Round 22 v The Sharks

[jane the pain]

Everything tastes better with cheese..... including cheese.

Are you a Brussel sprouts lover?

 

[jane the pain]

Everything tastes better with cheese..... including cheese.

Are you a Brussel sprouts lover? Double poated. Sorry.

 

[Girds89]

Looking back in time is hard to give examples.

Him being dropped the season before, as well as examples relevant to the time.

I use stats behind my opinions, I don't always post them because it gets tiresome for others.

Happy to go into further if someone engages.

As @soc123_au said though, often the reply is Ivan knows better or an insult. Which doesn't allow the convo to evolve to get reasons for people's opinions

Do stats show how much work dylan does at the back???

Do stats show how he can make a tackle at marker on the left wing on the 3rd than be there to save a try on the 4th on the right wing???

Do stats show how he points all our guys which side of the ruck to go with almost perfection every game leading to our elite defence???

I can go furthe if you engage...

What almost everyone misses this stuff it doesmt go unmissed by coaches and players...

Things are done for a reason through the grades...

The amount of crap i read alomg the lines of "dylan was a 5/8th coming through butb
is a shit ball player".....

Do people honestly not think the club sees that??

Do you not think at 17/18/19 they identify these issues and work out ways to better them as players....

I could name countless players that the club has played in juniors in different positions to what they are now or what they will be as a form of development...

We are a development club...

It would be fcking stupid... braindead... terrible management for penrith to know dyls a poor ball player but just leave him at the back when they got him from the country...

They can see he can run, is fit, is a good defender at the back...

Whats he need work on to be a fg player... ball playing... better doing that in lower grades...

Look at how theyve moved mav around between grades...

Look at how they are using mclean right now.. generally always been a winger but is playing centre to get his defensive reps up on the big boys.

Jack cole..

They move players around in the juniors to develop them...

Its common sense

 

[soc123_au]

Me too, with cheese

Cheese sauce would probably make dog shit palatable. It makes cauliflower edible, so it gets the tick of approval from me.

I like sprouts stir fried with a bit of lemon juice and salt & pepper. Or with a bit of bacon.

 

[jane the pain]

Cheese sauce would probably make dog shit palatable. It makes cauliflower edible, so it gets the tick of approval from me.

I like sprouts stir fried with a bit of lemon juice and salt & pepper. Or with a bit of bacon.

I love cauliflower too.

 

[soc123_au]

Do stats show how much work dylan does at the back???

Do stats show how he can make a tackle at marker on the left wing on the 3rd than be there to save a try on the 4th on the right wing???

Do stats show how he points all our guys which side of the ruck to go with almost perfection every game leading to our elite defence???

I can go furthe if you engage...

What almost everyone misses this stuff it doesmt go unmissed by coaches and players...

Things are done for a reason through the grades...

This x 1000

I still thought his ball playing should have been better with his history, but all of the above points were far more important as to why he was wearing the 1.

 

[soc123_au]

I love cauliflower too.

I cant cop it without the cheese sauce.

 

[age.s]

R

He spine was crap. Burns, Kingston, Walsh and a rookie Coote. That was were the money should have been spent, not on a glamour prop

Kingston was ok for mine. The halves were pretty ordinary, albeit both had some strong areas of their game which could have been built around. To a degree we did build around Walsh's great short kicking game in 2010 but we never evolved it.

 

[Iamback]

Do stats show how much work dylan does at the back???

Do stats show how he can make a tackle at marker on the left wing on the 3rd than be there to save a try on the 4th on the right wing???

Do stats show how he points all our guys which side of the ruck to go with almost perfection every game leading to our elite defence???

I can go furthe if you engage...

What almost everyone misses this stuff it doesmt go unmissed by coaches and players...

Things are done for a reason through the grades...

The amount of crap i read alomg the lines of "dylan was a 5/8th coming through butb
is a shit ball player".....

Do people honestly not think the club sees that??

Do you not think at 17/18/19 they identify these issues and work out ways to better them as players....

I could name countless players that the club has played in juniors in different positions to what they are now or what they will be as a form of development...

We are a development club...

It would be fcking stupid... braindead... terrible management for penrith to know dyls a poor ball player but just leave him at the back when they got him from the country...

They can see he can run, is fit, is a good defender at the back...

Whats he need work on to be a fg player... ball playing... better doing that in lower grades...

Look at how theyve moved mav around between grades...

Look at how they are using mclean right now.. generally always been a winger but is playing centre to get his defensive reps up on the big boys.

Jack cole..

They move players around in the juniors to develop them...

Its common sense

You do realise Edwards was signed as a half? So he had been moved several positions.

2018. he got injured but in his 8 games.

Averaged 148m a game. Tackle efficiency was 65%.

Then he comes back in 2019, Couldn't catch a ball and was dropped.

DWZ was fullback at the time and does everything Edwards does.

DWZ was an international, Edwards had 30 games to his name. So of course there was doubt.

