Round 26 v Eels - Match Day Thread

[Souths Till I Die]

I've been thinking that this could be the case also, I prefer the owners to be a bit distant from the players.

It would definitely be hard for me to see them go because of how good they were in 2014 but sometimes change is needed.

 

[Fat Tony]

The Burgess twins are "Rusty",literally.
Way to comfortable in their environment and their "Rusty" connection!
And to be honest the "Rusty" connection becomes rather toxic on the team as a whole.

You hear so much about rusty being a control freak, the adam mcdougall interview the other night was interesting, and there's always weird stories about his relatiinship with players. Fletcher on the matty johns told a story about wanting to smash him during a impromptu game of footy that broke out during a team dinner and you could sense their was more to the story fletch wasn't letting on. There's the joe Guluavo story were he told him he should retire, joe played in 2 more grand finals after that.

Our success came at a weird time. Crowe was going through a public divorve at the time and was looking to sell his share in the bunnies while at the same time maguire came in and was able to take control and put some real professionalism through the plave and it worked. I think our 2014 awoke rustys passion for the club and he couldn't help but want to get too involved, and the 'disaster' of 2015 gave him an opportunity to take back over and cut maguire's power.

 

[Rabbits20]

I actually thought Cody's kicking game was very poor...... he couldn't get to the kick on the last at times and his grubber only went a few centimetres......

I'm still not sold on him being worth the 600k he probably wants......

 

[rabbitohs95]

On the twins I think we're forgetting they've only just come off some pretty terrible injuries where they were playing week in week out with a lot of discomfort which no doubt would have affected them.

 

[Souths Till I Die]

On the twins I think we're forgetting they've only just come off some pretty terrible injuries where they were playing week in week out with a lot of discomfort which no doubt would have affected them.

You do make a fair point. They have the whole of next year to prove themselves anyway.

 

[callmack1]

2018 is the crunch year for the twins for sure.

 

[souths_reborn]

Look we're going to have to agree to disagree. Before Madge came to coach this side it was a team that just played to get their pay check. We were the biggest underperformers of the competition and it was embarrassing. I know it came off as harsh but I am genuinely worried that we were returning to those days. I can't fault any players when we went neck to neck with a top 4 side. That was a courageous performance. But when you lose by 60 points that's just a matter of pride. Even Crichton came out and said that the only reason he chased down that storm player was because of his pride. I know there are a few players that come out each week and perform their best and most of them are the young guys but I genuinely believe that there are a few players in this team who just need to go. I have been of the opinion that we needed a rebuild ever since the end of 2015 and it just hasn't happened. Instead we signed everyone up to long contracts and it's destroying us now.

I don't know if I can agree that AR would of made a difference tonight. I think Luke Kelly brought just as much as AR could to the table especially with what AR has dished up this season.

In regards to the Burgess twins you're very right about tom. He had an excellent game, one of his best all year. But is it really a good thing when you have to tell your highest paid props to reduce their workload to increase their effectiveness? If Tom Burgess can pump out performances like that consistently then he is definitely worth his money.

I completely agree with your analysis of all the young blokes. They all had great games. I would of excused us losing by 40 but we came out and gave the Eels a run for their money with our reserve grade squad. As for heading in the right direction I'm not too sure. Getting rid of walker and Madge doesn't exactly sound like the "right direction" to me but we'll find out this time next year.

I just refuse to accept that this team is not trying. I'm probably more of a glass half full man but I can see the effort being put in. It is possible to put in effort and still get thrashed; the Raiders and Broncos teams of the 90s regularly did that to teams. These things happen in rugby league - most players are going to be on the end of a thrashing at some point in their lives. Our issues are more a product of inexperience than apathy.

For the record I agree with you about the John Lang era, although I think that can also be attributed to his ineptness as a coach. However, I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that we are heading back to those days. As for needing a rebuild since 2015, I don't necessarily subscribe to that view simply because I feel we were never as good as people made us out to be, even after 2014. The foundations of our success were built around the view that we had won a premiership with a young team that was supposedly going to get better. For one reason or another this didn't happen as players left or didn't live up to their potential. You have to remember that we lost 9 games in 2014 during the regular season and finished 3rd! Also, the competition is a hell of a lot more even now than it was in 2014 as other teams have closed the gap. Hence, we have practically been rebuilding from 2014 as opposed to the likes of the Cowboys and Sharks who have both managed to keep their key personnel.

