Round 5 vs Bulldogs

[Kilkenny]

Api played 14 games, 10 at hooker and 4 off the bench. Isaac Luke was the first choice hooker but missed a large chunk of games, presumably injured.

Isaac Luke was suspended for the 2014 GF.

 

[Pomoz]

Api is our best ever 9 and winning the comp this year will be it undeniable

Luke Priddis said hi......

 

[Iamback]

How can you compare just based on the number of games? Madge won a premiership at Souths, gets his hands on the Tigers and it's all turned to custard. Your criteria rates him above Ivan, yet in reality , in his hands the Tigers stink like yesterday's prawns.

What about the quality of the teams they coached?

Gibson - Easts, Souths, Parramatta, St George, Newton, Cronulla
Gould - Dogs, Panthers, Easts
Cleary - Warriors, Panthers, Tigers

When Gould got his hand on the Dogs and the 91 Panthers they were already premiership quality. The Dogs team had already won two premierships in 84 and 85. When he got to Easts, Politis had started to bankroll them and they had began buying players and building a dynasty. Not the same as Ivan looking at Chris Armit, Cameron Ciraldo, Travis Burns and Luke Walsh.

Ivan is no super coach, but credit where it's due. He is not average and could be on the verge of creating something very special.

Because how else do you rank them then?

Paul Green has 2 GF's at a win % of 52?

But has 1/3 the games. Not a true comparison

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Different circumstances.

Take Luai - has always been a half. In 10 years at the club he has played in 7 Grand Finals

That 2015 NYC team won 3 games in a row 72-10

We are reaping the rewards of an amazing crop of juniors

Compare that to Hughes and Cronk. From outside back plodders to elite 7

But we have always had amazing juniors. Why is now different?

And it isn’t just winning a comp; it is a level of consistency we have never ever seen at Penrith.

 

[Luke Bowden]

Tago will make a great fist of the backrow.

So will Maverick Geyer and Preston Riki.

My preference is to keep him in the centres.

 

[DinkyDi]

So will Maverick Geyer and Preston Riki.

My preference is to keep him in the centres.

Each to their own. Staines, in my opinion, deserves to be in first grade.

 

[Iamback]

But we have always had amazing juniors. Why is now different?

And it isn’t just winning a comp; it is a level of consistency we have never ever seen at Penrith.

The academy opening.

Cleary and Luai was in the 1st group as 15 year olds to use it. It has been money well spent

 

[Luke Bowden]

Each to their own. Staines, in my opinion, deserves to be in first grade.

Even if it means naming a weaker team??

That makes little sense to me

 

[Kilkenny]

Each to their own. Staines, in my opinion, deserves to be in first grade.

I think generally everyone on here has recognised a different Charlie Staines thus far this season from the version who was dropped at the back end of last season.

To his credit you can see the effort, he is trying really hard, however long term he is looking like the one who will be sacrificed when To’o returns to full fitness.

Unless he gets injured in the mean time I assume he gets at least another month to show he is a better option than To’o or May.

 

[Kilkenny]

Even if it means naming a weaker team??

That makes little sense to me

The issue with Charlie remains the lack of post contact metres, line breaks etc so that is going to count against him in reality. Tiny May just has that leg drive, tackle busting ability, gets thru the line that Charlie simply doesn’t have. Sadly we’ve all been craving evidence of his speed in open country but probably thru no fault of his own we never seem able to create opportunities for him from distance. He had one glorious opportunity on the weekend against the Dogs which sadly he didn’t take.

 

[Iamback]

The issue with Charlie remains the lack of post contact metres, line breaks etc so that is going to count against him in reality. Tiny May just has that leg drive, tackle busting ability, gets thru the line that Charlie simply doesn’t have. Sadly we’ve all been craving evidence of his speed in open country but probably thru no fault of his own we never seem able to create opportunities for him from distance. He had one glorious opportunity on the weekend against the Dogs which sadly he didn’t take.

In recent years we are at our best with big wingers getting the sets off well. I still think that is how we are best

 

[Munky]

Calling Yeo plod is blasphemy.

He was a rep winger before Ivan's second stint!

 

[Kilkenny]

In recent years we are at our best with big wingers getting the sets off well. I still think that is how we are best

DWZ and Josh Mansour were very good at it.

Brian To‘o has been outstanding in that regard hence his selection for the Blues in 2021.

Taylan May while not big in stature or size is a metre eater bringing the ball back.