Back to the stats,

Teams need 3 ball players, Yeo being our 3rd means we can use Edwards in his role that suits him.

Only really CNK would work in our system, Those ball players are too lazy or don't do enough returning the ball

 

[maple_69]

It’s painful to listen to the kid but the snippet of Walsh miked up at training on the Matty Johns show tonight is a great example of the role fullbacks play that you just don’t see from the outside. They’re directing every single player relevant to every play in defence. For a team that’s built it’s legacy on being one of the all time great defensive sides, a fullback that plays that role at the highest level should be viewed as just as important as Cleary.

I do agree though, it’s easy to say with the benefit of hindsight. The guy couldn’t stay on the park for more than a couple months and was a complete handbrake on the right. Now he’s durable and a serviceable link man.

 

[WestyLife]

Are you a Brussel sprouts lover? Double poated. Sorry.

I can eat them. Like you said prep is everything.

 

[Girds89]

You do realise Edwards was signed as a half? So he had been moved several positions.

2018. he got injured but in his 8 games.

Averaged 148m a game. Tackle efficiency was 65%.

Then he comes back in 2019, Couldn't catch a ball and was dropped.

DWZ was fullback at the time and does everything Edwards does.

DWZ was an international, Edwards had 30 games to his name. So of course there was doubt.

Back to the stats,

Teams need 3 ball players, Yeo being our 3rd means we can use Edwards in his role that suits him.

Only really CNK would work in our system, Those ball players are too lazy or don't do enough returning the ball

You do realise luke lewis was signed as a winger....

Yeo was signed as a centre....

Luai was a halfback....

Brent naden was a fb...

Kikau was a prop...

Nathan cleary was a bench hooker now is the best 7 in the game haha...

The whole he was signed as a half lunacy needs to stop haha.. its crap...

If you truly think that the club signs kids as 15/16/17 year olds as a certain position and that they are only going to play there youre very silly haha.

Kids get signed off potential... they are than brought into the system and moulded over a period of time. Throughout that period as they grow and develop the club moves them around To develop their skills or work on things...

17 he played the back half the year.

18 he had a season ending injury early

19 he was moved to the wing and dropped early in the season for errors. At the time he was heavily involved in the sex tape scandal and it was said he was player involved which he wasnt and said it really affected him a lot at the time and his family. went back to nsw cup captained and got a few mom performances. Came back into fg and played 20 games throughout the year

2020 onwards is history

He continued to get better in every facett of the game too!!

I mean you refernce dwz but he sure had his ups and downs too. He was an out an out fb coming through but clearly wing was worked out as his best spot.

look at fish, yeo, moses, it took them all a good 3-4 years to really develop into great fg players.

its not uncommon for it to take young guys 3 years of fg to work it out. Its a huge step up.

thats why soni needs a little bit of time. Obviously hes not young so he cant be afforded years but people just need to understand its a process.

And you didn't amswer my question about what stats cant show....

Stats are just that... they only paint half the picture..

I mean look at latrell. He can do literally nothing all game... nothing... than can do something so clutch that no one else can in the comp to win a game...

Same goes for edwards defensive stuff at the back. it cant be shown.

So stats are only good when paired with common sense and actually watching the players.

 

[Iamback]

You do realise luke lewis was signed as a winger....

Yeo was signed as a centre....

Luai was a halfback....

Brent naden was a fb...

Kikau was a prop...

Nathan cleary was a bench hooker now is the best 7 in the game haha...

The whole he was signed as a half lunacy needs to stop haha.. its crap...

If you truly think that the club signs kids as 15/16/17 year olds as a certain position and that they are only going to play there youre very silly haha.

Kids get signed off potential... they are than brought into the system and moulded over a period of time. Throughout that period as they grow and develop the club moves them around To develop their skills or work on things...

17 he played the back half the year.

18 he had a season ending injury early

19 he was moved to the wing and dropped early in the season for errors. At the time he was heavily involved in the sex tape scandal and it was said he was player involved which he wasnt and said it really affected him a lot at the time and his family. went back to nsw cup captained and got a few mom performances. Came back into fg and played 20 games throughout the year

2020 onwards is history

He continued to get better in every facett of the game too!!

I mean you refernce dwz but he sure had his ups and downs too. He was an out an out fb coming through but clearly wing was worked out as his best spot.

look at fish, yeo, moses, it took them all a good 3-4 years to really develop into great fg players.

its not uncommon for it to take young guys 3 years of fg to work it out. Its a huge step up.

thats why soni needs a little bit of time. Obviously hes not young so he cant be afforded years but people just need to understand its a process.

And you didn't amswer my question about what stats cant show....

Stats are just that... they only paint half the picture..

I mean look at latrell. He can do literally nothing all game... nothing... than can do something so clutch that no one else can in the comp to win a game...

Same goes for edwards defensive stuff at the back. it cant be shown.

So stats are only good when paired with common sense and actually watching the players.

I am just pointing out that he was a half and the club clearly saw something and moved him.