The problem with going through a rebuilding phase is that there is a general shortage of talent because teams are so focused on attaining instant success they aren't willing to invest the time in developing young players on any large scale. Therefore you practically have two options: pay overs for mediocre players or those who are past their best and hope they deliver or sacrifice a bit of success in the short term for success in the long term by developing highly promising young players.

I agree with you about keeping Walker and Madge. They must be kept at all costs. In particular, the one thing you do not want to happen during a rebuild phase if for your coach to leave. Wayne Bennett pointed out that sacking Nathan Brown at Knights wouldn't change a thing and thank god they didn't get rid of him because I think they are heading in the right direction. What people have to remember is that coaches are not miracle workers nor are the ones playing out there. I get they are responsible for getting the team playing well but there is only so much that they can do. Madge has shown that he is tactically astute (whether you like his brand of football or not) and is an advocate of disciplined footy. More crucially, he excels at developing young talent with the number of quality first graders coming through under him much higher than other clubs. Similarly, Cody Walker is of equal importance because he is a genuine match winner; Adam Reynolds is a steady half who lacks a bit of quality. More specifically, Cody takes the ball to the line and you need that in the halves if you are going to get anywhere in this game.

 

[Souths Till I Die]

I just refuse to accept that this team is not trying. I'm probably more of a glass half full man but I can see the effort being put in. It is possible to put in effort and still get thrashed; the Raiders and Broncos teams of the 90s regularly did that to teams. These things happen in rugby league - most players are going to be on the end of a thrashing at some point in their lives. Our issues are more a product of inexperience than apathy.

For the record I agree with you about the John Lang era, although I think that can also be attributed to his ineptness as a coach. However, I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that we are heading back to those days. As for needing a rebuild since 2015, I don't necessarily subscribe to that view simply because I feel we were never as good as people made us out to be, even after 2014. The foundations of our success were built around the view that we had won a premiership with a young team that was supposedly going to get better. For one reason or another this didn't happen as players left or didn't live up to their potential. You have to remember that we lost 9 games in 2014 during the regular season and finished 3rd! Also, the competition is a hell of a lot more even now than it was in 2014 as other teams have closed the gap. Hence, we have practically been rebuilding from 2014 as opposed to the likes of the Cowboys and Sharks who have both managed to keep their key personnel.

The problem with going through a rebuilding phase is that there is a general shortage of talent because teams are so focused on attaining instant success they aren't willing to invest the time in developing young players on any large scale. Therefore you practically have two options: pay overs for mediocre players or those who are past their best and hope they deliver or sacrifice a bit of success in the short term for success in the long term by developing highly promising young players.

I agree with you about keeping Walker and Madge. They must be kept at all costs. In particular, the one thing you do not want to happen during a rebuild phase if for your coach to leave. Wayne Bennett pointed out that sacking Nathan Brown at Knights wouldn't change a thing and thank god they didn't get rid of him because I think they are heading in the right direction. What people have to remember is that coaches are not miracle workers nor are the ones playing out there. I get they are responsible for getting the team playing well but there is only so much that they can do. Madge has shown that he is tactically astute (whether you like his brand of football or not) and is an advocate of disciplined footy. More crucially, he excels at developing young talent with the number of quality first graders coming through under him much higher than other clubs. Similarly, Cody Walker is of equal importance because he is a genuine match winner; Adam Reynolds is a steady half who lacks a bit of quality. More specifically, Cody takes the ball to the line and you need that in the halves if you are going to get anywhere in this game.

That's okay I figure we have to agree to disagree with that point. i personally hope you're right about it being youth rather than apathy because I don't know if I could stand to watch what we used to dish up.

That's okay I don't think everybody was going to agree. I think the difference between us and the sharks and cowboys was the fact that we were straight up terrible in 2015. For me that was a sign that we needed a clean out. I'm no coach though and I think Madge kept trying to target a premiership each year with a lesser and lesser squad which has now led us to this situation. We've got overpaid players that we thought we're gonna take us to another premiership but they've failed to do so. IN SAYING THIS though we have had terrible luck with injuries the past 2 seasons and I'm hoping that will change next season.