I said it last season, Westy expressed the same view not so long ago, the reality is Charlie‘s career is heading in the same direction as Bevan French. Its kinda sad but the reality is he probably has a short life span in the NRL given his size he just can’t offer what other quality NRL wingers do.

Bevan French scored 40 tries in almost as many games in his first two breakout seasons in the NRL but was doomed because he couldn’t deliver what at the end of the day was more important to the overall game plan and as you say is getting the sets off to a good start, go forward, allowing forwards recovery time to get back in reasonable field position.

 

[snickers007]

The issue with Charlie remains the lack of post contact metres, line breaks etc so that is going to count against him in reality. Tiny May just has that leg drive, tackle busting ability, gets thru the line that Charlie simply doesn’t have. Sadly we’ve all been craving evidence of his speed in open country but probably thru no fault of his own we never seem able to create opportunities for him from distance. He had one glorious opportunity on the weekend against the Dogs which sadly he didn’t take.

Staines Post Contact Metre Ratio is better than May. Across this season 39% of Staines total metres have been PCM compared to 33% for May.

In terms of raw PCM, yeah May is ahead by 4m per game, but he's also taking an extra 5 runs per game, making the difference negligible.

The narrative that Staines has no leg drive is false.

Our left edge gets way more attacking opportunies than our right, which increases the number of line breaks, tries etc. May also has the benefit of playing outside a second rower who can pass and offload.


Having said that, I'm not delusional and I think once To'o is fit, he'll be moved to the right wing at Staines expense. And it will be very interesting to see the comparison and contrast in stats.

 

[Iamback]

DWZ and Josh Mansour were very good at it.

Brian To‘o has been outstanding in that regard hence his selection for the Blues in 2021.

Taylan May while not big in stature or size is a metre eater bringing the ball back.

I said it last season, Westy expressed the same view not so long ago, the reality is Charlie‘s career is heading in the same direction as Bevan French. Its kinda sad but the reality is he probably has a short life span in the NRL given his size he just can’t offer what other quality NRL wingers do.

Bevan French scored 40 tries in almost as many games in his first two breakout seasons in the NRL but was doomed because he couldn’t deliver what at the end of the day was more important to the overall game plan and as you say is getting the sets off to a good start, go forward, allowing forwards recovery time to get back in reasonable field position.

Jason Saab at Manly will have the same issue so it isn't just a size thing

 

[DinkyDi]

Even if it means naming a weaker team??

That makes little sense to me

Did I say anything about making the team weaker? I am sure that Ivan, and co. knows more than what we do. the team?

 

[Kilkenny]

Staines Post Contact Metre Ratio is better than May. Across this season 39% of Staines total metres have been PCM compared to 33% for May.

In terms of raw PCM, yeah May is ahead by 4m per game, but he's also taking an extra 5 runs per game, making the difference negligible.

The narrative that Staines has no leg drive is false.

Our left edge gets way more attacking opportunies than our right, which increases the number of line breaks, tries etc. May also has the benefit of playing outside a second rower who can pass and offload.


Having said that, I'm not delusional and I think once To'o is fit, he'll be moved to the right wing at Staines expense. And it will be very interesting to see the comparison and contrast in stats.

Mate I only ever call it as I see it. I don’t know where you guys unearth all these stats, I just watch our games. Call it as I see it. If I’m inclined after a game I occasionally click on fox sports, nrl website just to see the game stats but other than than I wouldn’t know where to look for the in depth stats some of you guys spew out.

 

[Luke Bowden]

Did I say anything about making the team weaker? I am sure that Ivan, and co. knows more than what we do. the team?

Thankfully

 

[Kilkenny]

Jason Saab at Manly will have the same issue so it isn't just a size thing

I’m not sure about this season, but last year I got rather tired of seeing him running for half or full length field of tries. We’ve only ever seen Charlie score most of his tries inside our attacking 20. I crave for the day when we actually see him in open space, running 40, 50 or the length just to see if he is actually a speed merchant.

I should qualify this by saying in Charlie’s defence I don’t think we have ever created too many opportunities for him to show his speed.

 

[Iamback]

I’m not sure about this season, but last year I got rather tired of seeing him running for half or full length field of tries. We’ve only ever seen Charlie score most of his tries inside our attacking 20. I crave for the day when we actually see him in open space, running 40, 50 or the length just to see if he is actually a speed merchant.

I should qualify this by saying in Charlie’s defence I don’t think we have ever created too many opportunities for him to show his speed.

Ave 9 runs a game