faked departure.
We've since spent Spencer's money. Other clubs are operating under the assumption that he's at the Roosters, and also spending any money they may have had. And what happens if the Roosters haven't kept his money aside?

 

[Girds89]

I am just pointing out that he was a half and the club clearly saw something and moved him.

That said, there is no guarantee that they make it. Injury was a huge part in Edwards early on

The club also signed both Crichton and Staines to overs as cover because you can never predict these things. If Luke doesn't make it, it won't be because of lack of talent. There are only so many spots and every yeah the club has several players aiming to be a NRL player in that position

As for your stats question, The club has far far more stats then anyone on here has seen.
What do you think the guy with dark hair and the laptop does inside the box?

He is spitting out data in real time, we were the 1st club to video every training session.

The coaches see all that sort of stuff, They also see what the fullbacks in NSW Cup, Flegg etc do too

And im just pointing out that i dont think jim jones specifically sees a kid playing 6 or 7 and think theres a half.

He sees potential.

A kid of nrl quality is often playing in a different position at junior level.

Even tho dyl was destined to be a fb his ball playing skills, kicking, speed was probably so far above other kids that he he was used as a half.

Same reason michael jennings played 5/8.

But my point is that they arent signed as anything. They are signed on potential and moulded in the system over a number of years.

Obviously the club has far more stats than any of us have seen.

Butvyou have commonly said you watch a game and than look at the stats off nrl.com to make a judgement on a player.

The stats you have access to only paint half a picture.

Anyway, i think most people are hoping that Luke can kick on. Just some on here seem to forget that most juniors go through this period.

As i said its a process. Most of our players that debuted here have gone through it.

Even you used to think nathan was a out and out 9....

My point is it takes time.

You add up all the mins lukes played this year how many total nrl games would he have played???

Maybe 6 or 7???

Hes probably been on the field for a total of 7x80 mins...... in his whole career....

But people are feed up with him lol.

Its ridiculous.

I can tell you right now it took most of pur gun juniors 50+ full nrl games before they started to settle.

Obviously luke wont get that long but as i keep saying.... its a process...

 

[WestyLife]

And im just pointing out that i dont think jim jones specifically sees a kid playing 6 or 7 and think theres a half.

He sees potential.

A kid of nrl quality is often playing in a different position at junior level.

Even tho dyl was destined to be a fb his ball playing skills, kicking, speed was probably so far above other kids that he he was used as a half.

Same reason michael jennings played 5/8.

But my point is that they arent signed as anything. They are signed on potential and moulded in the system over a number of years.

Obviously the club has far more stats than any of us have seen.

Butvyou have commonly said you watch a game and than look at the stats off nrl.com to make a judgement on a player.

The stats you have access to only paint half a picture.

Anyway, i think most people are hoping that Luke can kick on. Just some on here seem to forget that most juniors go through this period.

As i said its a process. Most of our players that debuted here have gone through it.

Even you used to think nathan was a out and out 9....

My point is it takes time.

You add up all the mins lukes played this year how many total nrl games would he have played???

Maybe 6 or 7???

Hes probably been on the field for a total of 7x80 mins...... in his whole career....

But people are feed up with him lol.

Its ridiculous.

I can tell you right now it took most of pur gun juniors 50+ full nrl games before they started to settle.

Obviously luke wont get that long but as i keep saying.... its a process...

You've misread it entirely. The issue with Luke isn't that he needs development time it's that he's not the best to be in the 14 jersey right now if we needed it for a finals game. In 12 months maybe.

In the article Jane posted Kenny mentions needing consistent game time and eye witness testimony that our $1m rep half was frustrated by his service or lack of and the entire comp can see the drop when he comes on all a result of such limited game time.

 

[Pomoz]

Kingston was ok for mine. The halves were pretty ordinary, albeit both had some strong areas of their game which could have been built around. To a degree we did build around Walsh's great short kicking game in 2010 but we never evolved it.

I agree regarding Kingston and he just showed how poor a captain Petero was. Kingston is a classy guy and a natural leader. But we were never winning a thing with that spine, a fact borne out by the results they achieved.