That said, there is no guarantee that they make it. Injury was a huge part in Edwards early on

The club also signed both Crichton and Staines to overs as cover because you can never predict these things. If Luke doesn't make it, it won't be because of lack of talent. There are only so many spots and every yeah the club has several players aiming to be a NRL player in that position

As for your stats question, The club has far far more stats then anyone on here has seen.
What do you think the guy with dark hair and the laptop does inside the box?

He is spitting out data in real time, we were the 1st club to video every training session.

The coaches see all that sort of stuff, They also see what the fullbacks in NSW Cup, Flegg etc do too

 

[BxTom]

I am just pointing out that he was a half and the club clearly saw something and moved him.

That said, there is no guarantee that they make it. Injury was a huge part in Edwards early on

The club also signed both Crichton and Staines to overs as cover because you can never predict these things. If Luke doesn't make it, it won't be because of lack of talent. There are only so many spots and every yeah the club has several players aiming to be a NRL player in that position

As for your stats question, The club has far far more stats then anyone on here has seen.
What do you think the guy with dark hair and the laptop does inside the box?

He is spitting out data in real time, we were the 1st club to video every training session.

The coaches see all that sort of stuff, They also see what the fullbacks in NSW Cup, Flegg etc do too

I look at the Soni Luke situation and compare it to the Leniu situation over the last few years. We all questioned the intent of Ivan for only giving Leniu small minutes over a couple of seasons or more. We are now in the same situation with Soni, questioning the lack of game time and debating whether there is any real talent there. It was the same with Leota a few years back. I think instead of all the all the criticism of the player and management, we experts need to acknowledge the lack of inside knowledge that we have and the far superior coaching ability of the Panthers staff,

 

[Iamback]

I look at the Soni Luke situation and compare it to the Leniu situation over the last few years. We all questioned the intent of Ivan for only giving Leniu small minutes over a couple of seasons or more. We are now in the same situation with Soni, questioning the lack of game time and debating whether there is any real talent there. It was the same with Leota a few years back. I think instead of all the all the criticism of the player and management, we experts need to acknowledge the lack of inside knowledge that we have and the far superior coaching ability of the Panthers staff,

Leinu is leaving though for more gametime, If he goes well the argument should be was the club too consertive

 

[soc123_au]

I look at the Soni Luke situation and compare it to the Leniu situation over the last few years. We all questioned the intent of Ivan for only giving Leniu small minutes over a couple of seasons or more. We are now in the same situation with Soni, questioning the lack of game time and debating whether there is any real talent there. It was the same with Leota a few years back. I think instead of all the all the criticism of the player and management, we experts need to acknowledge the lack of inside knowledge that we have and the far superior coaching ability of the Panthers staff,

The debating is why we keep logging on here though. Some love being armchair coaches, opinions are formed on what we see and the pieces of the puzzle we think we know about. I don't really think anyone on here thinks they are more qualified and know better than the coaching staff. It's just discussion and debate on something we are all passionate about.

***Except the Elliott years, anyone on here would have done better than that muppet.

 

[soc123_au]

Leinu is leaving though for more gametime, If he goes well the argument should be was the club too consertive

Leinu was also a case of "We want more of that, give the kid minutes" With Soni it's more "WTF is this about? I hope Kenny is ok"

Of course there is behind the scenes stuff that contribute to why a coach does what he does, that isn't overly relevant to fans talking shit though.

 

[Munky]

The debating is why we keep logging on here though. Some love being armchair coaches, opinions are formed on what we see and the pieces of the puzzle we think we know about. I don't really think anyone on here thinks they are more qualified and know better than the coaching staff. It's just discussion and debate on something we are all passionate about.

***Except the Elliott years, anyone on here would have done better than that muppet.

The most interesting thing will be if Ivan goes all Paul Green and retains loyalty to clearly past it premiership players.

We're lucky that the team became awesome so young.

 

[Iamback]

Leinu was also a case of "We want more of that, give the kid minutes" With Soni it's more "WTF is this about? I hope Kenny is ok"

Of course there is behind the scenes stuff that contribute to why a coach does what he does, that isn't overly relevant to fans talking shit though.

Yep. I get why Spencer plays so few minutes.

What we need from him doesn't seem to work in longer stints.

For me I see Kenny playing middle and it is purely defence. In theory having Spencer have long means he kills guys both sides of the ball. Assuming he can handle the minutes.

Ivan can't deal with what ifs. The data shows this is the most effective way to use him. That is boring for discussions though

 

[Iamback]

The most interesting thing will be if Ivan goes all Paul Green and retains loyalty to clearly past it premiership players.

We're lucky that the team became awesome so young.

the age of the squad is key, It means even fringe guys are valuable for other sides. It leaves our side freshened up.

We have

McLean - still eligible for SG Ball
Tago, Cole and Turuva - eligible for Flegg

As well as Lisati, Mav and Henry who played Flegg last year in the top squad for next year. May too was still Flegg eligible last year

Throw in 22 and 23 year old Laurie and Staines coming back and we still have a young squad