Round 3 vs. Titans Discussion + Voting

[AuDragon]

So based on your theory then, how many points do they have to concede or how many games lost at an extreme before they are dropped if they're not going to be dropped for poor performances at the start of their career?

Not after one poor game, that's for sure!
Gagai may have cost us a try in the Cowboys game because of his Rah Rah ball, but he scored one in exchange and played otherwise quite well.
In Canberra, he had an horrible first half, granted, but he was playing better in the second half before going out injured.
That hardly justifies him being sacked!

 

[AuDragon]

Lockyer nor Hodges had shockers in their debut.

Hodges came in around Origin time and played impressively in a narrow loss to Canberra in Canberra. He didn't see much first grade that year and wouldn't until 2001 where he was being groomed for 2002...which is where the Roosters threw the vault at him and he jumped straight away.

I get your point though AuDragon and I'm sure there's somebody out their who fits that description...

Yes, I was confused with their first rep games, where both had a shocker and cost us the games.
Hodges first year wasn't much to write home about either, and in a year where he deservedly got rookie of the year, Locky had a couple of shockers too.

You get my point anyway, and a young player such as Gagai, who oozes talent, definitely deserves the benefit of the doubt that many less talented players got for long periods at the Broncos or other clubs!

 

[renouf]

last time i openly tipped broncs to win we lost rd 1 to cowboys! going to keep my tips to myself this time!

heh, so your 0/1 and decided it's already a jinx?

I've found whenever I tip us to win a game easily, it rarely ever happens. Really, given how poorly the Titans have played this year, it should be win to us, but you just never know.

 

[Big Pete]

The issue here is both Hodges and Lockyer were dropped and groomed, they're obviously examples of that type of plan proving beneficial.

For the record, I thought Gagai deserved one more game but I haven't been impressed by his first two games. That rah rah ball wasn't the only issue I had with his game against the Cows.

 

[beads6]

Gagai will be a star and I was happy for him to continue playing in first grade. I think some games in QLD cup would do him a world of good though..

 

[Seagullsrock]

Hodges was a star in the Qld Cup before moving onto the NRL.
Inglis was something special in the Qld Cup before moving onto the NRL.
Folau only needed 1 game of Qld Cup before he moved onto the NRL.
Gagai.....woops nope he doesn't fit in here...and I'm not getting at the point he's not as good as the others either.

 

[Big Pete]

Did Folau play Q Cup in 2006?

 

[Country Bronco]

Shockers on debut? I think AuDragon was talking about lockyer on debut for the kangaroos and hodges on debut for Queensland. But you all probably knew that.

 

[Big Pete]

Yes although comparing dropping a player from first grade and representative level are a tad different.

Besides, Hodges was dropped.

Lockyer had about 5 months of footy to make up for that one shocker.

 

[Country Bronco]

Hodges was a star in the Qld Cup before moving onto the NRL.
Inglis was something special in the Qld Cup before moving onto the NRL.
Folau only needed 1 game of Qld Cup before he moved onto the NRL.
Gagai.....woops nope he doesn't fit in here...and I'm not getting at the point he's not as good as the others either.

Hodges was dropped to qcup for signing with the roosters.
Inglis played all of five games for norths.
Folau played one game.
They didn't stay in queer cup for long. Oh!! Qld cup.
Gagai has never played Qld cup neither has Lockyer.

 

[Country Bronco]

Yes although comparing dropping a player from first grade and representative level are a tad different.

Besides, Hodges was dropped.

Lockyer had about 5 months of footy to make up for that one shocker.

Agreed but I can't see where Gagai has had a shocker. Sure he was outjumped by Ferguson but we agreed it was a lot to do with ferguson's skill of jumping rather than a error on Gagai's part. As for the dropped ball well all back three should be dropped if it was a case of making a error from fielding a kick. The other alternative is playing wing this week? Beale. And he's really a centre. Seen him play fullback,wing, five eighth and back row as well. But on the wing he was sh*t and clearly out of position. He lacks the speed of a winger which Gagai does have. Hopefully Mead is on the other side of the field tomorrow night otherwise given some space he could cause a few headaches.

 

[Seagullsrock]

Hodges was dropped to qcup for signing with the roosters.
Inglis played all of five games for norths.
Folau played one game.
They didn't stay in queer cup for long. Oh!! Qld cup.
Gagai has never played Qld cup neither has Lockyer.

I never said Gagai had played Qld Cup, that was my point. I didn't say Lockyer had played Qld Cup either. I was suggesting/implying even though I didn't have to that Qld Cup is clearly a better stepping stone than the NYC. You get penalised in the NYC for making a tackle and you're playing against your own age group which isn't beneficial either.