 

[Girds89]

You've misread it entirely. The issue with Luke isn't that he needs development time it's that he's not the best to be in the 14 jersey right now if we needed it for a finals game. In 12 months maybe.

In the article Jane posted Kenny mentions needing consistent game time and eye witness testimony that our $1m rep half was frustrated by his service or lack of and the entire comp can see the drop when he comes on all a result of such limited game time.

Mate thats a completely different argument... i have not once talked about our best 17 in all these posts....

Was specifically talking about progressing as a fg player and it takes time....

I think if you go back to before a ball was kicked this year i was all for peach having the 14 jumper. Nothings changed.

But you and others keep questioning sonny and saying hes gone backwards and this and that... all ive tried to point out is the process.

 

[WestyLife]

Mate thats a completely different argument... i have not once talked about our best 17 in all these posts....

Was specifically talking about progressing as a fg player and it takes time....

I think if you go back to before a ball was kicked this year i was all for peach having the 14 jumper. Nothings changed.

But you and others keep questioning sonny and saying hes gone backwards and this and that... all ive tried to point out is the process.

What I just said is why it's being discussed is my point. You were addressing an argument that was close to what's being said not the actual discussion.

 

[Girds89]

What I just said is why it's being discussed is my point. You were addressing an argument that was close to what's being said not the actual discussion.

Show me a post i quoted where i was talking about the 1-17 in that discussion....

People were talking about edwards development and comparing him to staines and critta...

All the people i qouted were talking about development of players...

Sonny is going through a development stage as ive discussed and others were responding too. Him being in the 17 is a different discussion.

I tend to agree wed be better served with someone else in the 14 role atm.

But im hapoy to back ivan at this stage.

 

[Iamback]

You've misread it entirely. The issue with Luke isn't that he needs development time it's that he's not the best to be in the 14 jersey right now if we needed it for a finals game. In 12 months maybe.

In the article Jane posted Kenny mentions needing consistent game time and eye witness testimony that our $1m rep half was frustrated by his service or lack of and the entire comp can see the drop when he comes on all a result of such limited game time.

Correct, now is when the team is preparing for finals time. Settling on a 17 is the aim

 

[Chins get the wins]

Correct, now is when the team is preparing for finals time. Settling on a 17 is the aim

Has to be Peach and we know I don't really rate him. The decision should have been clear the moment Cody Walker tore Salmon apart to beat us.

 

[Iamback]

And im just pointing out that i dont think jim jones specifically sees a kid playing 6 or 7 and think theres a half.

He sees potential.

A kid of nrl quality is often playing in a different position at junior level.

Even tho dyl was destined to be a fb his ball playing skills, kicking, speed was probably so far above other kids that he he was used as a half.

Same reason michael jennings played 5/8.

But my point is that they arent signed as anything. They are signed on potential and moulded in the system over a number of years.

Obviously the club has far more stats than any of us have seen.

Butvyou have commonly said you watch a game and than look at the stats off nrl.com to make a judgement on a player.

The stats you have access to only paint half a picture.

Anyway, i think most people are hoping that Luke can kick on. Just some on here seem to forget that most juniors go through this period.

As i said its a process. Most of our players that debuted here have gone through it.

Even you used to think nathan was a out and out 9....

My point is it takes time.

You add up all the mins lukes played this year how many total nrl games would he have played???

Maybe 6 or 7???

Hes probably been on the field for a total of 7x80 mins...... in his whole career....

But people are feed up with him lol.

Its ridiculous.

I can tell you right now it took most of pur gun juniors 50+ full nrl games before they started to settle.

Obviously luke wont get that long but as i keep saying.... its a process...

What the hell are you going on about.

We went from totally different style of fullbacks, Edwards works for us because of what Yeo can do.

At the time we were discussing Edwards back there. There was no Yeo at lock playing like a half. So you have different numbers you look at for Edwards

Infact we didn't even have a 5/8th early on. Remember Luai's shocker at fullback?

Had he of gone well then maybe Edwards isn't here. That is sport though and doesn't mean the talent scouts were wrong in what they saw

 

[Iamback]

Has to be Peach and we know I don't really rate him. The decision should have been clear the moment Cody Walker tore Salmon apart to beat us.