I think manly got it right with their rebuild. They cleaned out the whole team and based the team around key players. We kind of did this but it also backfired considering the injuries and the backwards form of Reynolds and Burgess twins.

You're so right about Madge. He was the only coach to get us out of one of the worst premiership droughts ever. I completely agree with everything you say which is why I'm okay with not being aggressive in the player market as long as we can resign our best performers. Not just walker as well. Fuimaono, Murray, Crichton, musgrove I think all these kids need to be locked down because they are our future. If we can't re sign those players that perform the best week in week out then we are in a hell of a lot of trouble. Madge is trying to build a respectable culture at this club and I respect him for everything he puts in. It would be a shame to see him leave Souths.

 

[souths_reborn]

That's okay I figure we have to agree to disagree with that point. i personally hope you're right about it being youth rather than apathy because I don't know if I could stand to watch what we used to dish up.

That's okay I don't think everybody was going to agree. I think the difference between us and the sharks and cowboys was the fact that we were straight up terrible in 2015. For me that was a sign that we needed a clean out. I'm no coach though and I think Madge kept trying to target a premiership each year with a lesser and lesser squad which has now led us to this situation. We've got overpaid players that we thought we're gonna take us to another premiership but they've failed to do so. IN SAYING THIS though we have had terrible luck with injuries the past 2 seasons and I'm hoping that will change next season.

I think manly got it right with their rebuild. They cleaned out the whole team and based the team around key players. We kind of did this but it also backfired considering the injuries and the backwards form of Reynolds and Burgess twins.

You're so right about Madge. He was the only coach to get us out of one of the worst premiership droughts ever. I completely agree with everything you say which is why I'm okay with not being aggressive in the player market as long as we can resign our best performers. Not just walker as well. Fuimaono, Murray, Crichton, musgrove I think all these kids need to be locked down because they are our future. If we can't re sign those players that perform the best week in week out then we are in a hell of a lot of trouble. Madge is trying to build a respectable culture at this club and I respect him for everything he puts in. It would be a shame to see him leave Souths.

I agree with you in that we have overpaid players who aren't performing. In saying that, I like to break it down to a more general level and say that we simply have players in the team who aren't performing and that we are carrying passengers. I suppose that is what frustrates me about the criticism directed at the Burgess twins. Yes they haven't set the world alight but I wouldn't say they have been hopeless. For example, I'd say the likes of John Sutton and Adam Reynolds have sunk to greater levels of mediocrity than the Burgess twins have. In particular, I think John Sutton would be lucky to make a reserve grade team. Also, before this year I'd say that Inglis was a sporadic performer in 2016 who only ran into form at the back end of last season. Call me crazy but I think his form started to go down hill ever since he was appointed captain.

They key to being successful over a long period of time is to keep a group of core players at the club for a long period of time. Often these are 'spine players' e.g. fullbacks, halves, hookers etc however there can be some variations. As soon as we won the premiership we lost our two best forwards in Sam Burgess and Ben Teo. Compounding this is the fact that Isaac Luke's and Chris McQueen's form began to decline and they both left the club at the end of 2015. Similarly, the club had issues with Dylan Walker and he was moved on. For one reason or another we had to part with key personnel, with a few of them being key players. Compare this to the Cowboys who have only lost a couple of players since 2015 and the Sharks as well.

 

[Souths Till I Die]

I agree with you in that we have overpaid players who aren't performing. In saying that, I like to break it down to a more general level and say that we simply have players in the team who aren't performing and that we are carrying passengers. I suppose that is what frustrates me about the criticism directed at the Burgess twins. Yes they haven't set the world alight but I wouldn't say they have been hopeless. For example, I'd say the likes of John Sutton and Adam Reynolds have sunk to greater levels of mediocrity than the Burgess twins have. In particular, I think John Sutton would be lucky to make a reserve grade team. Also, before this year I'd say that Inglis was a sporadic performer in 2016 who only ran into form at the back end of last season. Call me crazy but I think his form started to go down hill ever since he was appointed captain.