Inglis didn't just play 5 games. Clearly you Wikipedia research didn't help you. To save you reading it again, it says he scored 12 tries in 5 games. It doesn't say he played 5 games. It then goes on to say he scored 194 points in 2005. Scored 194 points in 5 games did he?

Folau predominatly played colts for Norths but he trained with their Qld Cup side and the Melbourne NRL boys back when that link existed.

Bennett dropping Hodges had a) nothing to do with ability and b) It was well after when Hodges was carving up for Toowoomba.

You got any valid points?

 

[GoTheBroncs]

He (Beale) lacks the speed of a winger which Gagai does have.

I thought Beale won that 40m race or something

 

[Seagullsrock]

Agreed but I can't see where Gagai has had a shocker. Sure he was outjumped by Ferguson but we agreed it was a lot to do with ferguson's skill of jumping rather than a error on Gagai's part. As for the dropped ball well all back three should be dropped if it was a case of making a error from fielding a kick. The other alternative is playing wing this week? Beale. And he's really a centre. Seen him play fullback,wing, five eighth and back row as well. But on the wing he was sh*t and clearly out of position. He lacks the speed of a winger which Gagai does have. Hopefully Mead is on the other side of the field tomorrow night otherwise given some space he could cause a few headaches.

Beale's best position is fullback from what I have seen. He was pretty dreadful for us at right centre but once he was moved to FB, his performances improved.

 

[Seagullsrock]

I thought Beale won that 40m race or something

Just more crap from Country Bronco.

 

[AuDragon]

The issue here is both Hodges and Lockyer were dropped and groomed, they're obviously examples of that type of plan proving beneficial.

For the record, I thought Gagai deserved one more game but I haven't been impressed by his first two games. That rah rah ball wasn't the only issue I had with his game against the Cows.

Really, when was Locky dropped?
What else did Gagai do wrong against the Cows?
And the more important question is: Do we have a better option on the sidelines?

 

[AuDragon]

I never said Gagai had played Qld Cup, that was my point. I didn't say Lockyer had played Qld Cup either. I was suggesting/implying even though I didn't have to that Qld Cup is clearly a better stepping stone than the NYC. You get penalised in the NYC for making a tackle and you're playing against your own age group which isn't beneficial either.

Bennett dropping Hodges had a) nothing to do with ability and b) It was well after when Hodges was carving up for Toowoomba.

I totally agree that Qcup is a better stepping stone than the Toyota cup, but that doesn't mean that Qcup should be mandatory, nor that a player coming from the U20's and struggling in his first few games, should be dropped.
It doesn't mean either that a player that has gone through Qcup won't have a few shockers once he plunges into the faster and harder world that is the NRL.

As you say, Hodges wasn't dropped when he had a few shockers early in his career, but through the Roosters affair and I can't recall Locky being dropped, but may be mistaken...

And no, Beale is nowhere near as fast as Gagai, despite his 40 mtrs sprint win at the start of the pre-season, nor is he very able under the high ball, so why on earth should he be preferred to Gagai in the wing?

It's all academic anyway, because of Gagai's injury, and by the looks of it, Hook has already cleared his path back into the team against the Panthers...

 

[Big Pete]

Really, when was Locky dropped?
What else did Gagai do wrong against the Cows?
And the more important question is: Do we have a better option on the sidelines?

Round 16 1995.

Defence was shakey, kept deflecting the ball with his hand when trying to field the long kicks, one of those deflections nearly tripped Hoffman up and some of his runs were silly.

It wasn't a terrible game by any means, but certainly a nervous start.

I wouldn't of dropped Gagai after last week, but if he trips up again I'd bring Kemp in who can at least do a job.

 

[Country Bronco]

I never said Gagai had played Qld Cup, that was my point. I didn't say Lockyer had played Qld Cup either. I was suggesting/implying even though I didn't have to that Qld Cup is clearly a better stepping stone than the NYC. You get penalised in the NYC for making a tackle and you're playing against your own age group which isn't beneficial either.

You get penalised for making a tackle? How can this be true. I've seen plenty of NYC games and this hasn't happened.

 

[Seagullsrock]

You get penalised for making a tackle? How can this be true. I've seen plenty of NYC games and this hasn't happened.

Sarcasm. The defence is disgraceful. Average score is about 40-30. Exactly why most of the young blokes who have come through into the NRL can't tackle. The superstars are the only real exceptions.