Depends how Hosking goes at centre. That would allow Cogger to be on the bench and cover the halves

 

[Girds89]

What the hell are you going on about.

We went from totally different style of fullbacks, Edwards works for us because of what Yeo can do.

At the time we were discussing Edwards back there. There was no Yeo at lock playing like a half. So you have different numbers you look at for Edwards

Infact we didn't even have a 5/8th early on. Remember Luai's shocker at fullback?

Had he of gone well then maybe Edwards isn't here. That is sport though and doesn't mean the talent scouts were wrong in what they saw

My post is pretty easy to understand... just responding to what youd wrote...

Well we had james maloney hahah?? Soo half... does he not qualify? Luai was filling in elsewhere cause we had jimmy.

You were going on about stats and how they show things... when in reality they miss just as much.

 

[Iamback]

My post is pretty easy to understand... just responding to what youd wrote...

Well we had james maloney hahah?? Soo half... does he not qualify? Luai was filling in elsewhere cause we had jimmy.

You were going on about stats and how they show things... when in reality they miss just as much.

And in 2017. Who was our 5/8th?

Our 3rd play maker is Yeo. Edwards stats are irrelevant in that regard.

His goal in attack is to get our sets started well, Which stats show he does.

Alternatively you look at the attack stats for Yeo and he is miles infront of the locks

 

[Girds89]

And in 2017. Who was our 5/8th?

Our 3rd play maker is Yeo. Edwards stats are irrelevant in that regard.

His goal in attack is to get our sets started well, Which stats show he does.

Alternatively you look at the attack stats for Yeo and he is miles infront of the locks

Yeah and like i keep saying stats only show so much...

Its like your reluctant to admit that...

Stats dont show how well yeo gets the team around the park do they?? They show touches but not the quality of those touches..

Id suggest watching games... really watching players is more important than stats..

Take a player like pangai junior... he often has decent offload stats... but quite often his offloads arent to a player in a better position than him or they slow down the momentum...

Stats are just that... they are good for defensive stuff and missed tackles... and also good for run meters.. the rest you really need to put more emphasis on what players are actually doing.

And fyi, edwards is coming along really nice in terms of hes ball playing.. hes finishing of pieces nicely and is getting better at taking the right options..

I mean you say yeo is the 3rd play maker and all edwards attacking stats in the regard are irrelevant....

Yeo- lba 5 ta 2 for the year
Edwards- lba 7 ta 4...

Seems a bit unfair just to rule him out...

hes certainly no reece walsh who has lba 26 and 21 ta.... but hes closing in on teddy who has 7 lba and 9 ta..

For a bloke who certainly doesnt try be a playmaker or whatever hes getting better in that regard

 

[Iamback]

Yeah and like i keep saying stats only show so much...

Its like your reluctant to admit that...

Stats dont show how well yeo gets the team around the park do they?? They show touches but not the quality of those touches..

Id suggest watching games... really watching players is more important than stats..

Take a player like pangai junior... he often has decent offload stats... but quite often his offloads arent to a player in a better position than him or they slow down the momentum...

Stats are just that... they are good for defensive stuff and missed tackles... and also good for run meters.. the rest you really need to put more emphasis on what players are actually doing.

And fyi, edwards is coming along really nice in terms of hes ball playing.. hes finishing of pieces nicely and is getting better at taking the right options..

I mean you say yeo is the 3rd play maker and all edwards attacking stats in the regard are irrelevant....

Yeo- lba 5 ta 2 for the year
Edwards- lba 7 ta 4...

Seems a bit unfair just to rule him out...

hes certainly no reece walsh who has lba 26 and 21 ta.... but hes closing in on teddy who has 7 lba and 9 ta..

For a bloke who certainly doesnt try be a playmaker or whatever hes getting better in that regard

They do but

Yeo has made 391 passes.
181 of those he has engaged the line. That would put him at roughly 50% quality balls.

The rest just passes

As for Edwards while on numbers he is close.

He has had 200 more possessions than Wal

Walsh also has 1177 kick metres to Edwards 53

Again though Edwards is better for our side than Walsh

Kick return metres, Tackle breaks etc allows us to start our sets better