They key to being successful over a long period of time is to keep a group of core players at the club for a long period of time. Often these are 'spine players' e.g. fullbacks, halves, hookers etc however there can be some variations. As soon as we won the premiership we lost our two best forwards in Sam Burgess and Ben Teo. Compounding this is the fact that Isaac Luke's and Chris McQueen's form began to decline and they both left the club at the end of 2015. Similarly, the club had issues with Dylan Walker and he was moved on. For one reason or another we had to part with key personnel, with a few of them being key players. Compare this to the Cowboys who have only lost a couple of players since 2015 and the Sharks as well.

I think most of the criticism is directed at George Burgess yet tom cops the full brunt of it as well because they're twins. There have been some really poor games from George this year. I know you dislike stats but when you come on for 30+ minutes and only take 1 hit up with around 15 tackles you know that's a serious problem. You're probably right about them needing to drop some weight but I'm almost certain they are gym junkies and would struggle to lose weight if it meant losing muscle at the same time?

I completely agree about Sutton. I understand the club wants him to get to 300 games but he should be playing a role like heighno does for the sharks where he comes on for about 20-30 minutes to calm everyone down and just do his job. Past that he starts to become a bit more of a liability than an asset especially in defence. I actually agree with your assessment re Inglis. if there is one position where you are most likely to tear your ACL it is definitely the fullback position. All the lateral movement and stepping that you would have to do puts so much strain on the knees. I think our 2014 campaign was on the back of Inglis but I also think AJ has shown a lot of promise back there. I wouldn't be upset at all if Inglis was moved to the centres permanently. As for AR I honestly believe it's a confidence issue. He's not a bad player and he hasn't forgotten how to kick he just doesn't seem sure of himself anymore. It's good to see him run the ball a bit more though. Everyone wants to see him develop his running game. Everyone wants to see walker develop a bit more of a kicking game too.

You're completely right and I think a major part of our 2017 downfall was our failure to stick with the same spine for an extended period of time. I think something that annoys most fans though is the poor management of the cap. The fact that we had to get rid of Dylan Walker to pay 800k for Sam Burgess was insane. Then there was Nathan Brown and Mcinnes. I think if we had 3 of these players we'd be in a much better position than we are now.

Although with our U20's squad seeing quite a bit of success and some returning players I hope we can see a better 2018 season and maybe sneak into the 8. You're also right about the cowboys. They were lucky and all their players stayed for "unders". Sharks are struggling now so I guess we'll see where they end up next year, but their U20's squad is the best I've seen for a while. I'm happy that Souths have finally started to focus on the juniors and their coach Carr deserves a massive wrap this year.

 

[southsport]

I meant to mention what a good game Jason Clark had against the eels.

 

[foreverinourshadow]

oi R20... southy is pulling our leg again dont fall for it mate...Shadow...

 

[Rabbits20]

I meant to mention what a good game Jason Clark had against the eels.

Yes Southy he did and I like Clark!!

Best game he had in ages and he has a go.

I had the pleasure of meeting him about 6wks ago too!!

 

[southsport]

Yes Southy he did and I like Clark!!

Best game he had in ages and he has a go.

I had the pleasure of meeting him about 6wks ago too!!

It was probably the best I've seen him play, it was a wholehearted effort, even more than usual.

Where did you meet him at? Nice bloke isn't he, genuine and very friendly when I spoke to him.

 

[foreverinourshadow]

clarky is a very good souths man but you know where i stand he is on my dud list...Shadow...

 

[southsport]

Oi R20, what's wrong with shadow tonight?

 

[foreverinourshadow]

clarky/turner and kelly/talakai had no choice but to fire up for once they were all thrown in to the deep end with jennings etc etc because of injury/flu etc etc they either performed for once or be laughed about again as per usual....sure they dug deep but so what are they not supposed to be 1st graders?? anyway it was only parra it was not the storm right?otherwise souths would had received another 2nd flogging from the over the cap storms team .

 

[foreverinourshadow]

Oi R20, what's wrong with shadow tonight?

Please explain ??...Shadow...

 

[southsport]

Please explain ??...Shadow...

Hey shadow, I saw your mate Robert up at Souths Juniors the other week.

 

[foreverinourshadow]

oi R20... southy is looking for a bite maybe he is bored?...Shadow...